3D printer for space

[sanman]

Yea Rapatan has been working on that page for years now.  IMHO it's not going to come of anything, but love to see the work.

Well, why do you say nothing will come of it? I'd like to understand what the fundamental roadblock is. If this stuff like Makerbot, RepRap, and all these other new cheapster 3D printers are coming out, then what's the fundamental limitation that keeps Electron Beam Melting away from the masses?

http://forums.reprap.org/list.php?215

http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?215,81209

http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?215,141655

When it came to building cheaper rocket engines, people said the turbopump was the most difficult expense. What are the most cost-prohibitive components in an Electron Beam Melting printer apparatus? What are the key challenges and obstacles to lowering the costs?

[sanman]

Actually, I was thinking that Electron Beam Melting 3D printers could be used to make very large metal parts on the Moon, because this could be done openly in the lunar vacuum.

Anyway, here's a video of a small plane made with 3D printing:

[SpacexULA]

Well, why do you say nothing will come of it? I'd like to understand what the fundamental roadblock is. If this stuff like Makerbot, RepRap, and all these other new cheapster 3D printers are coming out, then what's the fundamental limitation that keeps Electron Beam Melting away from the masses?

http://forums.reprap.org/list.php?215

http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?215,81209

http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?215,141655

When it came to building cheaper rocket engines, people said the turbopump was the most difficult expense. What are the most cost-prohibitive components in an Electron Beam Melting printer apparatus? What are the key challenges and obstacles to lowering the costs?

Part of it is that metal sintering is elementally a harder nut to crack and get high quality prints than simple plastic FDM, and part of it is I have been dealing with this guy for years now.

To be honest FDM has only been delayed to market for low end 3d printers by patents, the RepRap and Makerbots you see now could have fully been in the market 15 years ago if patents had not stopped them. 

Building a top of the line FDM 3d printer for around $800 is easy, laser sintering is going to be challenging to do for less than $5k, and at that price point just for the hardware, it's right out of the realm of most tinkerers.

[sanman]

Well, photocopiers are pretty expensive and sophisticated equipment too, but they're all over the place. What cannot be bought can be leased.

Heavy equipment like CNC lathes, etc are also expensive, and yet they're affordable to machine shops and small businesses. One day the EBM printer could join the small workshop alongside these other machines, if not replacing them outright.

Another thing in the news recently, was the project by some Dutch artist to create a large house using a big 3D printer:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/22/tech/innovation/building-3-d-printer/index.html

I can't help but notice how existing concrete boom pump technology already looks very similar to the promised future large 3D printers which will one day print out houses or lunar bases. This technology has been around for over a half-century. All it needs is just a printhead with trowel, and more precise control systems to become a full-fledged 3D mega-printer.

[sanman]

Here's something else I came across, in regards to printing composite parts through the FDM additive method:

http://sbir.gsfc.nasa.gov/SBIR/abstracts/11/sttr/phase1/STTR-11-1-T9.01-9764.html

http://www.designnews.com/author.asp?section_id=1392&doc_id=248401&dfpPParams=ind_183,industry_auto,industry_aero,bid_27,aid_248401&dfpLayout=blog

FDM is already used for the easy simple stuff, so why not try to extend it to more complex materials? The elimination of autoclaving could make things much easier.

[robertross]

Check this out:

http://www.canadianmanufacturing.com/design-engineering/cad-cam/architecture-firm-esa-to-explore-3d-printing-a-moon-base-93754

[Solman]

Thanks for posting that link - its also discussed on the "Missions to the Moon" thread but the articles linked there don't mention an inflated dome IIRC for scaffolding.
In thinking about this I wonder why not just cover the inflated dome that serves for scaffolding with loose regolith? The problem for an air filled  Lunar dome is holding it down not supporting it after all. If desired a thin sintered layer could cover the surface of the loose regolith layer but with no rain or atmosphere even that isn't needed I suppose.
 
 
 

[A_M_Swallow]

Thanks for posting that link - its also discussed on the "Missions to the Moon" thread but the articles linked there don't mention an inflated dome IIRC for scaffolding.
In thinking about this I wonder why not just cover the inflated dome that serves for scaffolding with loose regolith? The problem for an air filled  Lunar dome is holding it down not supporting it after all. If desired a thin sintered layer could cover the surface of the loose regolith layer but with no rain or atmosphere even that isn't needed I suppose.

A thick layer of regolith can be used as a barrier against radiation.

[Solman]

Thanks for posting that link - its also discussed on the "Missions to the Moon" thread but the articles linked there don't mention an inflated dome IIRC for scaffolding.
In thinking about this I wonder why not just cover the inflated dome that serves for scaffolding with loose regolith? The problem for an air filled  Lunar dome is holding it down not supporting it after all. If desired a thin sintered layer could cover the surface of the loose regolith layer but with no rain or atmosphere even that isn't needed I suppose.

A thick layer of regolith can be used as a barrier against radiation.

So it holds the dome down and protects occupants from radiation so why do you need any 3D printing?
 Might be useful for upper floors and partition walls but as these would be in a shirtsleeve environment the astronauts could do the assembly.
 Sintered blocks are a possibility for the interior and would be easier than making a type of salt and magnesium oxide by ISRU IMO.

[A_M_Swallow]

Thanks for posting that link - its also discussed on the "Missions to the Moon" thread but the articles linked there don't mention an inflated dome IIRC for scaffolding.
In thinking about this I wonder why not just cover the inflated dome that serves for scaffolding with loose regolith? The problem for an air filled  Lunar dome is holding it down not supporting it after all. If desired a thin sintered layer could cover the surface of the loose regolith layer but with no rain or atmosphere even that isn't needed I suppose.

A thick layer of regolith can be used as a barrier against radiation.

So it holds the dome down and protects occupants from radiation so why do you need any 3D printing?
 Might be useful for upper floors and partition walls but as these would be in a shirtsleeve environment the astronauts could do the assembly.
 Sintered blocks are a possibility for the interior and would be easier than making a type of salt and magnesium oxide by ISRU IMO.

The buildings need to be airtight so a printer or a sinterer are need to glue the dust particles together.

[Tass]

The buildings need to be airtight so a printer or a sinterer are need to glue the dust particles together.

You'd probably still need a plastic liner.

[sanman]

Inflatable dome inside a lava tube or cavern would be nicest and easiest, imho.

Meanwhile, here's another website for Contour Crafting which I just came across - lots to read there:

http://rs20.abstractdns.com/~contourc/contourcrafting/

It would be neat if robots could be used on their own to construct infrastructure on the Moon in advance of any human arrival. The Russians have said they'd like to establish a robot base on the Moon, and maybe that's the most sensible approach, since with robots you're not as dependent on follow-through as you are with human beings in the loop.

[Robert Thompson]

http://www.space-travel.com/reports/The_Future_of_Exploration_Starts_With_3D_Printing_999.html
The Future of Exploration Starts With 3-D Printing by Bill Hubscher for Marshall Space Flight Center Huntsville AL (SPX) Mar 26, 2013

... "Traditionally, the forming, machining and welding of this baffle would take nine to ten months," said Andy Hardin, SLS subsystem manager for liquid engines.

"After creating the part using computer-aided design, we built this baffle with SLM in nine days, obviously significant time and cost savings. The lack of a traditional weld also makes this part more structurally sound." ...

[Robert Thompson]

Skylar Tibbits: The emergence of "4D printing"

[ClaytonBirchenough]

Thinking about the title for a little, I realized (kind of I think?) how 3d printing could be applicable to space activities/exploration. You could send up a block of plastic that the 3d printers use, and print large structures that could not be launched from Earth because of the restraints on the sise of PLFs. Not sure how this might apply, but seems like it could fit in somehow to space activities/exploration. Sorry, got excited for a minute 

[sanman]

Apparently posting to the internet can violate ITAR, so if you ever come up with any improved rocket technology, then don't post it online:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/05/09/state-department-demands-takedown-of-3d-printable-gun-for-possible-export-control-violation/

[QuantumG]

1. duh
2. offtopic

Edit: actually, not necessarily duh, as ITAR doesn't actually cover non-repeating weapons! (at least not at this caliber) But still offtopic

[Blackstar]

Thinking about the title for a little, I realized (kind of I think?) how 3d printing could be applicable to space activities/exploration. You could send up a block of plastic that the 3d printers use, and print large structures that could not be launched from Earth because of the restraints on the sise of PLFs. Not sure how this might apply, but seems like it could fit in somehow to space activities/exploration. Sorry, got excited for a minute 

Don't get over-excited (that's one of the problems with 3D printing--everybody gets woozy thinking about it and loses all sense of reality).

But there are potential benefits in ways that you would not immediately expect. For example, what if you built a satellite and then instead of designing the most delicate structures (like solar arrays) to be able to withstand the rigors of launch, you simply printed them in space and had the spacecraft rendezvous with the printer/factory? How would that affect your mass requirements?

Interesting, no? Maybe somebody should look into these issues.

[go4mars]

For example, what if you built a satellite and then instead of designing the most delicate structures (like solar arrays) to be able to withstand the rigors of launch, you simply printed them in space and had the spacecraft rendezvous with the printer/factory? How would that affect your mass requirements?

That's a great idea.  It makes wonder if solar sails and reflectors would be easier and lighter to "make" than to unpack as well.  Even akward structures like long trusses or hoop-ribs might benefit.            Really really long members for laser-sintered radio antennas.   
 
Lordy, maybe even giant fresnel lenses for in-space telescopes! 

[brtbrt]

For example, what if you built a satellite and then instead of designing the most delicate structures (like solar arrays) to be able to withstand the rigors of launch, you simply printed them in space and had the spacecraft rendezvous with the printer/factory? How would that affect your mass requirements?

That's a great idea.  It makes wonder if solar sails and reflectors would be easier and lighter to "make" than to unpack as well.  Even akward structures like long trusses or hoop-ribs might benefit.            Really really long members for laser-sintered radio antennas.   
 
Lordy, maybe even giant fresnel lenses for in-space telescopes! 

I agree, large, sparse structures would match well with certain 3D printer topologies. But laser sintering is probably not a technology that's likely to be used soon - it relies on the powder to stay in the powder bed, which needs at least a small force to keep it down.

My guess is that either some form of filament deposition might work better.

An interesting question will be what to do with all the heat coming out of the melt zone, especially for metal deposition. Hard to dissipate that much heat in vacuum.