Off-the-wall ideas for things to do with Bigelow modules (and inflatable walls)

[Garrett]

Per the suggestion of Neilh, I've opened this topic on off-the-wall ideas for things to do with Bigelow modules and inflatable walls in general.

I originally enquired whether it would be feasible to envelop an asteroid with a large Bigelow style module, with the aim of allowing astronauts to work in a short sleeve environment:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20044.msg580201#msg580201

Neilh's off-the-wall idea was to build around an asteroid with inflatable module type material.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20044.msg580372#msg580372

Apart from building space hotels, what else can one do with an inflatable module? I've seen a thread on an inflatable reentry vehicle, so any suggestions on that subject should probably go in that thread.

Cheers,

[Downix]

If I had the money, I'd use them for a space refinery, processing asteroids into base metals.

[space_man]

With inflatable modules, I would build greenhouses for growing food on various moons of our solar system (phobos, titan, etc...)

[RanulfC]

Bigelow has proposed the "off-the-wall-idea" of using his modules for building planetary bases as well as space-based use

Anyone have any idea how "insulative" the materials are? I'd thought of maybe using the material sucked down to vacuum with the "standard" inflation layers having an argon gas fill, (just enough to seperate the layers) or aerogel and using the material as propellant tank insulation.
It would then get "filled" out properly on-orbit as debris armor AND insulation...
(And of course making the original "tankage" capable of being used as habitation space )

Randy

[Jim]

Neilh's off-the-wall idea was to build around an asteroid with inflatable module type material.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20044.msg580372#msg580372

Not really feasible with a Bigelow module.  The backbone of the module is the center truss section.

[Garrett]

Neilh's off-the-wall idea was to build around an asteroid with inflatable module type material.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20044.msg580372#msg580372

Not really feasible with a Bigelow module.  The backbone of the module is the center truss section.

Hmmm, that may create a slight problem 
Thank's for pointing that out!

[TOG]

Neilh's off-the-wall idea was to build around an asteroid with inflatable module type material.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20044.msg580372#msg580372

Not really feasible with a Bigelow module.  The backbone of the module is the center truss section.

Hmmm, that may create a slight problem 
Thank's for pointing that out!

Garrett - Don't give up on it quite so fast.  Maybe there is a way:

            What if you use the asteroid AS the backbone?  Deliver the inflatable module in two parts.  Plant the connection point of one half on one side of the asteroid, and plant the other on the opposite side.  Have the inflatable material drape over the surface and meet up with its opponent at the half way point.  Attach the two halves- sealing them as you follow the seam, then go to one of the two ready made "ports" and start filling with the gas of choice.

I got there by wondering to myself, how do you get an asteroid into an inflatable habitat?  Any other options?

[aero]

Not to put to fine a point on it, but why not just make a big bag with a drawstring. Have the top rolled down all the way, put it top down on the asteroid then unroll it and pull the drawstring tight. Seal it. The asteroid is inside, inflate the bag, go inside and erect the previously placed back bones or ribs. After the bag is sealed you can do most of the work in shirtsleeves.

Actually, wouldn't it be possible to plant some anchors in the asteroid with cables attached, then as you unroll the bag, attach the cables to the bag. Once the bag is inflated, the cables will be in tension and serve to transfer forces to the asteroid, which is now your backbone. At least for a solid rock. Might not work for a rubble pile without reinforcement of the asteroid. If the bag is double or multi-walled, then you could probably unroll it just by putting gas pressure between the walls. Probably need to anchor the bottom of the bag to the asteroid though, else the pressure of unrolling might catch the asteroid and send it off someplace else.

NOTE: The drawstring part is just conceptual. Overlapping flaps might work better, and I bet there are a lot of other ways to seal a bag, including zippers. A double set of closures could allow for an over sized airlock if you have any use for it.

[Commander Keen]

If an inflatable could be used as a space station somewhere (lunar orbit, LaGrange point, etc.) how hard would it be to design one that rotates to create artificial gravity.  I was thinking a design like the station like in the movie 2001.  It seem it would be incredibly difficult to say the least.

The only thing I worry about with inflatable habs is the stability.  Will it flex, etc like a balloon?  I guess I am not sure of its stiffness?

Nonetheless a very creative idea to say the least...

[neilh]

A related question: Is the goal to have the asteroid-containing interior breathable, or simply pressurized? Some consequences of each:

Breathable: No breathing apparatus required, but I suspect it won't take much to get asteroid dust suspended in the air, making it impossible to breath without some sort of mask. You'd also need to worry about oxygen's effect on whatever you're trying to work with or mine.

Non-breathable pressurized (perhaps with nitrogen?): Potential for shirtsleeves operation while wearing a breathing apparatus.

[neilh]

Speaking of off-the-wall ideas, I don't think there's ever been an update about the results of this planned experiment from back in 2007:

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/02/22/65477.aspx

Q: I’ll definitely return to that in a second, but I did want to ask you about your approach to the base and the regolith insulation. Someone coming in from the outside might say, “Well, you just take one of those inflatable modules and you plunk that down on the lunar surface and pile moon dirt around it. It doesn’t sound that complicated.” Is the devil in the details, or is there some radically different way in which Bigelow would approach that challenge?

A: Yes, there’s a significant difference, because both of those are very significant challenges.

The regolith is made up of very, very fine, talcum-powder-type of glass particles. As you probably know, these particles are a significant abrasive, and they are able to penetrate the smallest of joints in any moving system. So what you don’t want to have, if possible, is a reliance on any moving systems to deploy that material.

...

So our solution is something entirely different, involving a method where no machinery actually is used. We’re going to be trying the method this year, using one of our steel simulators as a prototype, because it’s the size of vessel that mimics the full-scale module. We’re actually going to try in Las Vegas to apply our solution for covering up a full-scale module, involving only two people, with a depth of soil on the crown of at least 2 or 3 feet. We’ll give you more on this later as we progress with this experiment.

Q: You don’t want to go into detail on the particular strategy involved?

A: Well, part of it is because we would prefer to actually implement our approach first. The other part is that I don’t have a lot of time left right now to explain it. It would take me probably 15 minutes to describe the process to you. … Maybe another time.

I never saw more information about it, but I guessed it might involve temporarily making the habitat more dense than the regolith (by having it deflated and/or filling it with something dense) and then vibrating it until it sunk to a sufficient depth. Any other ideas on how you might bury a Bigelow module in regolith? What's known about the density of lunar regolith?

[PMN1]

Major use of inflatables here.....

http://www.nss.org/settlement/nasa/Contest/Results/2009/ASTEN.pdf

[chrisking0997]

water or fuel tanks, either for stations or a depot.  Somehow use their inflation/deflation process to fill or drain the tanks as needed (suction during inflation for filling, pressure during deflation for offload).

[pathfinder_01]

Change the light bulbs to red lights and open the first red light district in space.

Put a disco ball in the middle and some bad 70ies décor and open a disco on orbit.

Install granite counter tops, hard wood flooring, and stainless steel appliances and film episodes for HGTV.

Lots of things you can do with  one.

[khallow]

One use I can see for an inflatable structure is simply something to keep loose parts from floating away. You need enough internal pressure to keep the structure rigid, maybe 1 PSI of a chemically neutral gas like nitrogen or argon (that is, air with the oxygen removed) would be enough. For example, things like welding or spraying adhesive have a tendency to generate a lot of loose material.

[alexterrell]

Don't get carried away with Bigelow modules.

Yes, they're great for quick pop up in space, where no ISRU is available.

The moment you can handle regolith (Asteroid, Moon, Phobos etc) they are extravagant. With regolith for shielding a 25m diameter dome can be got into 20 tons of material. The equivalent Bigelow design would mass well over a 100 tons.

Most of the Bigelow mass is designed to stop micro meteorites and provide thermal insulation. Regolith can do that even better.

Now, for inflatable walls!
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20684.msg554021#msg554021

[KelvinZero]

I have no idea what this is actually for.. but if you had a really big balloon full of water in space, and it was spinning just a little bit, I guess any air would sit in a sort of wobbly tube down its axis. Just imagine swimming down something like that, or for that matter since the gravity is so low, you could probably run down it.

[Sparky]

Launch a Bigelow-derived module on SLS with a core that would be nearly the whole 8.4 meters. Have a very large airlock at one end that would take up most of the end. Create a hangar for reusable landers and in-space vehicles to repaired and maintained in a shirtsleeve environment.

[Patchouli]

With Bigelow's inflatable technology and the large payload of SLS I'd want to launch one of these.
The wheel section would be inflatable and maybe have an internal frame that can be assembled once it's in orbit while the core with be conventional.

[mr. mark]

Heck, if all else fails Sundancer would make one heck of a bounce house!