Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION  (Read 672812 times)

Offline jacqmans

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #220 on: 10/02/2012 04:28 pm »
Yea sure, and why was it possible to see everything inside the hangar in July 2011, even for foreign media, and get close to the Falcon rocket, and photograph everything you would like ..... And now they say we are not welcome anymore...that is the strange part of it....

Have you contacted anyone about this? To the effect of why "Social media users selected to attend the SpaceX launch will be given the same access as journalists in an effort to align the access and experience of social media representatives with those of traditional media." when clearly social media are allowed to be non-U.S. AND be allowed on site:
"International social media users without U.S. citizenship must apply for credentials to cover the prelaunch and launch activities by Wednesday, Sept 26. "


http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2012/sep/HQ_12-336_Social_Media_Accred.html

Complaining about it here won't change anything.

I do not think social media people will go to the pad for remote camera set up.... or even get close to the rocket at all.... but if they do I'm going to complaine about it  ;D
Jacques :-)

Offline ugordan

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #221 on: 10/02/2012 04:38 pm »
You haven't really answered my question and it's no longer clear to me what you're complaining about, either. Are you dissatisfied with the (in)ability to see or photograph hardware?

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #222 on: 10/02/2012 05:06 pm »
With any security matter it is frequently worth while checking to see if permission has to come from the Pentagon.  If so, does SpaceX know who to contact and the correct procedure?

ULA launches classified payloads so the DOD security and vetting people will have contacted them.

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #223 on: 10/02/2012 05:35 pm »
So if your a US citizen who works for a foreign media outlet, you can attend?

See, problem solved, hire american reporters/photographers and tell them Ms. Lohan will be on the pad.
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Offline jacqmans

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #224 on: 10/02/2012 06:50 pm »
You haven't really answered my question and it's no longer clear to me what you're complaining about, either. Are you dissatisfied with the (in)ability to see or photograph hardware?

My complaint is that, I, (as media from Europe) can not see (or photograph) the Falcon rocket on the launch pad, and can not set up a remote camera for launch.... US media can...

What is the difference between US media and World media (other then that I'm born outside the USA..  (In other words if I give my camera's to a US reporter he can take them and shoot the images, and then return the camera to me... And then I use the images...)

What would be the difference if I took those images myself ???  that is the point I'm trying to make here... it makes no sense to rule out foreign media...if you can swap camera's...

And to be clear, for any Air Force launch, Delta or Atlas, (a DOD mission or a commercial mission) I'm welcome at CCAFS, I get accreditation, can walk around the Rocket, set up a remote camera etc... (I can even drive my own car on site, something I can not do at KSC anymore, but that is a whole other story).....

So the question is WHY is SpaceX doing this ?  (As said before in July 2011 foreing media was welcome to photograph their rocket and take a look around their hangar at LC-41).

So why rule out Foreing media now ?? What did we do  :o  or did not do  :-X
« Last Edit: 10/02/2012 06:52 pm by jacqmans »
Jacques :-)

Offline Prober

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #225 on: 10/02/2012 06:58 pm »
Can we please change this train of thought?

Keep in mind that 9/11 changed everything.

Also as I have said before this is "commercial" they can do most of what they wish.

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Offline jacqmans

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #226 on: 10/02/2012 07:09 pm »
Can we please change this train of thought?

NO, it is a discussion thread, I'm intrested to read what others think...but ok I know 99% of you think with American glasses on...

Quote
Keep in mind that 9/11 changed everything.


That was 11 year ago... I think it is time to change again..(and what has 9/11 to do with me taking photos of a Falcon Rocket ???)

Quote
Also as I have said before this is "commercial" they can do most of what they wish.

You are right about that, but that does not mean they do the right thing....

Jacques


« Last Edit: 10/02/2012 07:54 pm by jacqmans »
Jacques :-)

Offline wolfpack

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #227 on: 10/02/2012 07:24 pm »
My complaint is that, I, (as media from Europe) can not see (or photograph) the Falcon rocket on the launch pad, and can not set up a remote camera for launch.... US media can...

What is the difference between US media and World media (other then that I'm born outside the USA..  (In other words if I give my camera's to a US reporter he can take them and shoot the images, and then return the camera to me... And then I use the images...)

What would be the difference if I took those images myself ???  that is the point I'm trying to make here... it makes no sense to rule out foreign media...if you can swap camera's...

And to be clear, for any Air Force launch, Delta or Atlas, (a DOD mission or a commercial mission) I'm welcome at CCAFS, I get accreditation, can walk around the Rocket, set up a remote camera etc... (I can even drive my own car on site, something I can not do at KSC anymore, but that is a whole other story).....

So the question is WHY is SpaceX doing this ?  (As said before in July 2011 foreing media was welcome to photograph their rocket and take a look around their hangar at LC-41).

So why rule out Foreing media now ?? What did we do  :o  or did not do  :-X

Maybe the customer requested it? CRS works under different rules than COTS? Just a guess.

Offline jacqmans

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #228 on: 10/02/2012 07:26 pm »


Maybe the customer requested it? CRS works under different rules than COTS? Just a guess.

No the last launch (early this year) it was the same, but what has the customer has to do with the rocket being photographed ???
Jacques :-)

Offline pippin

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #229 on: 10/02/2012 07:49 pm »
Keep in mind that 9/11 changed everything.

No way, this is simple, ordinary protectionism that has nothing to do with security.
The US - other than what they claim - have always been good at that, just look at the rules for carmakers and stuff like that.
If you can get an advantage for US media guys, do it.

Offline Lars_J

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #230 on: 10/02/2012 07:53 pm »
What is the difference between US media and World media ?
...
So why rule out Foreing media now ?? What did we do  :o  or did not do  :-X

Are you really trying to troll, or are you not getting it?

Presumably they don't want to deal with background checks for non-US citizens. It may not be for just ITAR or national security reasons, it could also be for corporate espionage reasons. (Harder to verify your identity)

But it doesn't matter - It is their rocket, their facility, their rules.

The outrage you feel is just bizarre to me, at it has nothing to do with "American blinders". I would not *expect* an American to have full access at a Russian pad, nor at a European pad. Does it happen anyway on occasion? Sure, and that's great. But your sense of entitlement is surprising.

Offline pippin

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #231 on: 10/02/2012 07:55 pm »
That's nonsense. If you give access to media, what's the difference where the media come from? Do you have any way to limit what a US media rep writes after the visit?

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #232 on: 10/02/2012 07:58 pm »
Can we please change this train of thought?

NO, it is a discussion thread, I'm intrested to read what others think...but ok I know 99% of you think with American glasses on......
I think it's worthwhile for you to ask the question!

You should seriously see if you can ask SpaceX for details, see if you can go as a "social media" person.

Wishing you all the luck.
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Offline jacqmans

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #233 on: 10/02/2012 08:07 pm »

Are you really trying to troll, or are you not getting it?
   I think I do not get it then...But I think you do NOT get it.....

Quote
Presumably they don't want to deal with background checks for non-US citizens. It may not be for just ITAR or national security reasons, it could also be for corporate espionage reasons. (Harder to verify your identity)

NASA does the media accreditation not SpaceX, and trust me the background checks are hard for foreign media.... and what is there to espionage for me what a US media guy can do (espionage) also.... :P


Quote
But it doesn't matter - It is their rocket, their facility, their rules.

Yes you are right about that  :-X

Quote
The outrage you feel is just bizarre to me, at it has nothing to do with "American blinders". I would not *expect* an American to have full access at a Russian pad, nor at a European pad. Does it happen anyway on occasion? Sure, and that's great. But your sense of entitlement is surprising.

It has everything to do with "Amarican blinders" and that funny ITAR rule you have.... If you look at photos of Soyuz launches you can see that (world, USA) media have the same access as Russian media, and even better then they have in the USA....
« Last Edit: 10/02/2012 08:09 pm by jacqmans »
Jacques :-)

Offline tigerade

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #234 on: 10/02/2012 08:16 pm »
Jacques, your best bet is to send an email to [email protected] and ask if they can make any accommodation for you.

Offline Lars_J

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #235 on: 10/02/2012 08:19 pm »
The outrage you feel is just bizarre to me, at it has nothing to do with "American blinders". I would not *expect* an American to have full access at a Russian pad, nor at a European pad. Does it happen anyway on occasion? Sure, and that's great. But your sense of entitlement is surprising.

It has everything to do with "Amarican blinders" and that funny ITAR rule you have.... If you look at photos of Soyuz launches you can see that (world, USA) media have the same access as Russian media, and even better then they have in the USA....

You miss my point. It is great when Americans have access there, and Europeans have access here, wonderful. My point is that where and when such access is offered it is should be graciously received, and not EXPECTED or DEMANDED. It is a bonus, a perk. But here you are throwing a fit about it. (Or so it seems)

Offline Comga

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #236 on: 10/02/2012 09:28 pm »
Quote
Keep in mind that 9/11 changed everything.

That was 11 year ago... I think it is time to change again..

Whether it is time to change is not the question.  Things have changed, but for the worse, getting tighter, not looser.

Quote
Quote
Also as I have said before this is "commercial" they can do most of what they wish.

You are right about that, but that does not mean they do the right thing....
Jacques

I think that is not right.  Being commercial means they have liability, particularly for ITAR compliance.  If the Air Force allows access to set up remote cameras, that's the decision.  The State Department is not going to threaten to prosecute anyone for an ITAR violation.  A company is always under implied threat.  Therefore the most cautious approach is the least debatable and the highest benefit/cost ratio.
« Last Edit: 10/02/2012 09:29 pm by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline Prober

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #237 on: 10/02/2012 09:48 pm »

Are you really trying to troll, or are you not getting it?
   I think I do not get it then...But I think you do NOT get it.....

Quote
Presumably they don't want to deal with background checks for non-US citizens. It may not be for just ITAR or national security reasons, it could also be for corporate espionage reasons. (Harder to verify your identity)

NASA does the media accreditation not SpaceX, and trust me the background checks are hard for foreign media.... and what is there to espionage for me what a US media guy can do (espionage) also.... :P


Quote
But it doesn't matter - It is their rocket, their facility, their rules.

Yes you are right about that  :-X

Quote
The outrage you feel is just bizarre to me, at it has nothing to do with "American blinders". I would not *expect* an American to have full access at a Russian pad, nor at a European pad. Does it happen anyway on occasion? Sure, and that's great. But your sense of entitlement is surprising.

It has everything to do with "Amarican blinders" and that funny ITAR rule you have.... If you look at photos of Soyuz launches you can see that (world, USA) media have the same access as Russian media, and even better then they have in the USA....

Now your going off the wall.    You know very well Russia doesn’t broadcast “live” their launches from  Pleseck.   

Even our NRO launches can be watched.  What more do you want?
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Offline pippin

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #238 on: 10/02/2012 10:45 pm »
Um... he did already say what more he wants, that's what we are talking about here. Not live broadcasts from NRO launches but being able to take his own photos of commercial ISS resupply missions.

Offline simonbp

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #239 on: 10/02/2012 11:42 pm »
The State Department believes there's a difference between US citizens and non-US citizens. That's the difference.

To be clear it's between US persons (including US permanent residents and certain foreign representatives of US organizations) and non-US persons. Explaining this to ditsy HR departments back when I had a Green Card was quite annoying...

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