Author Topic: Current NSF Forum Feedback Thread 2  (Read 169792 times)

Offline ChrisC

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Re: Current NSF Forum Feedback Thread 2
« Reply #400 on: 08/19/2022 09:28 pm »
Do we not have the ability to tag users here, e.g. using @ syntax like @ChrisC ?  I thought we did but maybe I'm thinking of other forums.
PSA #1: EST does NOT mean "Eastern Time".  Use "Eastern" or "ET" instead, all year round, and avoid this common error.  Google "EST vs EDT".
PSA #2: It's and its: know the difference and quietly impress grammar pedants.  Google "angry flower its" .  *** See profile for two more NSF forum tips. ***

Offline woods170

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Re: Current NSF Forum Feedback Thread 2
« Reply #401 on: 09/02/2022 02:47 pm »
Taking this to here, away from the SpaceX section where it originated:

<snip>
But one thing that has become abundantly clear to long-time NSF’ers is that the forum is taking a back seat to the multimedia juggernaut that is the YouTube channel with their tiers of paid monthly memberships. Very often, the live commentators and hosts of the YT streams say things that make it plain they don’t read the forums, or do so only sporadically, while simultaneously referring to things that are posted or hinted at exclusively in the (paid access) Discord server.


The internet evolves, content fragments and we all must adapt or get over it. But none of this is really L2-related.

Emphasis mine.

Exactly. That is the one thing I called out would happen once NSF started using Discord. It is also the one thing Chris said he would not want to happen.
But it is happening anyway. And IMO it is beginning to erode the added value of the forum section.
« Last Edit: 09/02/2022 02:51 pm by woods170 »

Offline Star One

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Re: Current NSF Forum Feedback Thread 2
« Reply #402 on: 09/02/2022 03:36 pm »
Taking this to here, away from the SpaceX section where it originated:

<snip>
But one thing that has become abundantly clear to long-time NSF’ers is that the forum is taking a back seat to the multimedia juggernaut that is the YouTube channel with their tiers of paid monthly memberships. Very often, the live commentators and hosts of the YT streams say things that make it plain they don’t read the forums, or do so only sporadically, while simultaneously referring to things that are posted or hinted at exclusively in the (paid access) Discord server.


The internet evolves, content fragments and we all must adapt or get over it. But none of this is really L2-related.

Emphasis mine.

Exactly. That is the one thing I called out would happen once NSF started using Discord. It is also the one thing Chris said he would not want to happen.
But it is happening anyway. And IMO it is beginning to erode the added value of the forum section.
I’ve heard of Discord but never used it. But it seems to be siphoning content off from a few forums and such like places these days.

Offline woods170

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Re: Current NSF Forum Feedback Thread 2
« Reply #403 on: 09/03/2022 07:41 am »
Taking this to here, away from the SpaceX section where it originated:

<snip>
But one thing that has become abundantly clear to long-time NSF’ers is that the forum is taking a back seat to the multimedia juggernaut that is the YouTube channel with their tiers of paid monthly memberships. Very often, the live commentators and hosts of the YT streams say things that make it plain they don’t read the forums, or do so only sporadically, while simultaneously referring to things that are posted or hinted at exclusively in the (paid access) Discord server.


The internet evolves, content fragments and we all must adapt or get over it. But none of this is really L2-related.

Emphasis mine.

Exactly. That is the one thing I called out would happen once NSF started using Discord. It is also the one thing Chris said he would not want to happen.
But it is happening anyway. And IMO it is beginning to erode the added value of the forum section.
I’ve heard of Discord but never used it. But it seems to be siphoning content off from a few forums and such like places these days.

Yes, it is. Before Discord came into play, every single NSF frontpage article about SLS was based on information first released in L2. Nowadays, quite a few of NSF frontpage articles about SLS are NOT based on information released in L2, but stuff that first appeared on the Discord server. And that goes for other subjects too.
As such, Discord has begun to diminish the added value of L2. And that is IMO not good, given that the L2 subscriptions cover a substantial part of the cost of running and hosting NSF.

Offline chopsticks

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Re: Current NSF Forum Feedback Thread 2
« Reply #404 on: 09/03/2022 02:50 pm »
Yeah, I must say since the YouTube channel started, there has been so much more push towards "support us!" by tiers of membership, merch, superchats, etc. I mean, I appreciate the content, but sometimes it all comes across as being a bit greedy. My 2c.

I also wonder how much the live commentators read these forums.

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Current NSF Forum Feedback Thread 2
« Reply #405 on: 09/03/2022 08:27 pm »
Yeah, I must say since the YouTube channel started, there has been so much more push towards "support us!" by tiers of membership, merch, superchats, etc. I mean, I appreciate the content, but sometimes it all comes across as being a bit greedy. My 2c.

I also wonder how much the live commentators read these forums.
They are using the YouTube provided membership tiering and chat systems and they have to work the YT algorithm to get returns. To provide what they want to stream they have to use the partnership/creatorship programme to provide a broadcast quality channel. Memberships was a progression milestone unlock. Greedy  as you call it or aggressive tactics as I call it is what YouTube wants their creators channels to be. It's all about the various algorithms. Some creators push it to accelerate the ladder climbing while others are more laid back thus they climb the rungs of channel growth and visibility much more slowly. To provide decent broadcast quality videography and audiography in addition to photography is expensive. They have to start somewhere in order to acquire higher quality gear for newer resolutions and technologies. The average person is not aware of the cost of rack units, mic packs and life limited microphones and cabling just to name a few.  I personally do not agree with nor support the current YouTube business model.
« Last Edit: 09/04/2022 02:34 pm by russianhalo117 »

Offline PJ_IN_FL

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Re: Current NSF Forum Feedback Thread 2
« Reply #406 on: 09/05/2022 04:32 pm »
Hello Chris and other Moderators,

Having lurked in the EM Drive Development forum for about 5 years, I enjoyed the discussions on the measurement techniques and challenges, even more than the theoretical discussions, that generally went over this EE's head.

As the forum slowed down considerably over the past two years, I haven't checked in for a while, However, I just did take a look and found the forum has been locked since last November, without any explanation or notice.

Is an update planned to provide closure to the forum topic so future lurkers like myself don't leave puzzled over the sudden halt?

Regards,
PJ in (sunny) FL

Offline mn

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Re: Current NSF Forum Feedback Thread 2
« Reply #407 on: 09/05/2022 04:50 pm »
Taking this to here, away from the SpaceX section where it originated:

<snip>
But one thing that has become abundantly clear to long-time NSF’ers is that the forum is taking a back seat to the multimedia juggernaut that is the YouTube channel with their tiers of paid monthly memberships. Very often, the live commentators and hosts of the YT streams say things that make it plain they don’t read the forums, or do so only sporadically, while simultaneously referring to things that are posted or hinted at exclusively in the (paid access) Discord server.


The internet evolves, content fragments and we all must adapt or get over it. But none of this is really L2-related.

Emphasis mine.

Exactly. That is the one thing I called out would happen once NSF started using Discord. It is also the one thing Chris said he would not want to happen.
But it is happening anyway. And IMO it is beginning to erode the added value of the forum section.

To add to this: a good amount of work was done to make the regular forum mobile friendly to the point that it is usable on my phone and I don't have to use the mobile theme.

But the work is not complete, there are still many issues using the main theme on mobile, and all work was dropped in this regard.

Offline dglow

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Re: Current NSF Forum Feedback Thread 2
« Reply #408 on: 09/06/2022 02:22 pm »
Taking this to here, away from the SpaceX section where it originated:

<snip>
But one thing that has become abundantly clear to long-time NSF’ers is that the forum is taking a back seat to the multimedia juggernaut that is the YouTube channel with their tiers of paid monthly memberships. Very often, the live commentators and hosts of the YT streams say things that make it plain they don’t read the forums, or do so only sporadically, while simultaneously referring to things that are posted or hinted at exclusively in the (paid access) Discord server.


The internet evolves, content fragments and we all must adapt or get over it. But none of this is really L2-related.

Emphasis mine.

Exactly. That is the one thing I called out would happen once NSF started using Discord. It is also the one thing Chris said he would not want to happen.
But it is happening anyway. And IMO it is beginning to erode the added value of the forum section.

To add to this: a good amount of work was done to make the regular forum mobile friendly to the point that it is usable on my phone and I don't have to use the mobile theme.

But the work is not complete, there are still many issues using the main theme on mobile, and all work was dropped in this regard.

Actions speak louder than words, and the quality-of-site improvements’ requests-to-completed ratio is demonstrably one-sided; just read upthread. Painful to admit, but it seems best not to get any hopes up and perhaps just be content that the web fora continue to exist. Recognize that many of the overdue forum improvements long predate the rise of NSF’s YT channel.

It’s easy to see that live coverage is where the focus, viewership, and revenue lies. And good on NSF and its crew for the success in growing the channel as they have.

But the disconnect between the YouTube commentary and information in the fora can be quite jarring. It would seem to benefit all if it were someone’s role to feed information from the fora up to Discord and on-camera crew. Perhaps this is happening. Among the most authoritative on-camera commentary I’ve heard of late has come from Philip Sloss. And surprise, Philip is among the best writers for NSF. Perhaps psloss may serve as a role model for the rest of the streaming crew.
« Last Edit: 09/06/2022 02:23 pm by dglow »

Offline ChrisC

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Re: Current NSF Forum Feedback Thread 2
« Reply #409 on: 09/22/2022 06:34 pm »
Since we don't have a thread to discuss the Youtube live stream infrastructure (discussed here when the McGregor stream launched), I will hereby document the latest:

New 24/7 live stream: Space Coast Live!

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1572709309066219520

Number One answering an obvious question:

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1572718422286286850

Michael Baylor happy:

https://twitter.com/nextspaceflight/status/1572722917775147009

Looking forward to comment from John / Das about the gear (nothing yet in his Twitter feed).
« Last Edit: 09/22/2022 06:36 pm by ChrisC »
PSA #1: EST does NOT mean "Eastern Time".  Use "Eastern" or "ET" instead, all year round, and avoid this common error.  Google "EST vs EDT".
PSA #2: It's and its: know the difference and quietly impress grammar pedants.  Google "angry flower its" .  *** See profile for two more NSF forum tips. ***

Offline Hog

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Re: Current NSF Forum Feedback Thread 2
« Reply #410 on: 09/22/2022 09:50 pm »
Great, 3 tweets per post now.  Talk about forum clutter.
Paul

Offline litton4

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Re: Current NSF Forum Feedback Thread 2
« Reply #411 on: 09/23/2022 08:42 am »
How on earth did you get permission to do this at KSC? or is it just part of the Artemis coverage and will go away when A1 is complete?
Dave Condliffe

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Re: Current NSF Forum Feedback Thread 2
« Reply #412 on: 09/23/2022 02:42 pm »
SIlent removals on this forum are getting very annoying. Especially for content that doesn't break rules, but is merely critical. 
Just my 2c, silent moderation sucks.

Offline Tommyboy

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Re: Current NSF Forum Feedback Thread 2
« Reply #413 on: 09/23/2022 09:53 pm »
SIlent removals on this forum are getting very annoying. Especially for content that doesn't break rules, but is merely critical. 
Just my 2c, silent moderation sucks.
Agreed. I see no problem in simply locking unwanted or derailed threads with a short comment from a moderator, but completely hiding them defeats the purpose. In my opinion locking unwanted threads but keeping them visible is a better way of demonstrating what we do and do not want on this forum than just poi ting at the rules.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Current NSF Forum Feedback Thread 2
« Reply #414 on: 09/24/2022 09:21 am »
There is an ‘under review’ section of the forum that only mods have access to. When a thread particularly goes off the rails - and people report it - it tends to get moved there for more serious editing.

Other urgent things can crop up and threads get forgotten! So much spaceflight news at the moment it can be difficult to keep up with the house keeping.

A couple of threads were restored in the last couple of days (Starship to Mars in 2024 and one on the AvWeek article on SpaceX reusability). Similar thing happened to the Boca Chica property thread a while back. Occasionally threads won’t be restored because they’re judged inappropriate for the forum.

So if there’s a thread that has disappeared and not returned for a bit feel free to ask. It may have just been ‘lost in moderation’.

Online Hamish.Student

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Re: Current NSF Forum Feedback Thread 2
« Reply #415 on: 09/24/2022 11:57 am »
There is an ‘under review’ section of the forum that only mods have access to. When a thread particularly goes off the rails - and people report it - it tends to get moved there for more serious editing.

Other urgent things can crop up and threads get forgotten! So much spaceflight news at the moment it can be difficult to keep up with the house keeping.

A couple of threads were restored in the last couple of days (Starship to Mars in 2024 and one on the AvWeek article on SpaceX reusability). Similar thing happened to the Boca Chica property thread a while back. Occasionally threads won’t be restored because they’re judged inappropriate for the forum.

So if there’s a thread that has disappeared and not returned for a bit feel free to ask. It may have just been ‘lost in moderation’.
 
 
I wasn't talking about threads, but comments. 

I made a comment yesterday replying to Alugobi about the title of a NSF youtube video. It was deleted. My takeaway is that there is a rule against being critical of NSF video titles?

I see these silent removals all the time (Not just my comments), and it is really turning me off being here.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Current NSF Forum Feedback Thread 2
« Reply #416 on: 09/24/2022 12:59 pm »
Thanks for clarifying.

I obviously can’t speak for other mods. I usually only silently delete duplicated content (such as tweets already posted - sometimes in the immediately proceeding post). I would try and message someone if I felt there was an issue with what they said.

AFAIK the basic rule is differences of opinion (politely expressed and explained) are fine, whereas criticising people - as opposed to ideas/viewpoints - are not.

Offline Tommyboy

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Re: Current NSF Forum Feedback Thread 2
« Reply #417 on: 09/24/2022 02:08 pm »
There is an ‘under review’ section of the forum that only mods have access to. When a thread particularly goes off the rails - and people report it - it tends to get moved there for more serious editing.

Other urgent things can crop up and threads get forgotten! So much spaceflight news at the moment it can be difficult to keep up with the house keeping.

A couple of threads were restored in the last couple of days (Starship to Mars in 2024 and one on the AvWeek article on SpaceX reusability). Similar thing happened to the Boca Chica property thread a while back. Occasionally threads won’t be restored because they’re judged inappropriate for the forum.

So if there’s a thread that has disappeared and not returned for a bit feel free to ask. It may have just been ‘lost in moderation’.

Thank you for giving some more insight into the moderation process, If I miss a thread in the future I will ask.

Offline eeergo

Re: Current NSF Forum Feedback Thread 2
« Reply #418 on: 09/25/2022 02:24 pm »
SIlent removals on this forum are getting very annoying. Especially for content that doesn't break rules, but is merely critical. 
Just my 2c, silent moderation sucks.

Oh boy do I hear you. Now even party threads are micromanaged in this way.

Someone's argument is flat out wrong, repeatedly and in several unrelated ways all pointing to the same axe to grind, while his pundits erect castles on top of clouds based on those takes. Professionals call out this behavior. Other people see it too and comment on it. Those in the wrong get rowdy and easily offended, when they're usually vocally critical of anything disturbing their view of things, to the point of intransigence. The¡r messages are tolerated up to the point of insult, whereupon "silent moderation" intervenes (unnecessarily, as there would be value in leaving those messages up for reference, and a word from moderation would probably suffice to nip the chatter on the bud)... and when it does, it also deletes harmless posts from before the discussion got heated, which coincidentally were critical with the wrong takes.
-DaviD-

Offline TALsite

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Re: Current NSF Forum Feedback Thread 2
« Reply #419 on: 09/26/2022 01:23 pm »
Hi all.

This is a message to moderators.
Sometimes in this (very active) section is tricky to find one specifical flight because of the pattern naming missions:
Rocket : Mission Name : Launch Platform : Date : Time

IMO I think it can be a good idea adding something more to some of the patterns, just like this:

MANNED : Rocket : Mission Name : Launch Platform : Date : Time
STARLINK: Rocket : Mission Name : Launch Platform : Date : Time
.
.
.

Thanks


Maybe my post, referred to the "SpaceX Missions Section", lands better here...  :)

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