@ Mulletron["As far as the difference in vacuum energy goes, we've discussed the possibility that there exists a "more negative" energy condition at the small end of the cavity WRT the large end. Less modes fit small end vs large end. No calculations were made."]This is the dispersion relation calculation. The evaluation is made as the difference from one end of the cavity to the other. A "boost" is made to an accelerated frame of reference which eliminates that difference, ie. "v is everywhere close to c" This is just the "trivial" approximation as in:* Hydrodynamics of the Vacuum_0409292v2.pdf " However, the vacuum is a Lorentz invariant medium; it has no rest frame. The appropriate frame for the NFA is determined solely by the initial conditions. If in some frame the NFA conditions are satisfied at t = 0 then they will remain satisfied at all later times. One may trivially take a NFA solution and boost it by a large Lorentz boost to obtain an approximate solution to the original relativistic equations in which v is everywhere close to 1. Only when the range of v values is a significant fraction of unity is it necessary to abandon the NFA and return to the relativistic equations, (4.26, 4.27)."The (static) force then appears as the equivalent "weight" of the photons in the AFR.
Although the flow velocity is nonrelativistic (v ≪ 1), disturbances tend to “propagate” superluminally, at 1/v. Hence, the NFA here is not a normal nonrelativistic reduction. The resulting equations are “anti-Galilean” invariant...This is certainly strange, and takes some getting used to, but one should simply view itas an approximation to the full Lorentz transformations, valid in the stated context. Oneis used to dealing with small objects that move slowly, so that their density distributionsvary rapidly in space, but slowly in time. In the present case one is dealing with largeobjects, slowly varying in space, but relatively rapidly varying in time. This is related tothe fact that the Higgs vacuum, as a spontaneous Bose-Einstein condensate, has almostall its particles in the same quantum state. Small disturbances of this state involve vastnumbers of particles, spread over long distances, all moving nearly in lockstep, so thatthe disturbance varies only slowly with position while the whole collective has the same,relatively rapid time dependence.
The measured power applied to the test article was measured to be 2.6 watts, and the (net) measured thrust was 55.4 micronewtons. With an input power of 2.6 watts, correcting for the quality factor, the predicted thrust is 50 micronewtons. However, since the TE012 mode had numerous other RF modes in very close proximity, it was impractical to repeatedly operate the system in this mode, so the decision was made to evaluate the TM211 modes instead.
approx. +50 micro-Newton (uN) with 50W at 1,937.115 MHz
BTW, we have found that both the TE and TM E&M modes of this copper frustum can produce a thrust signature, but so far the TM modes appear to be the better performer, at least for the few modes we have been able to study to date.
The tapered thruster has a mechanical design such that it will be able to hold pressure at 14.7 pounds per square inch (psi) inside of the thruster body while the thruster is tested at vacuum to preclude glow discharge within the thruster body while it is being operated at high power.
Paul, so last summer it was reported that TE012 was a top performer yet difficult to work with:...The landscape appears to have changed somewhat:Quoteapprox. +50 micro-Newton (uN) with 50W at 1,937.115 MHzQuoteBTW, we have found that both the TE and TM E&M modes of this copper frustum can produce a thrust signature, but so far the TM modes appear to be the better performer, at least for the few modes we have been able to study to date. So a couple questions from this. It appears that TM modes are the top dogs now and at the same time performance has gone down significantly since vacuum testing began. See table below for what I mean. TM212 reported now vs TM211 reported then? Do you have any insight about this? Did the vacuum serve to eliminate artifact thrust signals significantly?
Quote from: Star-Drive on 02/08/2015 03:12 amFolks:If the quantum vacuum is degradable and malleable as we think it should be, then to conserve momentum a QV wake has to be generated in the QV media as a Q-Thruster goes by just like a ship's propeller leaves a disturbance in the water as it goes by. We think that the density of the QV is normally around its cosmological average of 9.1x10^-27 kg/m^3, but its density can be greatly increased by the presence of E&M fields and especially very strong and fast time-varying E&M fields that occur is microwave resonant cavities with large Quality Factors greater than say 1,000, or around elementary charged particles like electrons or protons where the QV density goes up to nuclear mass density as you approach the surface of the particle. Suggest anything? However in the paper we are now trying to get published with no takers so far, we find that the QV density should drop off very rapidly from a high density volume like a proton and in fact it follows the same drop off in density with distance as the Casimir effect does, i.e., 1 / r^4 where r = the distance from the resonant cavity boundary. With that being the case it would be near impossible to detect the QV wake behind a Q-Thruster only generating milliNewtons or Newtons or even in tens of Newtons. So what's to do? To detect a QV wake from a Q-thruster at even short distances from the source we think we will have to use another RF excited resonant cavity in a form of QV parametric amplification that is designed to produce a high density QV state just like in a Q-Thruster, but not to produce thrust. Instead it will be optimized to monitor its time varying QV density as various very weak QV wake fields come in, are amplified and detected, then pass out of it again to go back to the low density QV state once again. This has some interesting implications especially when you finish reading the attached paper from a PhD from Rice University here in Houston.Last topic for the night for me. Someone on this list asked if one could extract energy from the QV. If the QV is GRT space-time, and space-time is the cosmological gravitational field that is created by all the causally connected mass/energy in our section of the universe, then we live in a high pressure sea of gravitational energy. Now if the QV energy state is degradable and locally changeable, then one can posit the possibility of a thermodynamic energy conversion cycle that can extract energy from a pressure difference created in this QV media relative to the QV background average pressure, with a net decrease in this universal gravitational pressure or temperature reflective of the amount of energy so extracted. And try to remember that gravitational energy is negative energy. I'll leave the rest to you folks to draw your own conclusions from what this might mean...Best, Paul MarchThank you for participating in the forum Paul. As far as the paper goes, why not publish publicly and let your peers see it and validate it without the "Star Chamber" reviewers?Regarding the QV wake, does measuring it really matter in terms of validity if tens of Newtons of thrust (or more) are predictably being measured? [Serious question]As to your last few sentences. Woah!!!.......
Folks:If the quantum vacuum is degradable and malleable as we think it should be, then to conserve momentum a QV wake has to be generated in the QV media as a Q-Thruster goes by just like a ship's propeller leaves a disturbance in the water as it goes by. We think that the density of the QV is normally around its cosmological average of 9.1x10^-27 kg/m^3, but its density can be greatly increased by the presence of E&M fields and especially very strong and fast time-varying E&M fields that occur is microwave resonant cavities with large Quality Factors greater than say 1,000, or around elementary charged particles like electrons or protons where the QV density goes up to nuclear mass density as you approach the surface of the particle. Suggest anything? However in the paper we are now trying to get published with no takers so far, we find that the QV density should drop off very rapidly from a high density volume like a proton and in fact it follows the same drop off in density with distance as the Casimir effect does, i.e., 1 / r^4 where r = the distance from the resonant cavity boundary. With that being the case it would be near impossible to detect the QV wake behind a Q-Thruster only generating milliNewtons or Newtons or even in tens of Newtons. So what's to do? To detect a QV wake from a Q-thruster at even short distances from the source we think we will have to use another RF excited resonant cavity in a form of QV parametric amplification that is designed to produce a high density QV state just like in a Q-Thruster, but not to produce thrust. Instead it will be optimized to monitor its time varying QV density as various very weak QV wake fields come in, are amplified and detected, then pass out of it again to go back to the low density QV state once again. This has some interesting implications especially when you finish reading the attached paper from a PhD from Rice University here in Houston.Last topic for the night for me. Someone on this list asked if one could extract energy from the QV. If the QV is GRT space-time, and space-time is the cosmological gravitational field that is created by all the causally connected mass/energy in our section of the universe, then we live in a high pressure sea of gravitational energy. Now if the QV energy state is degradable and locally changeable, then one can posit the possibility of a thermodynamic energy conversion cycle that can extract energy from a pressure difference created in this QV media relative to the QV background average pressure, with a net decrease in this universal gravitational pressure or temperature reflective of the amount of energy so extracted. And try to remember that gravitational energy is negative energy. I'll leave the rest to you folks to draw your own conclusions from what this might mean...Best, Paul March
Rodal:Look at the copper frustum part-2 COMSOL & IR thermal study that I submitted to this group yesterday for an answer to your "Have you experimentally verified that we are using the TM212 mode as predicted by our COMSOL simulations? The answer BTW is yes for the TM212 mode, but no for the TE012 mode, but since COMSOL predicted the right PE loaded resonant frequency for the TE212 mode as verified by my IR camera studies 1 & 2 of the copper frustum, I would assume that it got it right for the TE012 mode as well. In fact I should have provided you my IR study-1 first, so find it attached.Best, Paul M.
Quote from: Star-Drive on 02/08/2015 04:25 pmRodal:Look at the copper frustum part-2 COMSOL & IR thermal study that I submitted to this group yesterday for an answer to your "Have you experimentally verified that we are using the TM212 mode as predicted by our COMSOL simulations? The answer BTW is yes for the TM212 mode, but no for the TE012 mode, but since COMSOL predicted the right PE loaded resonant frequency for the TE212 mode as verified by my IR camera studies 1 & 2 of the copper frustum, I would assume that it got it right for the TE012 mode as well. In fact I should have provided you my IR study-1 first, so find it attached.Best, Paul M. Paul, thank you. This is the first time I see the attached IR study ("Comparison of COMSOL Predictions of Copper Frustrum Heat Dissipation with Dec 30 IR Data") . It was an excellent idea for NASA to conduct this experimental study to verify the TM212 mode. I congratulate you for that because it is of the utmost importance to understand the actual mode shapes being excited. I attach the TM21 mode for a cylindrical cavity for comparison with TM21 in the truncated coneMagnetic field: - - - - - - dashed linesElectric field: _______solid linesPS: Concerning whether COMSOL's discretization predicting TE012 was correct, my attitude (based on conducting experiments and numerical analysis) is always I'm from Missouri "show me" , so I would rather also have experimental verification for that experiment as well. But considering your tight budget constraints, you deserve congratulations for what has been done.
Numerous COMSOL® analysis runs also indicated a strong dependency between thrust magnitude and antenna type, location, orientation, and number of antenna feeds. Slight changes in antenna design and number of feeds changed the COMSOL® thrust prediction by a factor of three which forced our team to implement tighter configuration control protocols during testing to ensure close representation of as built hardware to the analyzed configuration.Finally, our experience with the TE012 mode indicated that it is important to design the RF prototype such that any target mode of operation is as isolated as possible in the frequency domain to help ensure that the system can be effectively tuned manually. This also protects for the ability to implement and use a phase lock loop (PLL) automated frequency control circuit. Due to the slow process commensurate with manual tuning, our future test articles will make use of a PLL whenever practical in order to increase the amount of data that can be collected for a given test article configuration and operating condition during a given amount of test time
the TE012 mode had numerous other RF modes in very close proximity, it was impractical to repeatedly operate the system in this mode, so the decision was made to evaluate the TM211 modes instead.
TM212 mode shape at 1.937188 GHz (Jan 2015 data (with the dielectric))
QuoteTM212 mode shape at 1.937188 GHz (Jan 2015 data (with the dielectric))That comsol plot above says 1946.647. Where's the disconnect between numbers reported I wonder? Also unless comsol is taking into account all the little intricacies like heat expansion, bowing and buckling, simulation won't yield an exact result in reality.
In that slide which is based on the copper frustum cavity running in its TM212 mode with 50W of 1,937.188 MHz RF power applied
I get that, but with a cavity loaded with a dielectric, you can't add up wavelengths trying to satisfy E field requirements like we do with empty waveguides. With the dielectric inserted, there is a dielectric resonator inside the cavity resonator which means the solution is more complicated to figure out by hand.
All:Please note that our first COMSOL analyst who was volunteering his time for this activity while holding down his NASA day job, transcribed the dimensions for the copper frustum PE discs incorrectly when he did the analysis for the TE012 mode. He used 6.0" OD by 1.0" thick whereas the actual dimensions for the PE discs was 6.13" OD by 1.062" thick. The extra volume in the two PE discs lowered the actual observed resonant frequencies for all the resonant modes in the cavity down by about 8-to-10 MHz from COMSOL calculated. When you have to beg for help, one can't be too critical of the results. As to the TM212 mode analysis it was performed by another volunteer, so again I'm not going to complain that he didn't get these calculated frequencies spot on to what was measured with our Agilent Field-Fox Vector Network Analyzer (VNA) measured.Rodal:The next time we look at the TE012 mode I will perform the same IR camera survey I did for the TM212 mode. The reason I didn't do the IR camera survey of the TE012 mode the first time around was that we didn't have that capability during March of 2014 when we ran that test series, since the IR camera didn't come along until the summer of 2014. Best, Paul M.
If I am following the last couple pages correctly at all, it seems that the cavity dimensions relative to the frequency is of supreme importance to making this device work. I am reminded of the precision machining required to properly re-bore cylinders in car engines: get that wrong, even by a very tiny fraction, and the engine won't run properly. I've known a number of people who didn't get that right. It seems the same degree of precision is required here.
Quote from: ThinkerX on 02/08/2015 08:21 pmIf I am following the last couple pages correctly at all, it seems that the cavity dimensions relative to the frequency is of supreme importance to making this device work. I am reminded of the precision machining required to properly re-bore cylinders in car engines: get that wrong, even by a very tiny fraction, and the engine won't run properly. I've known a number of people who didn't get that right. It seems the same degree of precision is required here. Sounds like it may make them tricky to reproduce at least initially.