Author Topic: Saturn IB Launch: Looking for specific footage with engineer commentary (AS-201)  (Read 6809 times)

Offline Architekt

  • Member
  • Posts: 8
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Hi,

I'm looking for launch footage with a very specific audio commentary, apparently from an engineer.
I saw it on the documentary "Moon Machines", Episode 1.
The exact moment is at 7:00 here:
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh5YIyqmt2Y#t=7m0s

If you believe the commentary of the documentary, it is from the first Saturn IB launch. That would be AS-201. But it's very possible that it's from another launch and they used the audio out of context; who knows.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: 04/17/2012 08:01 pm by Architekt »

Offline mtakala24

The video footage is NOT from AS-201, as it had an escape tower and this has not. And after the on-pad shots, the vehicle shown ascending is clearly not the same vehicle at all.

All mixing and mismatching done for the dramatic purposes, I strongly suspect. But the audio looks to be from _some_ mission, but it could be difficult to find out the source.

Offline mtakala24

Cross-referenced to footage available on Spacecraft Films: Mighty Saturns: Saturn I & IB  DVD, I could not easily identify any of these shots of the launch. Maybe someone will have other sources to check.

Similar configurations were used on Saturn I missions SA-1 through SA-4, but the Spacecraft Films dvd doesn't have any launch audio for these.
« Last Edit: 04/17/2012 09:52 pm by mtakala24 »

Offline mike robel

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2304
  • Merritt Island, FL
  • Liked: 369
  • Likes Given: 260
There are several vehicles mixed in here.

You see a glimpse of the fins of a Saturn IB, then SA-5, the first live S-IV stage with 6 RL-10s.
you then have a shot of SA-1, -2, or -3.
you then see lifting off in a long shot AS-203, the first use of a live S-IVB upperstage.

The segment ends with staging of SA-1, 2, or 3

AS-201 was a suborbital test of a heat shield with only a dummy upper stage.  it can be distinguished from Apollo 1/7 by the absence of the upper black band by the SLA Adapter.

attached are montages of all Saturn I and IB launches.

Edit AS-204 was used for both Apollo 1 and Apollo 5 (first flight on an LM)
« Last Edit: 04/18/2012 01:28 am by mike robel »

Offline edkyle99

  • Expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15391
    • Space Launch Report
  • Liked: 8565
  • Likes Given: 1356
you then see lifting off in a long shot AS-203, the first use of a live S-IVB upperstage.

AS-201, the first Saturn IB, used a live S-IVB stage.  AS-203, the second Saturn IB to fly, was the first orbital flight of an S-IVB.

AS-204 also ended up flying with no CSM, so it looked a little like AS-203.  I can't tell which one appears in this clip.

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 04/18/2012 01:47 am by edkyle99 »

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37440
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 21450
  • Likes Given: 428

AS-201 was a suborbital test of a heat shield with only a dummy upper stage. 

I believe it was live upper stage

Offline Proponent

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7277
  • Liked: 2782
  • Likes Given: 1462
There are several vehicles mixed in here.

You see a glimpse of the fins of a Saturn IB, then SA-5, the first live S-IV stage with 6 RL-10s.
you then have a shot of SA-1, -2, or -3.
you then see lifting off in a long shot AS-203, the first use of a live S-IVB upperstage.

The segment ends with staging of SA-1, 2, or 3

I disagree slightly:

6:38 -- The fins look Saturn I Block 2 to me (they're not all the same size).  And if you look closely, you can see the notation "SA-..." on one of the tanks, the upper right-hand portion being blocked by the service-tower structure, so it must be a Saturn I, one of SA-5 to -10.  Assuming we're seeing other shots of the same vehicle until 6:59, it's definitely SA-5.

6:59 -- Doesn't this have to be either SA-1 or -2, since there's no umbilical tower?

7:10 -- It's Block 1, hence one of SA-1 to -4.  The presence of the umbilical tower narrows it down to SA-3 or -4.  The fact that no (possibly dummy) ullage motors are present on the (dummy) second stage narrows it down to SA-3.

7:19 -- The nose cone tells us it's either AS-203 or -204.  It looks more like 203, which was a little more squat.

7:40 -- No fins, white nose cone, so this must be one of SA-1 to -4.

8:01 -- Staging seems to show a live second stage, so if it's a Saturn it's SA-5 or later.  The commentary is a bit hyperbolic in implying that the Saturn I was the first rocket to demonstrate staging.
« Last Edit: 04/18/2012 03:40 am by Proponent »

Offline mtakala24

Yes, Moon Machines is fantastic documentary, but they didn't get all the details right. In one point, they clearly mis-stated something about Apollo spacecraft's fuel cells, but I cannot quite remember what the mistake there was. Anyway, the whole series is still worth watching.

Offline edkyle99

  • Expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15391
    • Space Launch Report
  • Liked: 8565
  • Likes Given: 1356
7:19 -- The nose cone tells us it's either AS-203 or -204.  It looks more like 203, which was a little more squat.

I've concluded that this was AS-203.  This shot was made from an aircraft, which created the view looking down toward the launch pad that we see in the Moon Machines clip.

Here is the entire AS-203 video.



 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 04/18/2012 01:53 pm by edkyle99 »

Offline mike robel

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2304
  • Merritt Island, FL
  • Liked: 369
  • Likes Given: 260
I stand corrected on the 2nd Stage for AS-201/202.  I confused the sub orbital trajetory for these missions as meaning the 2nd stage was a dummy.  AS-203 though, was the first orbital mission and demonstrated restart capability.

Offline mtakala24

very nice! Now, how about that audio.....

Offline Art LeBrun

  • Photo freak
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2128
  • Orange, California
  • Liked: 35
  • Likes Given: 0
7:19 -- The nose cone tells us it's either AS-203 or -204.  It looks more like 203, which was a little more squat.

I've concluded that this was AS-203.  This shot was made from an aircraft, which created the view looking down toward the launch pad that we see in the Moon Machines clip.

 - Ed Kyle
Definitely AS-203 as it was a late morning launch and the sunlight is coming from the east. AS-204 was a late afternoon launch so any sunlight would have come from the opposite direction shown in the video.
« Last Edit: 04/18/2012 05:39 pm by Art LeBrun »
1958 launch vehicle highlights: Vanguard TV-4 and Atlas 12B

Offline zerm

  • Hypergolic cartoonist
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1319
    • GWS Books dot com
  • Liked: 34
  • Likes Given: 19
The 7:40 "staging" can be none other than SA-4 which was the ONLY Block I Saturn I to fire test retros. Although the vehicle did not sepreate, the firing system needed to be tested.

Offline Proponent

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7277
  • Liked: 2782
  • Likes Given: 1462
Definitely AS-203 as it was a late morning launch and the sunlight is coming from the east. AS-204 was a late afternoon launch so any sunlight would have come from the opposite direction shown in the video.

Does the sun angle (or maybe the sky) tell you whether we're seeing SA-1 or -2 at 6:59?
« Last Edit: 04/19/2012 05:59 am by Proponent »

Offline Art LeBrun

  • Photo freak
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2128
  • Orange, California
  • Liked: 35
  • Likes Given: 0
Definitely AS-203 as it was a late morning launch and the sunlight is coming from the east. AS-204 was a late afternoon launch so any sunlight would have come from the opposite direction shown in the video.

Does the sun angle (or maybe the sky) tell you whether we're seeing SA-1 or -2 at 6:59?
SA-1 had low horizonal cloud banks plus higher scattered. Based on the viewing angle I would guess your 6:59 is SA-1. What we do to ensure ID sometimes sometimes.........
1958 launch vehicle highlights: Vanguard TV-4 and Atlas 12B

Offline Architekt

  • Member
  • Posts: 8
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Thanks guys, awesome job on the picture :)

Now, what about the audio? :)
As far as we know, it could be any US rocket launch, right? Maybe it's not even S1B.

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
1