Author Topic: Russian nuclear propulsion  (Read 59027 times)

Offline gosnold

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 586
  • Liked: 254
  • Likes Given: 2224
Re: Russian nuclear propulsion
« Reply #20 on: 06/26/2016 07:01 pm »
What would be the delta-v of this stage with no payload?
It is quite difficult even to guess/estimate without knowing values of Specific Impulse, thrust (to estimate gravity losses) and mass of propellant :(

I don't read Russian but I see in the pictures something about "70 km/s" which I think is the Isp and a mass of 20290kg. So it seems all that's missing is the mass of propellant, and maybe it's in the picture. If you can make sense of them, could you post a translation?

Offline asmi

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 733
  • Ontario, Canada
  • Liked: 170
  • Likes Given: 128
Re: Russian nuclear propulsion
« Reply #21 on: 06/26/2016 07:47 pm »
I don't read Russian but I see in the pictures something about "70 km/s" which I think is the Isp and a mass of 20290kg. So it seems all that's missing is the mass of propellant, and maybe it's in the picture. If you can make sense of them, could you post a translation?
70 km/s is exhaust velocity, Isp is Ve/g0, so 7136 sec.
Thrust is 18H (~2 kg force).
Propellant load is not specified on a picture, only total mass.
« Last Edit: 06/26/2016 07:50 pm by asmi »

Offline fregate

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 939
  • Space Association of Australia
  • Melbourne Australia
  • Liked: 144
  • Likes Given: 14
Re: Russian nuclear propulsion
« Reply #22 on: 06/28/2016 06:48 am »
I don't read Russian but I see in the pictures something about "70 km/s" which I think is the Isp and a mass of 20290kg. So it seems all that's missing is the mass of propellant, and maybe it's in the picture. If you can make sense of them, could you post a translation?
70 km/s is exhaust velocity, Isp is Ve/g0, so 7136 sec.
Thrust is 18H (~2 kg force).
Propellant load is not specified on a picture, only total mass.
Some details in those 2 articles
"Selene, the Moon. Selenginsk, an old town in Siberia: moon-rocket  town" Vladimir Nabokov

Offline fregate

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 939
  • Space Association of Australia
  • Melbourne Australia
  • Liked: 144
  • Likes Given: 14
Re: Russian nuclear propulsion
« Reply #23 on: 07/22/2016 04:47 pm »
An interesting new article in the recent RKK Energia official publication (2016 N2)
Архангельский Н.И., Акимов В.Н., Кувшинова Е.Ю., Синицын А.А.
Выбор параметров эллиптической орбиты базирования для повышения безопасности применения многоразовых ядерных буксиров
Link http://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2016/02-2016/02-05.pdf
SELECTING PARAMETERS OF ELLIPTICAL BASING ORBIT TO IMPROVE SAFETY OF NUCLEAR REUSABLE TUGS
ГНЦ РФ–ФГУП «Исследовательский центр имени М.В. Келдыша» (Центр Келдыша) Ул. Онежская, 8, г. Москва, Российская Федерация, 125438, e-mail: [email protected]
The State Scientiic Centre of Russian Federation – Federal State Unitary Enterprise
Research Centre named after M.V. Keldysh (Keldysh Research Centre)
8 Onezhskaya str., Moscow, 125438, Russian Federation, e-mail: [email protected]
Quote
Abstract: The design-ballistic analysis of the effect of parameters of elliptical basing orbits of the reusable interorbital tug based on the nuclear power plant and electrorocket propulsion system of megawatt-class safety and efficiency of its use in the program which provides heavy cargo traic to geostationary and near-Moon orbits has been made. It is shown that in comparison with the option of traditionally considered circular radiation safe orbit of altitude Hcir =  800 km the use of high elliptical basing orbits allows to reduce by approximately two orders the duration of staying in the single light of the tug itself and the launched payload in the area of intensive contamination with anthropogenic space debris. In this case the total weight of the payload to be delivered by the tug to target orbit can be signiicantly increased during its life cycle, as well as the xenon consumption per unit of weight of the payload to be delivered can be reduced
several times.
Key words: reusable interorbital tug, nuclear power plant, electrorocket propulsion system,
basing orbit.
"Selene, the Moon. Selenginsk, an old town in Siberia: moon-rocket  town" Vladimir Nabokov

Offline Tywin

Re: Russian nuclear propulsion
« Reply #24 on: 11/01/2018 02:00 am »
Some fresh news about this project  :D

https://www.rt.com/news/442521-nuclear-propulsion-system-russia/

[zubenelgenubi: image attached]
« Last Edit: 09/14/2020 08:23 pm by zubenelgenubi »
The knowledge is power...Everything is connected...
The Turtle continues at a steady pace ...

Offline fregate

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 939
  • Space Association of Australia
  • Melbourne Australia
  • Liked: 144
  • Likes Given: 14
Re: Russian nuclear propulsion
« Reply #25 on: 11/01/2018 10:48 pm »
Some fresh news about this project  :D

https://www.rt.com/news/442521-nuclear-propulsion-system-russia/
Nuclear Power Propulsion System for SpacecraftA. S. Koroteev, Yu. A. Oshev, S. A. Popov, A. V. Karevsky, A. Ye. Solodukhin, L. E. Zakharenkov, and A. V. Semenkin Keldysh Research Center, ul. Onezhskaya 8, Moscow, 125438 Russia email: [email protected]; [email protected]
Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/286491960_Nuclear_power_propulsion_system_for_spacecraft

IMHO there are 2 parallel projects:
- Roskosmos/Rosatom joint project (Keldysh Research Center)
- RKK Energia (Space Tug "Hercules")
"Selene, the Moon. Selenginsk, an old town in Siberia: moon-rocket  town" Vladimir Nabokov

Online Asteroza

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3069
  • Liked: 1186
  • Likes Given: 33
Re: Russian nuclear propulsion
« Reply #26 on: 11/02/2018 12:50 am »
Some fresh news about this project  :D

https://www.rt.com/news/442521-nuclear-propulsion-system-russia/

It seems they are baselining a droplet radiator?!?
« Last Edit: 09/14/2020 08:24 pm by zubenelgenubi »

Offline tyrred

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 939
  • Seattle
  • Liked: 764
  • Likes Given: 22010
Re: Russian nuclear propulsion
« Reply #27 on: 11/02/2018 05:03 am »
Droplet radiator, interesting.  What is the TRL of that technology?

Offline RON_P

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 178
  • Liked: 77
  • Likes Given: 92
Re: Russian nuclear propulsion
« Reply #28 on: 09/12/2020 10:49 pm »
https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/index.php?topic=11908.10280
Ekipazh radiators !? or this is just a prototype ?

Also it seems they abandoned the droplet radiator concept .
« Last Edit: 09/12/2020 10:54 pm by RON_P »

Offline B. Hendrickx

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1516
  • Liked: 2189
  • Likes Given: 74
Re: Russian nuclear propulsion
« Reply #29 on: 09/13/2020 10:06 am »
https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/index.php?topic=11908.10280
Ekipazh radiators !? or this is just a prototype ?

Also it seems they abandoned the droplet radiator concept .

I understand these pictures show elements of the 1 megawatt reactor (or more likely its prototype) that is being developed by KB Arsenal under a project started in 2010 and managed jointly by Roskosmos and Rosatom. Ekipazh, on the other hand, is a top-secret military project assigned to KB Arsenal by the Ministry of Defense in 2014. It uses a much more modest thermionic nuclear reactor and may have something to do with space-based electronic warfare. There does not seem to be a connection between the two projects.

Anyway, thanks for posting that link. The pictures are definitely interesting because even the 1-megawatt reactor has become shrouded in secrecy in recent years. I wonder where the they come from. No source is given by the person who posted them.



Offline Vacuum tube

  • Member
  • Posts: 7
  • Liked: 10
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Russian nuclear propulsion
« Reply #30 on: 09/13/2020 10:57 am »

 I wonder where the they come from. No source is given by the person who posted them.

Army-2020, video from Arsenal closed exhibition
Smartphones is bane of security  :)
« Last Edit: 09/13/2020 10:59 am by Vacuum tube »

Offline RON_P

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 178
  • Liked: 77
  • Likes Given: 92
Re: Russian nuclear propulsion
« Reply #31 on: 09/13/2020 02:32 pm »
https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/index.php?topic=11908.10280
Ekipazh radiators !? or this is just a prototype ?

Also it seems they abandoned the droplet radiator concept .

I understand these pictures show elements of the 1 megawatt reactor (or more likely its prototype) that is being developed by KB Arsenal under a project started in 2010 and managed jointly by Roskosmos and Rosatom. Ekipazh, on the other hand, is a top-secret military project assigned to KB Arsenal by the Ministry of Defense in 2014. It uses a much more modest thermionic nuclear reactor and may have something to do with space-based electronic warfare. There does not seem to be a connection between the two projects.

Anyway, thanks for posting that link. The pictures are definitely interesting because even the 1-megawatt reactor has become shrouded in secrecy in recent years. I wonder where the they come from. No source is given by the person who posted them.
1. What will launch the thing ( Angara A5 ?) .

2.Also why they even develop this thing without specific mission for it  i.e a JIMO type mission  or a manned/cargo mars mission ( but 1 MWe would not be enough ) here is a recent NASA presentation on the subject  http://fiso.spiritastro.net/telecon/Mason_8-19-20/ .

3. Do you have any information on the reactor itself ( like cooling system , mass , ALPHA and electric conversion system ) .
« Last Edit: 09/13/2020 02:40 pm by RON_P »

Offline Vacuum tube

  • Member
  • Posts: 7
  • Liked: 10
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Russian nuclear propulsion
« Reply #32 on: 09/13/2020 04:04 pm »

1. What will launch the thing ( Angara A5 ?) .

2.Also why they even develop this thing without specific mission for it  i.e a JIMO type mission  or a manned/cargo mars mission ( but 1 MWe would not be enough ) here is a recent NASA presentation on the subject  http://fiso.spiritastro.net/telecon/Mason_8-19-20/ .

3. Do you have any information on the reactor itself ( like cooling system , mass , ALPHA and electric conversion system ) .

well, there is no "hard" plans, but

1. something like A-5M with "emergency rescue system" for reactor

2. One of main mission for 1 MW version declared 20t "block" for orbital Moon base and 16t "block"+ landing system for Moon surface base,
also "space exploration missions" and "orbital tug" missions,
for Mars there is "plans" for 5 and 25 MW versions

3.reactor mass ~7t (or ~4,5t, really depend on what to count as reactor), turbine electric conversion system, Helium/Xenon cooling system up to 1500K in circuit,

keep in mind that all that is old info, so take it with grain of salt

Offline RON_P

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 178
  • Liked: 77
  • Likes Given: 92
Re: Russian nuclear propulsion
« Reply #33 on: 09/13/2020 05:55 pm »
The demonstrator reactor will 1 MW electric or thermal ?

Offline B. Hendrickx

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1516
  • Liked: 2189
  • Likes Given: 74
Re: Russian nuclear propulsion
« Reply #34 on: 09/13/2020 09:02 pm »
Here are some excerpts from the article on Ekipazh that I wrote last year and which may answer some of the above questions. The article also discussed the unrelated 1 megawatt reactor.

https://www.thespacereview.com/article/3809/1

Quote
Court documents also reveal that KB Arsenal signed a contract (called TEM-Arsenal) with the Khrunichev Center on July 1, 2015, for work on an orbital demonstrator identified as 327AN30-TEM-1 to be launched by the Angara-A5 rocket. According to the documentation, KB Arsenal initially studied a 140-kilowatt version of the demonstrator, but in May 2016 was ordered to upgrade this capacity to 500 kilowatts, one resulting problem being that it exceeded the launch capacity of the Angara-A5 by about 1.5 tons.[11] Roscosmos chief Dmitri Rogozin recently said that it has not yet been decided if it is necessary to build a 500-kilowatt interim version before moving on to the one-megwatt version.[12]

The one-megawatt TEM project appears to have been affected by the significant budget cuts that hit Russia’s Federal Space Program for 2016–2025, approved in March 2016. At that point, Roscosmos ordered a series of studies that would have resulted in the launch of a demonstrator satellite no sooner than 2025.[13] KB Arsenal was assigned to one of those studies (called “Yadro” or “Core”) in November 2017. This was aimed at defining possible missions for TEM by November 2018 and would have to result in determining technical specifications for actual flight vehicles (with a reactor capacity ranging from 100 kilowatts to one megawatt) to be developed under a follow-on effort called Nuklon.[14] An indication that the full-scale one-megawatt TEM may not fly for at least another decade came in a recently released Roscosmos tender, which calls for completing ground-based infrastructure for TEM at the Vostochny Cosmodrome no earlier than 2030, a staggering 20 years after the project was initiated.[15]

(after the discussion of a possible electronic warfare payload for Ekipazh)

Quote
Electronic warfare is also one of the missions studied by KB Arsenal for the one-megawatt TEM project under the previously mentioned Yadro research program in 2017–2018. As is known from the tender documentation released for Yadro, Roscosmos ordered participants in the tender to look at EW payloads capable of interfering with “control, intelligence, communications and navigation systems.” KB Arsenal proposed an EW payload with a maximum mass of five tons and a power source generating between 100 and 1,000 kilowatts. The dimensions of the EW antenna were given as 10 x 2.5 x 0.4 meters in “transport mode.” The only other missions in Roscosmos’ specifications for Yadro were remote sensing, directed energy transfer using lasers, communications, and interorbital transport of payloads.[33] The solar system missions widely advertised for the one-megawatt TEM in the early years of the project were notably absent from the objectives.

All this, along with the fact that the one-megawatt TEM project has become increasingly cloaked in secrecy in recent years, is a possible sign that it is being at least partially militarized. It is worth noting in this respect that training sessions on handling hazardous radioactive materials that were organized last year for both Roscosmos and KB Arsenal specialists were described as being related to the use of “nuclear energy for defense purposes.”[34]

The fact that the images posted on the NK forum were made in a section of the Army 2020 exhibition that was off limits to the general public would tend to confirm the latter speculation.

Offline Vacuum tube

  • Member
  • Posts: 7
  • Liked: 10
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Russian nuclear propulsion
« Reply #35 on: 09/14/2020 01:51 am »
The demonstrator reactor will 1 MW electric or thermal ?

for 1MW reactor it is 1MW electric, 3,5MW thermal, at least in theory




The fact that the images posted on the NK forum were made in a section of the Army 2020 exhibition that was off limits to the general public would tend to confirm the latter speculation.


Oy vey, militarisation of 1MW TEM, who can even think about it:



it's not like "TEM-laser gun" theme was started by TEM "fathers" in hope to receive military funding, right? right?
and inclusion of Arsenal only worsening this

Offline Stimbergi

  • Member
  • Posts: 99
  • Liked: 269
  • Likes Given: 84
Re: Russian nuclear propulsion
« Reply #36 on: 09/14/2020 06:18 pm »
Animated render about TEM starting from 3:18

Offline RON_P

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 178
  • Liked: 77
  • Likes Given: 92
Re: Russian nuclear propulsion
« Reply #37 on: 09/14/2020 09:31 pm »
Any information on the electric propulsion itself ?
1.Hall or Gridded ion thrusters , like the late NASA JIMO's NEXIS thrusters   ?

2.Mass and power ?

3. Manufacturer, OKB fakel or someone else ?
« Last Edit: 09/14/2020 09:31 pm by RON_P »

Offline russianhalo117

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8945
  • Liked: 4887
  • Likes Given: 768
Re: Russian nuclear propulsion
« Reply #38 on: 09/14/2020 10:09 pm »
Appears to be identical in design to this project which we already have a thread: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48342.0

Offline zubenelgenubi

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13269
  • Arc to Arcturus, then Spike to Spica
  • Sometimes it feels like Trantor in the time of Hari Seldon
  • Liked: 8919
  • Likes Given: 88391
Re: Russian nuclear propulsion
« Reply #39 on: 09/14/2020 10:39 pm »
Cross-post:
There is a thread devoted to the 1 megawatt TEM here:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=37957.0
Perhaps it's better to continue this discussion there.
Again, Ekipazh is a different project.

[zubenelgenubi: I split/merged these posts from here to there.]
Support your local planetarium! (COVID-panic and forward: Now more than ever.) My current avatar is saying "i wants to go uppies!" Yes, there are God-given rights. Do you wish to gainsay the Declaration of Independence?

Tags: zevs nuclear power tug 
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
1