Author Topic: Ariane 5 VA241 -SES-14 (with NASA GOLD payload) & Al Yah-3 Jan. 25, 2018 UPDATES  (Read 240254 times)

Offline jimvela

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Apparently a bad, bad day.
My condolences to all involved- Launch provider, both Satellite operators, NASA and LASP...
I hope they find root cause quickly, this will be another obstacle for JWST.

Offline Lars-J

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AFAIK the only things that's known are:
1) that there was a break in the com-link with the launcher just after 2th stage engine start.
    The communication wasn't restored.
2) AFAIK both satellites haven't communicated back to groundstations (jet?)

This communication link failure is definetly a big anomaly, but the launch sequence is programed inside the upperstage. If only the com-link failed; the launch sequence continues and eventually the satellites would send data to the ground.
I think this is a very nasty situation because both the current  status and cause are unknown.
Most likely the ground tracking network/ orbit clasification is required to clear up the situation.
I really hope satellite signals will be received.

I don't know if the Ariane 5ES uses the same launch vehicle control system. So I can't judge the extend of the concequences of this launch anomaly.

Thanks for covering this launch. Let's hope for the best.

So *IF* there has been no actual communication any of the payloads, were all the updates after the telemetry drop just lies??  (all updates after page mid-page 7 in this thread)

Because they certainly did not make it sound like they were just reading off a timeline printed up ahead of time.  >:( 
(This reminds me of the Indian launch last year where we were getting announcement after announcement that thing were nominal, when they clearly were not)
« Last Edit: 01/25/2018 11:56 pm by Lars-J »

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Theoretical question: is there an FTS on the ESC-A second stage?
Astronomy & spaceflight geek penguin. In a relationship w/ Space Shuttle Discovery. Current Priority: Chasing the Chinese Spaceflight Wonder Egg & A Certain Chinese Mars Rover

Offline eeergo

SpaceflightNow reporting sources saying the payloads are in *some* orbit.

https://twitter.com/SpaceflightNow/status/956690661906026496


Stephen Clark: "With the benefit of its electric thruster orbit-raising package, the SES 14 telecom satellite with NASA's GOLD science instrument is expected to be able to reach its planned position in geostationary orbit.


The status of the Al Yah 3 satellite, which has a conventional chemical orbit-raising engine, has not been confirmed."
« Last Edit: 01/25/2018 11:58 pm by eeergo »
-DaviD-

Online jamesh9000

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Quote
With the benefit of its electric thruster orbit-raising package, the SES 14 telecom satellite with NASA's GOLD science instrument is expected to be able to reach its planned position in geostationary orbit.

The status of the Al Yah 3 satellite, which has a conventional chemical orbit-raising engine, has not been confirmed.

https://spaceflightnow.com/2018/01/25/va-241-mission-status-center/


Offline spacetraveler

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So *IF* there has been no actual communication any of the payloads, were all the updates after the telemetry drop just lies??  (all updates after page mid-page 7 in this thread)

Because they certainly did not make it sound like they were just reading off a timeline printed up ahead of time.  >:( 
(This reminds me of the Indian launch last year where we were getting announcement after announcement that thing were nominal, when they clearly were not)

It was a simulation after telemetry was lost. Nothing nefarious, that is pretty standard.
« Last Edit: 01/25/2018 11:59 pm by spacetraveler »

Offline spacetraveler

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SpaceflightNow reporting sources saying the payloads are in *some* orbit.

https://twitter.com/SpaceflightNow/status/956690661906026496


Stephen Clark: "With the benefit of its electric thruster orbit-raising package, the SES 14 telecom satellite with NASA's GOLD science instrument is expected to be able to reach its planned position in geostationary orbit.


The status of the Al Yah 3 satellite, which has a conventional chemical orbit-raising engine, has not been confirmed."

Most welome news. If that is correct, then the second stage must have provided nearly the velocity intended before the anomaly occured.

Offline Jim

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Faring isn't large enough. JWST was built around the Ariane 5. JWST is Ariane 5 and Ariane 5 only without major structural modifications, and with the budget already overrun, it's Ariane 5 or bust. Likely will face delay as they re-asses the risk along with ArianeSpace.

Not really.  It was built around Delta IV.  The Delta IV fairing could work, with the little intrusions.

Offline Lars-J

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So *IF* there has been no actual communication any of the payloads, were all the updates after the telemetry drop just lies??  (all updates after page mid-page 7 in this thread)

Because they certainly did not make it sound like they were just reading off a timeline printed up ahead of time.  >:( 
(This reminds me of the Indian launch last year where we were getting announcement after announcement that thing were nominal, when they clearly were not)

It was a simulation after telemetry was lost. Nothing nefarious, that is pretty standard.

Obviously, but phrased very deceptively. How else would you interpret the comment relayed on page 9: "Commentator affirming Malindi has AOS." ?
« Last Edit: 01/26/2018 12:04 am by Lars-J »

Offline eeergo

So *IF* there has been no actual communication any of the payloads, were all the updates after the telemetry drop just lies??  (all updates after page mid-page 7 in this thread)

Because they certainly did not make it sound like they were just reading off a timeline printed up ahead of time.  >:( 
(This reminds me of the Indian launch last year where we were getting announcement after announcement that thing were nominal, when they clearly were not)

It was a simulation after telemetry was lost. Nothing nefarious, that is pretty standard.

Obviously, but phrased very deceptively. How else would you interpret the comment relayed on page 9: "Commentator affirming Malindi has AOS." ?


I wholly agree. One thing is that the show must go on and seem cheery, but after several minutes of lost telemetry I would have expected at least the aknowledgement that commentary was based on expected events, and certainly not callouts that tracking stations were acquiring signals. Very poor commentary.[/size]
« Last Edit: 01/26/2018 12:08 am by eeergo »
-DaviD-

Offline spacetraveler

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Arianespace just released a statement saying both satellite providers have AOS of their respective payloads.
« Last Edit: 01/26/2018 12:09 am by spacetraveler »

Offline Rocket Science

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Faring isn't large enough. JWST was built around the Ariane 5. JWST is Ariane 5 and Ariane 5 only without major structural modifications, and with the budget already overrun, it's Ariane 5 or bust. Likely will face delay as they re-asses the risk along with ArianeSpace.

Not really.  It was built around Delta IV.  The Delta IV fairing could work, with the little intrusions.
Jim, I suggested the Delta IV as well but I'm uncertain about the production run. Any insight?
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
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Offline rockets4life97

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Hmmm... it sounds like maybe on orbit, but not the correct orbit? What could potentially be the cause of that?

Offline Lars-J

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Hmmm... it sounds like maybe on orbit, but not the correct orbit? What could potentially be the cause of that?

Stage 2 guidance or propulsion.

Offline AstroBrewer

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Arianespace just released a statement saying both satellite providers have AOS of their respective payloads.

http://www.arianespace.com/press-release/va241/

Ariane 5 launch VA241 for SES-14 and Al Yah 3: Update

The launcher’s liftoff took place on January 25, 2018 at 7:20 pm. A few seconds after ignition of the upper stage, the second tracking station located in Natal, Brazil, did not acquire the launcher telemetry. This lack of telemetry lasted throughout the rest of powered flight.

Subsequently, both satellites were confirmed separated, acquired and they are on orbit. SES-14 and Al Yah 3 are communicating with their respective control centers. Both missions are continuing.

Offline calapine

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I am so laughing it this turns out to be faulty antenna.  ;D

Offline Flying Beaver

Hmmm... it sounds like maybe on orbit, but not the correct orbit? What could potentially be the cause of that?

Exactly. Could still be in some kind of unstable LEO for all we know.
Watched B1019 land in person 21/12/2015.

Offline hartspace

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Hmmm... it sounds like maybe on orbit, but not the correct orbit? What could potentially be the cause of that?

Exactly. Could still be in some kind of unstable LEO for all we know.

They were at 195 km altitude and 7.02 Km/s velocity at TLM cutoff.  If it was a propulsion problem, they could be in a (really) low orbit.

Offline spacetraveler

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I am so laughing it this turns out to be faulty antenna.  ;D
Very well could have just been a telemetry problem. Once the orbits of the satellites are assessed we should know.

Offline calapine

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Hmmm... it sounds like maybe on orbit, but not the correct orbit? What could potentially be the cause of that?

Exactly. Could still be in some kind of unstable LEO for all we know.

If ESC-A was able to release SES-14, then the Sylda, then Al Yah-3 it must have worked to some degree.

If the engine failed right when the telemetry was lost the sats probably would be lost by now.

(Edit: If someone knows better, please correct me!)
« Last Edit: 01/26/2018 12:20 am by calapine »

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