SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - CASSIOPE - September, 2013 - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD

[ArbitraryConstant]

Starting this thread because it is likely the next launch and I don't see an existing thread for it. Mods please do the needful if I am in error.

This is a momentous flight for a bunch of reasons:

-First flight of the v1.1.
-First flight of the Merlin 1D and Merlin 1D Vac engines, excepting Grasshopper hops.
-First flight from Vandenberg.
-First flight of the Falcon 9 fairing.

The schedule is nominally June, but standard space and SpaceX schedule skepticism applies.


Other threads for CASSIOPE:
SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - CASSIOPE - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD (2)
SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - CASSIOPE - NET Sept. 29 - PRE-LAUNCH UPDATES
SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - CASSIOPE - Sept. 29 - LAUNCH UPDATES
SpaceX CASSIOPE Launch Viewing Thread
California Secrets - SpaceX F9 v1.1 Cassiope Launch Party Thread

[Chris Bergin]

Required thread, good intro post and the correct title format.

Much appreciated!

[mlindner]

Per http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=8184.msg1025272#msg1025272

Shouldn't the date in the topic be June 18th?

[ArbitraryConstant]

Per http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=8184.msg1025272#msg1025272

Shouldn't the date in the topic be June 18th?

Possibly. My understanding is that slippage is widely anticipated at this point. What's the convention? Put the date and update if/when it slips?

[fast]

I thought they will keep Merlin 1D Vac for FH?

[meekGee]

-First flight of the v1.1.
-First flight of the Merlin 1D and Merlin 1D Vac engines, excepting Grasshopper hops.
-First flight from Vandenberg.
-First flight of the Falcon 9 fairing.

Gulp.

More pressure, I think, then the first F9 launch...

If all goes well, then we also have (rumored) post separation first stage action - some experimentation with pitch-over, re-start, some manner of re-entry attempt

[Garrett]

Per http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=8184.msg1025272#msg1025272

Shouldn't the date in the topic be June 18th?

Possibly. My understanding is that slippage is widely anticipated at this point. What's the convention? Put the date and update if/when it slips?

This source points to June 18th, so I would go for putting the date in the topic.
http://epop.phys.ucalgary.ca/schedule.html

If you have a reliable, publically available source pointing to a slippage, then maybe put NET before the date?

[Robotbeat]

-First flight of the v1.1.
-First flight of the Merlin 1D and Merlin 1D Vac engines, excepting Grasshopper hops.
-First flight from Vandenberg.
-First flight of the Falcon 9 fairing.

Gulp.

More pressure, I think, then the first F9 launch...

If all goes well, then we also have (rumored) post separation first stage action - some experimentation with pitch-over, re-start, some manner of re-entry attempt

I disagree. SpaceX has now shown they know what they're doing. For the first F9 launch, they were still being dismissed as sort of overgrown hobbyists. The first 3 Falcon 1 launches (all failures) were still fresh in their minds.

And don't forget, they had recovery plans for v1.0 as well.

[Occupymars]

I thought they will keep Merlin 1D Vac for FH?

Welcome to the Forum Fast. Doe's this answer your question falcon 9 v1.0 = 9 merlin 1C engines and a merlin 1C vac engine. New falcon 9 v1.1= 9 Merlin 1D engine's and a Merlin 1D vac engine. Falcon heavy= 27 merlin 1D engine's and a merlin 1D Vac.

[meekGee]

-First flight of the v1.1.
-First flight of the Merlin 1D and Merlin 1D Vac engines, excepting Grasshopper hops.
-First flight from Vandenberg.
-First flight of the Falcon 9 fairing.

Gulp.

More pressure, I think, then the first F9 launch...

If all goes well, then we also have (rumored) post separation first stage action - some experimentation with pitch-over, re-start, some manner of re-entry attempt

I disagree. SpaceX has now shown they know what they're doing. For the first F9 launch, they were still being dismissed as sort of overgrown hobbyists. The first 3 Falcon 1 launches (all failures) were still fresh in their minds.

And don't forget, they had recovery plans for v1.0 as well.

... and hence the pressure.

With first flight of F9 they were underdogs, and hell even a partial success would have been a good thing.

Now they are the well-recognized challenger.  A lost more to lose, and so a lot more pressure.

And a lot more confidence, sure.

[Occupymars]

-First flight of the v1.1.
-First flight of the Merlin 1D and Merlin 1D Vac engines, excepting Grasshopper hops.
-First flight from Vandenberg.
-First flight of the Falcon 9 fairing.

Gulp.

More pressure, I think, then the first F9 launch...

If all goes well, then we also have (rumored) post separation first stage action - some experimentation with pitch-over, re-start, some manner of re-entry attempt

I disagree. SpaceX has now shown they know what they're doing. For the first F9 launch, they were still being dismissed as sort of overgrown hobbyists. The first 3 Falcon 1 launches (all failures) were still fresh in their minds.

And don't forget, they had recovery plans for v1.0 as well.

yeah but no matter how you look at it it's still a new launch vehicle and most of us know that gruesome statistic that 75% have had at least one failure in the first three flights.

[Robotbeat]

But it's not a completely new vehicle. This is a company that now has a track-record and many of their systems are no doubt the same or similar (avionics, etc). It's significantly different, sure, but they've validated their processes for designing and testing new vehicles of this class. For example, their practice of acceptance-testing all the stages before flight has served them pretty well.

[Orbiter]

Per http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=8184.msg1025272#msg1025272

Shouldn't the date in the topic be June 18th?

Possibly. My understanding is that slippage is widely anticipated at this point. What's the convention? Put the date and update if/when it slips?

I haven't heard anything like that, just everyone assumes it will slip simply because of SpaceX's track record. It's been June 18th for a while now.

[Occupymars]

Lets keep our finger's crossed for this flight. But since this launch vehicle has 9 engine's on it's first stage let's not be surprised if it has an engine out on one of it's early launches as seen with falcon 9 version one. I expect at least one engine failure out of it's first 10 launches. Probably two if falcon 9 version one was anything to go by.

[ArbitraryConstant]

I haven't heard anything like that, just everyone assumes it will slip simply because of SpaceX's track record. It's been June 18th for a while now.

Ok. Thread consensus seems to be put that up unless/until it slips.

[Lars_J]

lets keep our finger's crossed for this flight. but since this launch vehicle has 9 engine's on its first stage let's not be surprised if it has an engine out on it's early launch's as seen with falcon 9 version one I expect at least one engine failure out of it's first 10 launches. probably two if falcon 9 version one was anything to go by.

I think you are maybe being a tad extreme in your concern. They have proven they learn from earlier mistakes. They have a robust test program. After all, their F9 flights have had a far better success record than the F1, despite the F9 being a significantly more complex launch vehicle. And the step from F9 to the v1.1 is far less.

[Halidon]

I haven't heard anything like that, just everyone assumes it will slip simply because of SpaceX's track record. It's been June 18th for a while now.

Ok. Thread consensus seems to be put that up unless/until it slips.

Just use "NET June 18th." Covers the date and the possibility of slippage, without everyone getting in a twist.

[oiorionsbelt]

If all goes well, then we also have (rumored) post separation first stage action - some experimentation with pitch-over, re-start, some manner of re-entry attempt

and a soft water touch down. Hope we get to see that.

[guckyfan]

and a soft water touch down. Hope we get to see that.

Now there is an optimist. 

You are aware, if that happens the largest remaining obstacle to first stage reusability would be finding a suitable landing location?

[oiorionsbelt]

and a soft water touch down. Hope we get to see that.

Now there is an optimist. 

You are aware, if that happens the largest remaining obstacle to first stage reusability would be finding a suitable landing location?

Landing location is Vandenberg, biggest obstacle will be FAA approval.