finally observed the first spacetime contraction effects that we are fairly confident are the real deal...the laser interferometer observed spacetime contractions are being developed in a TM010 RF resonant cavity that is driving ac E-field levels over 900kV/m at a 1.48 GHz rate.
Just how significant is that to physics in general and is it something that has been theorised to happen?
We should discuss these news, that NASA Eagleworks Quote from: Star-Drive on 04/09/2015 03:12 amfinally observed the first spacetime contraction effects that we are fairly confident are the real deal...the laser interferometer observed spacetime contractions are being developed in a TM010 RF resonant cavity that is driving ac E-field levels over 900kV/m at a 1.48 GHz rate.
Quote from: Rodal on 04/17/2015 02:21 pmWe should discuss these news, that NASA Eagleworks Quote from: Star-Drive on 04/09/2015 03:12 amfinally observed the first spacetime contraction effects that we are fairly confident are the real deal...the laser interferometer observed spacetime contractions are being developed in a TM010 RF resonant cavity that is driving ac E-field levels over 900kV/m at a 1.48 GHz rate. would that be a subject to ME Drive thread?even if the underlying principle is related (quantum vaccum, etc), still, both drives would work very differently... so the warp drive needs itīs own thread, imho.
Quote from: aceshigh on 04/17/2015 06:45 pmQuote from: Rodal on 04/17/2015 02:21 pmWe should discuss these news, that NASA Eagleworks Quote from: Star-Drive on 04/09/2015 03:12 amfinally observed the first spacetime contraction effects that we are fairly confident are the real deal...the laser interferometer observed spacetime contractions are being developed in a TM010 RF resonant cavity that is driving ac E-field levels over 900kV/m at a 1.48 GHz rate. would that be a subject to ME Drive thread?even if the underlying principle is related (quantum vaccum, etc), still, both drives would work very differently... so the warp drive needs itīs own thread, imho.Yes, definitely a subject for this thread: "EM Drive Developments", insofar as NASA Eagleworks reports to have measured spacetime contractions (after several years of trying) by using an EM Drive (pillbox shape, short cylinder, I think, given the reported frequency and mode shape) in TM010 resonance mode to produce the measurements.The reason why it belongs in this thread has nothing to do with the reason you state <<the underlying principle is related (quantum vaccum, etc),>>, but instead it has everything to do with the fact that to obtain the measurements they had to use an EM Drive !It is very significant that it is only an EM Drive (rather than the other drives that were previously tried) that finally produced a laser interferometer signal that they are confident to report as such.Discussions about laser interferometer readigns with other types of drives (other than the EM Drive) belong in other, separate threads.
Quote from: Rodal on 04/17/2015 07:29 pmQuote from: aceshigh on 04/17/2015 06:45 pmQuote from: Rodal on 04/17/2015 02:21 pmWe should discuss these news, that NASA Eagleworks Quote from: Star-Drive on 04/09/2015 03:12 amfinally observed the first spacetime contraction effects that we are fairly confident are the real deal...the laser interferometer observed spacetime contractions are being developed in a TM010 RF resonant cavity that is driving ac E-field levels over 900kV/m at a 1.48 GHz rate. would that be a subject to ME Drive thread?even if the underlying principle is related (quantum vaccum, etc), still, both drives would work very differently... so the warp drive needs itīs own thread, imho.Yes, definitely a subject for this thread: "EM Drive Developments", insofar as NASA Eagleworks reports to have measured spacetime contractions (after several years of trying) by using an EM Drive (pillbox shape, short cylinder, I think, given the reported frequency and mode shape) in TM010 resonance mode to produce the measurements.The reason why it belongs in this thread has nothing to do with the reason you state <<the underlying principle is related (quantum vaccum, etc),>>, but instead it has everything to do with the fact that to obtain the measurements they had to use an EM Drive !It is very significant that it is only an EM Drive (rather than the other drives that were previously tried) that finally produced a laser interferometer signal that they are confident to report as such.Discussions about laser interferometer readigns with other types of drives (other than the EM Drive) belong in other, separate threads.This is a point that really stood out for me, among the latest salvo of updates by Paul M. It could represent a way to falsify the assertions about something really weird and novel going on inside these drives. And probably, becoming even an explanation of the observed results (e.g. by making the measured forces gravitic or space-warp related).As a totally not-expert in this subjects, I can't say if the topic is pertinent or not to this topic. So, what's the usual approach in the forum? Do our kind hosts prefer to take such tangential -yet relevant- topics outside their parent thread? I'm also assuming the topic is still relevant to space flight, of course.
Birchoff:"Is it possible to run the Frustum in a null configuration? If so, is that in the plans before the next report is published?"Yes and yes. In fact it was one of the requests made by the blue ribbon panel of PhDs that NASA/EP hired to review the Eagleworks Lab's theoretical and experimental work last summer. Even if will take a new mounting arrangement to get it accomplished. Overall though the blue ribbon panel's experimentalists appeared to be pleased with our previous and upcoming lab work. However they ripped into Sonny's QVF/MHD conjecture because it relies on the quantum vacuum being mutable and engineer-able whereas the current physics mainstream thinks that the quantum vacuum is an immutable ground energy state of the universe that can-NOT be used to convey energy or momentum as proposed by Dr. White. However they brushed aside Sonny's QVF based derivation of the Bohr hydrogen atom electron radius as a "mathematical coincidence" and didn't have a word to say what the Casimir effect and other quantum vacuum phenomenon were caused by, that can only occur only if the QV is mutable and can convey energy and momentum. So Sonny and Jerry Vera took it upon themselves last fall to increase this mathematical coincidence from one to more than 47 times as they explored the QV created atomic electron shell radii for atoms up to atomic number 7 all based on the QV being the root cause for all of it including the origins of the electron and all other subatomic particles.
Quote from: aceshigh on 04/17/2015 06:45 pmQuote from: Rodal on 04/17/2015 02:21 pmWe should discuss these news, that NASA Eagleworks Quote from: Star-Drive on 04/09/2015 03:12 amfinally observed the first spacetime contraction effects that we are fairly confident are the real deal...the laser interferometer observed spacetime contractions are being developed in a TM010 RF resonant cavity that is driving ac E-field levels over 900kV/m at a 1.48 GHz rate. would that be a subject to ME Drive thread?even if the underlying principle is related (quantum vaccum, etc), still, both drives would work very differently... so the warp drive needs itīs own thread, imho.Yes, definitely a subject for this thread: "EM Drive Developments", insofar as NASA Eagleworks reports to have laser interferometer readings (which they attribute to spacetime contractions after several years of trying) by using an EM Drive (pillbox shape, short cylinder, I think, given the reported frequency and mode shape) in TM010 resonance mode to produce the measurements.The reason why it belongs in this thread has nothing to do with the reason you state <<the underlying principle is related (quantum vaccum, etc),>>, but instead it has everything to do with the fact that to obtain the measurements they had to use an EM Drive !It is very significant that it is only an EM Drive (rather than the other electromagnetic devices, including capacitors, that were previously tried) that finally produced a laser interferometer signal that they are confident to report as such.And concerning your statement that <<both drives would work very differently... so the warp drive needs itīs own thread>> that's incorrect: the EM Drive in the laser interferometer experiment didn't work "very differently", it worked in a transverse magnetic resonant mode at 1.4 GHz frequency, so you should clarify what you mean by working very differently from the EM Drives that have been discussed in this thread.Discussions about laser interferometer experiments with other types of devices (other than the EM Drive) belong elsewhere.
TM010 RF resonant cavity ...at a 1.48 GHz rate.
Quote from: Rodal on 04/17/2015 07:29 pmQuote from: aceshigh on 04/17/2015 06:45 pmQuote from: Rodal on 04/17/2015 02:21 pmWe should discuss these news, that NASA Eagleworks Quote from: Star-Drive on 04/09/2015 03:12 amfinally observed the first spacetime contraction effects that we are fairly confident are the real deal...the laser interferometer observed spacetime contractions are being developed in a TM010 RF resonant cavity that is driving ac E-field levels over 900kV/m at a 1.48 GHz rate. would that be a subject to ME Drive thread?even if the underlying principle is related (quantum vaccum, etc), still, both drives would work very differently... so the warp drive needs itīs own thread, imho.Yes, definitely a subject for this thread: "EM Drive Developments", insofar as NASA Eagleworks reports to have laser interferometer readings (which they attribute to spacetime contractions after several years of trying) by using an EM Drive (pillbox shape, short cylinder, I think, given the reported frequency and mode shape) in TM010 resonance mode to produce the measurements.The reason why it belongs in this thread has nothing to do with the reason you state <<the underlying principle is related (quantum vaccum, etc),>>, but instead it has everything to do with the fact that to obtain the measurements they had to use an EM Drive !It is very significant that it is only an EM Drive (rather than the other electromagnetic devices, including capacitors, that were previously tried) that finally produced a laser interferometer signal that they are confident to report as such.And concerning your statement that <<both drives would work very differently... so the warp drive needs itīs own thread>> that's incorrect: the EM Drive in the laser interferometer experiment didn't work "very differently", it worked in a transverse magnetic resonant mode at 1.4 GHz frequency, so you should clarify what you mean by working very differently from the EM Drives that have been discussed in this thread.Discussions about laser interferometer experiments with other types of devices (other than the EM Drive) belong elsewhere.How do I infer that the EM Drive that was used in the first experiments reported to give laser interferometer readings of spacetime contractions must have been a pillbox-shaped, short cylinder ?Based on the information given by Paul March: QuoteTM010 RF resonant cavity ...at a 1.48 GHz rate.As I posted previously in this thread, a truncated cone cannot have a TM010 mode because the electromagnetic fields in a truncated cone cannot be constant in the longitudinal direction of the cone (due to the geometry of the cone producing a focusing, attenuating effect in the longitudinal direction). Therefore when somebody describes a resonant cavity having a TM010 mode it must be a cylindrical cavity. (Or, if the analyst is describing the mode of a truncated cone analogous to a cylindrical cavity, the truncated cone must be such that the big and small bases have approximately the same diameter, because otherwise this approximate mode would be cut-off in a truncated cone).Using the well-known equation for the frequency of a cylindrical cavity (see for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_cavity#Cylindrical_cavity ) , the frequency for a TM mode is:fmnp =( c/(2 Pi Sqrt[μr εr]) ) Sqrt[(Xmn/R)^2+(p Pi / L)^2]for TM010 we have m=0, n=1, p=0 and therefore:D = 2 R = ( c/(Pi Sqrt[μr εr]) ) X01/f010and since the speed of light in air is: c/(Sqrt[μr εr]) = 299705000 m/sand the Bessel Zero 01 is:X01 = 2.40482555769577and the frequency, according to Paul March was:f010 = 1.48*10^9 HzWe conclude that the diameter of the cylindrical resonant cavity used in these experiments was:D = (299705000 m/s)*2.40482555769577 / (Pi * 1.48*10^9 1/s) = 0.1550 m = 6.103 inchesHence we conclude that the RF resonant cavity used for the first successful experiments reported to give laser interferometer readings of spacetime contractions must have been a cylinder having 6.103 inches diameter.How do I infer that the cylinder must have been short, "pillbox shaped" with a length equal or smaller than its diameter ? Because the geometry of the experimental setup previously disclosed by NASA Eagleworks does not appear to be big enough to accommodate a significantly longer cylinder:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/White-Juday_Warp_Field_Interferometer_Experiment.pngPerhaps Paul March could confirm what were the geometrical dimensions of the EM Drive used in these experiments, and whether or not it had a dielectric insert and if so what type of dielectric was used.
Quote from: Rodal on 04/17/2015 07:29 pmQuote from: aceshigh on 04/17/2015 06:45 pmQuote from: Rodal on 04/17/2015 02:21 pmWe should discuss these news, that NASA Eagleworks Quote from: Star-Drive on 04/09/2015 03:12 amfinally observed the first spacetime contraction effects that we are fairly confident are the real deal...the laser interferometer observed spacetime contractions are being developed in a TM010 RF resonant cavity that is driving ac E-field levels over 900kV/m at a 1.48 GHz rate. would that be a subject to ME Drive thread?even if the underlying principle is related (quantum vaccum, etc), still, both drives would work very differently... so the warp drive needs itīs own thread, imho.Yes, definitely a subject for this thread: "EM Drive Developments", insofar as NASA Eagleworks reports to have laser interferometer readings (which they attribute to spacetime contractions after several years of trying) by using an EM Drive (pillbox shape, short cylinder, I think, given the reported frequency and mode shape) in TM010 resonance mode to produce the measurements.The reason why it belongs in this thread has nothing to do with the reason you state <<the underlying principle is related (quantum vaccum, etc),>>, but instead it has everything to do with the fact that to obtain the measurements they had to use an EM Drive !It is very significant that it is only an EM Drive (rather than the other electromagnetic devices, including capacitors, that were previously tried) that finally produced a laser interferometer signal that they are confident to report as such.And concerning your statement that <<both drives would work very differently... so the warp drive needs itīs own thread>> that's incorrect: the EM Drive in the laser interferometer experiment didn't work "very differently", it worked in a transverse magnetic resonant mode at 1.4 GHz frequency, so you should clarify what you mean by working very differently from the EM Drives that have been discussed in this thread.Discussions about laser interferometer experiments with other types of devices (other than the EM Drive) belong elsewhere.How do I infer that the EM Drive that was used in the first experiments reported to give laser interferometer readings of spacetime contractions must have been a pillbox-shaped, short cylinder ?Based on the information given by Paul March: QuoteTM010 RF resonant cavity ...at a 1.48 GHz rate.As I posted previously in this thread, a truncated cone cannot have a TM010 mode because the electromagnetic fields in a truncated cone cannot be constant in the longitudinal direction of the cone (due to the geometry of the cone producing a focusing, attenuating effect in the longitudinal direction). Therefore when somebody describes a resonant cavity having a TM010 mode it must be a cylindrical cavity. (Or, if the analyst is describing the mode of a truncated cone analogous to a cylindrical cavity, the truncated cone must be such that the big and small bases have approximately the same diameter, because otherwise this approximate mode would be cut-off in a truncated cone).Using the well-known equation for the frequency of a cylindrical cavity (see for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_cavity#Cylindrical_cavity ) , the frequency for a TM mode is:fmnp =( c/(2 Pi Sqrt[μr εr]) ) Sqrt[(Xmn/R)^2+(p Pi / L)^2]for TM010 we have m=0, n=1, p=0 and therefore:D = 2 R = ( c/(Pi Sqrt[μr εr]) ) X01/f010and since the speed of light in air is ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light ): c/(Sqrt[μr εr]) = 299700000 m/sand the Bessel Zero for m=0, n=1 is (see http://wwwal.kuicr.kyoto-u.ac.jp/www/accelerator/a4/besselroot.htmlx ):X01 = 2.40482555769577and the frequency, according to Paul March (see http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=36313.msg1355764#msg1355764 ) was:f010 = 1.48*10^9 HzWe conclude that the diameter of the cylindrical resonant cavity used in these experiments was:D = (299700000 m/s)*2.40482555769577 / (Pi * 1.48*10^9 1/s) = 0.1550 m = 6.103 inchesHence we conclude that the RF resonant cavity used for the first successful experiments reported to give laser interferometer readings of spacetime contractions must have been a cylinder having 6.103 inches diameter.How do I infer that the cylinder must have been short, "pillbox shaped" with a length equal or smaller than its diameter ? Because the geometry of the experimental setup previously disclosed by NASA Eagleworks does not appear to be big enough to accommodate a significantly longer cylinder:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/White-Juday_Warp_Field_Interferometer_Experiment.pngPerhaps Paul March could confirm what were the geometrical dimensions of the EM Drive used in these experiments, and whether or not it had a dielectric insert and if so what type of dielectric was used.
[..]Lastly, the Eagleworks Lab's next paper on the Q-V entitled "Dynamics of the Vacuum" will be out on the NASA NTRS internet servers just any day now. I've already provided this forum a one page abstract and introduction for this paper, but I need to agree with those that are saying that in the end analysis, the seat of all mater and space is nothing more than waves and various vortices AKA elementary particles in the Q-V. And we also think from our ongoing work that gravity is an emergent phenomenon that is nothing more than a Q-V flow field between other Q-V entities. So when the EM-Drive creates a thrust like phenomenon, what is really happening is that the EM-drive configuration is just setting up these Q-V flows via magneto-Hydro-Dynamics (MHD) like rules that translate into our 4D universe as space-time distortions or differential gravity gradients surrounding the drive. And my parting comment tonight is from the Star Trek NTG Universe: "Engage"Best, Paul M.
Paul, if the warp effect was only detected inside the cone topology, why is that ...
Paul, if the warp effect was only detected inside ....
you mean the little thrust being detected on the ME Drive
.. inside an ME Drive is subject to this thread. I agree.....if we try to understand ME Drive ..
...would that be a subject to ME Drive thread?..