One of the most important things about this is that a company as well known as BAE is willing to invest in them, in the first place.I do think it also increases steeply the likelihood that military applications are paramount here knowing where BAE places it business focus these days. As it says in the link below BAE are primarily a defence company.http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bae-systems-buy-20-stake-reaction-engines-1526711Now will they be able or wanting to attract other big investors perhaps someone like Airbus?
The working partnership will draw on BAE Systems’ extensive aerospace technology development and project management expertise and will provide Reaction Engines with access to critical industrial, technical and capital resources to progress towards the demonstration of a ground based engine
After reading the press release, it does sound as though BAE are bringing much more to the table than a pile of bank notes. I'd say the odds are now good that they'll have some sort of working SABRE test bed in 2020, which is phenomenal news.Anyone care to guess what was meant by BAE providing access to 'capital resources'? Perhaps financing in addition to the £20 (or for other aspects of the Skylon project, e.g. airframe/TPS development)? If so, then that's also significant.QuoteThe working partnership will draw on BAE Systems’ extensive aerospace technology development and project management expertise and will provide Reaction Engines with access to critical industrial, technical and capital resources to progress towards the demonstration of a ground based engine
To be fair to BAE, hypersonic aircraft for defense purposes is where the wind is blowing right now; you can understand why they would invest in a company developing enabling propulsion systems for sustained hypersonic flight. Even if it does result in the the technology having a military application, it's not that tragic. It's unlikely a hypersonic jet would ever be used to practically kill people and nearly everything mainstream in civilian aerospace is the result of some kind of military development program.
BAE won't be interested in this to make a hypersonic bomber, at least not directly themselves. At most the stake is there to prevent control by a rival in a better position to do that.They will however be very interested in the complex systems integration and avionics, hence the preferred supplier contract. Platforms is more their thing now.
Quote from: ChrisWilson68 on 11/02/2015 02:30 amQuote from: lkm on 11/01/2015 11:03 pmQuote from: topsphere on 11/01/2015 09:42 pm- BAE Systems agree to buy a 20% stake in Reaction Engines Ltd worth £20.6m, which entitles them to a seat on the board and a position as "preferred supplier".Well that must be the bargain of the century. Given REL's potential to own a multi billion dollar industry plus it's significantly valuable IP which has wide commercial applications a valuation oding the press release, it does sound as though BAE are bringing much more to the taf 100 million pounds seems a little low.The obvious conclusion is that no big industry partner believed the odds of REL owning a multi-billion dollar industry were high. Value equals size of payoff times probability of achieving the payoff.Sure but compared to some Silicon Valley unicorns REL has a better shot of owning it's market and the book value of its patents is surely more than the valuation put on the company.
Quote from: lkm on 11/01/2015 11:03 pmQuote from: topsphere on 11/01/2015 09:42 pm- BAE Systems agree to buy a 20% stake in Reaction Engines Ltd worth £20.6m, which entitles them to a seat on the board and a position as "preferred supplier".Well that must be the bargain of the century. Given REL's potential to own a multi billion dollar industry plus it's significantly valuable IP which has wide commercial applications a valuation oding the press release, it does sound as though BAE are bringing much more to the taf 100 million pounds seems a little low.The obvious conclusion is that no big industry partner believed the odds of REL owning a multi-billion dollar industry were high. Value equals size of payoff times probability of achieving the payoff.
Quote from: topsphere on 11/01/2015 09:42 pm- BAE Systems agree to buy a 20% stake in Reaction Engines Ltd worth £20.6m, which entitles them to a seat on the board and a position as "preferred supplier".Well that must be the bargain of the century. Given REL's potential to own a multi billion dollar industry plus it's significantly valuable IP which has wide commercial applications a valuation oding the press release, it does sound as though BAE are bringing much more to the taf 100 million pounds seems a little low.
- BAE Systems agree to buy a 20% stake in Reaction Engines Ltd worth £20.6m, which entitles them to a seat on the board and a position as "preferred supplier".
On reflection what I find interesting is that it is BAE doing this and not Rolls Royce, if it had been the latter then I would have been concerned that they were only interested in having hypersonic engine technology to shop around and had no interest in making a vehicle as they could make a profit just from the engine tachnology but BAE builds aircraft not engines, it makes money from this if Skylon gets built and their investment is structured to put themselves at the head of the que when the work gets handed out. So BAE believes Skylon is going to be built and that there'll be competition over being part of building it and so this is an investment in having a leg up over other suppliers. Regarding BAE being a defence company, in fairness they have been trying to diversify, the attempt to merge with EADS was about balancing their defence business with the civil aircraft business of Airbus. Skylon, should it take off, could do that for them.
BAE buys 20% stake in Reaction EnginesFinancial Times story here http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a25d2798-7f1b-11e5-98fb-5a6d4728f74e.htmlI appreciate most people won't have an FT account, so the main points of the article:
- The investment in REL will unlock a further £60m grant package from the UK government.
- However, the group has had to scale back its ambitions for a test engine in order to clinch the funding deal.
- The group now has "no immediate funding needs".
The heat exchanger work miiiiight be applicable to recuperated jet engines, as some of the more advanced ultrahigh bypass ratio turbofan deigns are considering recuperation. Notably MTU, which had a ducted geared counterrotating propfan engine with recuperation (CLAIRE, CRISP, and NEWAC programs). Though that's dealing with turbine exhaust and compressor heat with an all air medium.
One of the most important things about this is that a company as well known as BAE is willing to invest in them, in the first place.
I do think it also increases steeply the likelihood that military applications are paramount here knowing where BAE places it business focus these days. As it says in the link below BAE are primarily a defence company.
Now will they be able or wanting to attract other big investors perhaps someone like Airbus?
You may believe that, but the facts of this deal say that no big aerospace player and no big investor agrees with your assessment, or REL would have gotten a better valuation (and the bigger financial investment they had earlier indicated they wanted).
No, it doesn't indicate BAE believes Skylon is going to be built. It indicates BAE thinks there is some small chance that REL technology will end up going into something that gets funded, whether it's Skylon or something else.
This is good news for REL -- they get funded to build an engine and test it on the ground. Celebrate that, don't try to exaggerate it into far more than it actually is.
BAE has a couple of Skylon renders that may be new on their site. It shows a lighter TPS:https://resources.baesystems.com/pages/search.php?search=%21collection18040&k=29477be65c&offset=0&order_by=relevance&sort=DESC&thumbs=show&
I'm just glad to see some forward momentum. If the ground test is successful it will persuade some people off the fence, I'm sure.On a personal note, though, that 5 years is going to be an agonising wait! With any luck some of the BAE PR people will throw us a bone with a bit more regularity ;).
Quote from: momerathe on 11/03/2015 01:30 pmI'm just glad to see some forward momentum. If the ground test is successful it will persuade some people off the fence, I'm sure.On a personal note, though, that 5 years is going to be an agonising wait! With any luck some of the BAE PR people will throw us a bone with a bit more regularity .Yeah, 5 years is a long time. It's not just us having to wait. Every year that goes hurts REL's chances for Skylon being funded because other players in the launch industry move forward. If in 5 years SpaceX is regularly launching payloads to orbit on reused first stages, that really cuts badly into the value proposition for Skylon, even if everything goes perfectly with the Sabre engine on the test stand. The lower the cost of other launch options, the harder it is to make the case for Skylon.
I'm just glad to see some forward momentum. If the ground test is successful it will persuade some people off the fence, I'm sure.On a personal note, though, that 5 years is going to be an agonising wait! With any luck some of the BAE PR people will throw us a bone with a bit more regularity .
Quote from: ChrisWilson68 on 11/03/2015 06:00 pmQuote from: momerathe on 11/03/2015 01:30 pmI'm just glad to see some forward momentum. If the ground test is successful it will persuade some people off the fence, I'm sure.On a personal note, though, that 5 years is going to be an agonising wait! With any luck some of the BAE PR people will throw us a bone with a bit more regularity ;).Yeah, 5 years is a long time. It's not just us having to wait. Every year that goes hurts REL's chances for Skylon being funded because other players in the launch industry move forward. If in 5 years SpaceX is regularly launching payloads to orbit on reused first stages, that really cuts badly into the value proposition for Skylon, even if everything goes perfectly with the Sabre engine on the test stand. The lower the cost of other launch options, the harder it is to make the case for Skylon.If SpaceX can increase the demand for spaceflight by lowering costs with reusability, that only improves Skylon's chances of being developed.
Quote from: momerathe on 11/03/2015 01:30 pmI'm just glad to see some forward momentum. If the ground test is successful it will persuade some people off the fence, I'm sure.On a personal note, though, that 5 years is going to be an agonising wait! With any luck some of the BAE PR people will throw us a bone with a bit more regularity ;).Yeah, 5 years is a long time. It's not just us having to wait. Every year that goes hurts REL's chances for Skylon being funded because other players in the launch industry move forward. If in 5 years SpaceX is regularly launching payloads to orbit on reused first stages, that really cuts badly into the value proposition for Skylon, even if everything goes perfectly with the Sabre engine on the test stand. The lower the cost of other launch options, the harder it is to make the case for Skylon.