I had always assumed that Commercial Crew was going to use NASA pumpkin suits for the crew, but when I was looking through Reisman's FISO presentation, he mentions developing space suits. Which surprised me, so I started looking some more and Boeing also mentioned developing suits in some of their information posted on the web.So my questions are: Are all the CC entrants required to develop a suit? Or do they mean something like developing the interfaces to the existing suits?It seems like a waste of money to develop a new suit that could be better spent on the vehicle.
Quote from: qralt on 09/13/2014 05:25 pmI had always assumed that Commercial Crew was going to use NASA pumpkin suits for the crew, but when I was looking through Reisman's FISO presentation, he mentions developing space suits. Which surprised me, so I started looking some more and Boeing also mentioned developing suits in some of their information posted on the web.So my questions are: Are all the CC entrants required to develop a suit? Or do they mean something like developing the interfaces to the existing suits?It seems like a waste of money to develop a new suit that could be better spent on the vehicle.Without having any insight at all I guess that the current suits may be both expensive and not optimised for the new environments/constraints.
Truth is, for capsules, are there scenarios where cabin loss-of-pressure is survivable in a suit? MMOD breach maybe? Was there ever a situation during the shuttle program where suits saved lives? I suppose there were scenarios in which they would have been useful.
Truth is, for capsules, are there scenarios where cabin loss-of-pressure is survivable in a suit? MMOD breach maybe?
In a lifeboat situation, where people are hustling off ISS to get in a capsule, do they plan to put on the suits once inside? Can three people put on suits inside Soyuz, or do you have to put them on first and then get in?
Don't confuse launch and entry suits with space suits.
When I was at SpaceX last month there was a door off the cafeteria that was labeled "Spacesuit Development", but nobody would answer any questions and I certainly wasn't invited through the door for a look around.
Quote from: qralt on 09/13/2014 05:25 pmI had always assumed that Commercial Crew was going to use NASA pumpkin suits for the crew, but when I was looking through Reisman's FISO presentation, he mentions developing space suits. Which surprised me, so I started looking some more and Boeing also mentioned developing suits in some of their information posted on the web.So my questions are: Are all the CC entrants required to develop a suit? Or do they mean something like developing the interfaces to the existing suits?It seems like a waste of money to develop a new suit that could be better spent on the vehicle.I believe the requirement is to have a system to protect the crew in the event of cabin depressurization or a toxic gas leak, I don't believe there is a requirement specifically for suits. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.The CCDev selectees believe a suit cheaper than ACES can be developed and have contracted the dev work to other companies.Quote from: oiorionsbelt on 09/13/2014 09:53 pmDon't confuse launch and entry suits with space suits.Launch and entry suits are a type of space suit.
Those doing the suits for XCOR argue that space suits are very vehicle-dependent. ACES suit wouldn't really make sense if you're using a Dragon, CST-100, Dreamchaser.
Quote from: obi-wan on 09/13/2014 08:54 pmWhen I was at SpaceX last month there was a door off the cafeteria that was labeled "Spacesuit Development", but nobody would answer any questions and I certainly wasn't invited through the door for a look around.Sounds like SpaceX - doing yet another key bit in-house.
The Soyuz 11 crew were dead before entry, as the cabin depressurized when the orbital module was jettisoned. The landing (which, as always in Soyuz), was automatic and nominal. Dream Chaser has the same abort mode as (latter-day) shuttle: bail out at altitude when in stable flight. It's actually easier in Dream Chaser, as you go out the aft hatch and there's no issue about re-impact with the vehicle as there was on shuttle. The people developing suits for Dream Chaser and CST-100 have told me that the DC suits are designed for bail-out with individual parachutes, but the CST-100 suits are not. I suspect (not that they're talking) that the SpaceX suits are also not designed for bailout. (I have yet to hear any credible scenario for bailout from a capsule that has a reasonable likelihood of success and that substantially increases the probability of survival.)
QuoteThose doing the suits for XCOR argue that space suits are very vehicle-dependent. ACES suit wouldn't really make sense if you're using a Dragon, CST-100, Dreamchaser.So what makes them vehicle-dependent? I could see maybe electronics and hose attachments, but seems like you could easily adapt those...or better yet, just get the specs and put the right interface in your craft to begin with. Seems like the ACES suits would work just fine. Do you think they are too much because it's a full pressure suit? Hard to fit 7 astronauts who look like the Michelin man?
Quote from: qralt on 09/15/2014 12:23 amQuoteThose doing the suits for XCOR argue that space suits are very vehicle-dependent. ACES suit wouldn't really make sense if you're using a Dragon, CST-100, Dreamchaser.So what makes them vehicle-dependent? I could see maybe electronics and hose attachments, but seems like you could easily adapt those...or better yet, just get the specs and put the right interface in your craft to begin with. Seems like the ACES suits would work just fine. Do you think they are too much because it's a full pressure suit? Hard to fit 7 astronauts who look like the Michelin man? I'm not sure about the technical specifics, but another thing is that dealing with a NASA-developed product like the ACES suit would be a nightmare since it is an older suit and finding up-to-date suppliers for all the parts may be difficult.
Quote from: obi-wan on 09/14/2014 10:39 pmThe Soyuz 11 crew were dead before entry, as the cabin depressurized when the orbital module was jettisoned. The landing (which, as always in Soyuz), was automatic and nominal. Dream Chaser has the same abort mode as (latter-day) shuttle: bail out at altitude when in stable flight. It's actually easier in Dream Chaser, as you go out the aft hatch and there's no issue about re-impact with the vehicle as there was on shuttle. The people developing suits for Dream Chaser and CST-100 have told me that the DC suits are designed for bail-out with individual parachutes, but the CST-100 suits are not. I suspect (not that they're talking) that the SpaceX suits are also not designed for bailout. (I have yet to hear any credible scenario for bailout from a capsule that has a reasonable likelihood of success and that substantially increases the probability of survival.)I was referring to Soyuz TMA-11 which had a ballistic re-entry. That is a pretty big anomaly on reentry that the crew survived and recovered from their injuries. If the Dragon crew have pressurized suits, and emergency oxygen, as long as the chute deploys (or the thrusters fire to cushion the landing) their survival is high.Soyuz 11 in 1971 with a depressurization was different. They also could have survived if they had space suits pressurized.
Quote from: spacetech on 09/15/2014 12:58 amI was referring to Soyuz TMA-11 which had a ballistic re-entry. That is a pretty big anomaly on reentry that the crew survived and recovered from their injuries. If the Dragon crew have pressurized suits, and emergency oxygen, as long as the chute deploys (or the thrusters fire to cushion the landing) their survival is high.Soyuz 11 in 1971 with a depressurization was different. They also could have survived if they had space suits pressurized.The ballistic re-entry (haven't there been several? TMA-10, TMA-11, and at least one other earlier, just to ISS) are just high-g reentries. The suit doesn't make any difference in handling it.Cabin depressurization is different. Question is, is a big, bulky, expensive thing like ACES (with a backpack, even!) required, or could you survive with a helmet and oxygen and a partial pressure suit like you would use in a high-performance aircraft? That would handle toxic fumes, some minor fire situations, without costing a large fraction of the cost of the Dragon capsule.
I was referring to Soyuz TMA-11 which had a ballistic re-entry. That is a pretty big anomaly on reentry that the crew survived and recovered from their injuries. If the Dragon crew have pressurized suits, and emergency oxygen, as long as the chute deploys (or the thrusters fire to cushion the landing) their survival is high.Soyuz 11 in 1971 with a depressurization was different. They also could have survived if they had space suits pressurized.