Considering that VP Pence repeatedly touted that Artemis would land "the first woman" on the moon,Quote it's also humorously clueless (or is that just the sound of an axe being ground):However, under the Biden Administration, NASA is not immune from the left’s woke onslaught. Indeed, the Artemis Project is now being advertised with promises that astronauts will be selected for the mission based on gender and race instead of competence and excellence.
it's also humorously clueless (or is that just the sound of an axe being ground):However, under the Biden Administration, NASA is not immune from the left’s woke onslaught. Indeed, the Artemis Project is now being advertised with promises that astronauts will be selected for the mission based on gender and race instead of competence and excellence.
Considering that VP Pence repeatedly touted that Artemis would land "the first woman" on the moon,
Quote from: Proponent on 02/23/2023 10:11 pmQuote from: VSECOTSPE on 02/23/2023 02:27 amIt’s not an article. It’s a budget plan from a think tank.Considering that VP Pence repeatedly touted that Artemis would land "the first woman" on the moon,Quote it's also humorously clueless (or is that just the sound of an axe being ground):However, under the Biden Administration, NASA is not immune from the left’s woke onslaught. Indeed, the Artemis Project is now being advertised with promises that astronauts will be selected for the mission based on gender and race instead of competence and excellence.Will point out that to be selected for NASA astronaut training means that one is competent and excellent with likely a handful of science and/or engineering degrees.In other word, there are no lesser active NASA astronauts among those who are qualified for spaceflight.
Quote from: VSECOTSPE on 02/23/2023 02:27 amIt’s not an article. It’s a budget plan from a think tank.Considering that VP Pence repeatedly touted that Artemis would land "the first woman" on the moon,Quote it's also humorously clueless (or is that just the sound of an axe being ground):However, under the Biden Administration, NASA is not immune from the left’s woke onslaught. Indeed, the Artemis Project is now being advertised with promises that astronauts will be selected for the mission based on gender and race instead of competence and excellence.
It’s not an article. It’s a budget plan from a think tank.
Mark Wiese of NASA spoke at the SpaceCom conference about the Gateway logistics in Orlando Florida "Cislunar: Between the Earth and the Moon" in part about the Dragon XL"NASA anticipates starting work later this year on the first cargo mission (using the SpaceX Dragon XL) for the lunar Gateway, three years after awarding SpaceX a contract for such missions.NASA selected SpaceX in March 2020 for its first Gateway Logistics Services contract to transport cargo to and from the lunar Gateway. SpaceX will develop a version of its Dragon cargo spacecraft, called Dragon XL, that would launch on a Falcon Heavy to deliver several tons of cargo to Gateway and remove trash."extracted from https://spacenews.com/nasa-plans-to-start-work-this-year-on-first-gateway-logistics-mission/
Aside from the make believe right wing bs, my bet is that there won't be a budget this year at all.The house is doing its normal song and dance about debt and how budgets must be cut because there is a democrat president. As slim as their majority is, and how unorganized they are, I just don't see a budget getting passed (especially one that both the house and senate can agree with).Instead, its more likely we'll have 1 or multiple government shutdowns (costing nasa 10s of millions of dollars and losing months of work). Nominally, there will be a extension of the 2022 budget.
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1628468906603032576QuoteNASA's Mark Wiese says on a panel at SpaceCom that he expects the agency to give the formal authorization to proceed to SpaceX for the first Gateway logistics mission this year; planning a 48-month lead time to get it ready in time for Artemis 4 in ~2027.
NASA's Mark Wiese says on a panel at SpaceCom that he expects the agency to give the formal authorization to proceed to SpaceX for the first Gateway logistics mission this year; planning a 48-month lead time to get it ready in time for Artemis 4 in ~2027.
Quote from: Zed_Noir on 02/23/2023 10:56 pmQuote from: Proponent on 02/23/2023 10:11 pmQuote from: VSECOTSPE on 02/23/2023 02:27 amIt’s not an article. It’s a budget plan from a think tank.Considering that VP Pence repeatedly touted that Artemis would land "the first woman" on the moon,Quote it's also humorously clueless (or is that just the sound of an axe being ground):However, under the Biden Administration, NASA is not immune from the left’s woke onslaught. Indeed, the Artemis Project is now being advertised with promises that astronauts will be selected for the mission based on gender and race instead of competence and excellence.Will point out that to be selected for NASA astronaut training means that one is competent and excellent with likely a handful of science and/or engineering degrees.In other word, there are no lesser active NASA astronauts among those who are qualified for spaceflight.Agreed. Among those equally qualified and competent astronauts are several women and several people of color. Those can easily be selected for Artemis III without compromising "competence and excellence".So, those fear mongers who used the "gender and race before competence and excellence"-argument where just doing their usual FUD routine.
That raises the question as to whether the Biden Administration really needed to change the Trump Administration's slogan from the "first woman and the next man" to the "first woman and the first person of color" to go the Moon.
[see light green inset towards bottom] NASA will land the first woman and first person of color on the moon in 2025 as part of the Artemis mission
Quote[see light green inset towards bottom] NASA will land the first woman and first person of color on the moon in 2025 as part of the Artemis missionhttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-7601423/NASA-aims-land-humans-Mars-2035-moon-mission-brought-forward-2024.htmlThat British article is dated and was last updated on 10/22/19.I suspect Bridenstine originated and started using the first-person-of-color goal as he was trying to sell Artemis. Those kinds of details (the Artemis name, first woman, etc.) seemed to flow from him, not from Pace, Pence, or anyone else in the WH.Another reason not to give credence to that budget plan (I hesitated to post it), except to the extent that the numbers in it are representative of the cuts that the Republican fringe that controls the balance of power in the House will be starting from.
This funding request "keeps NASA on the path to landing the first woman and the first person of color on the moon under the Artemis program. This goal aligns with President Biden's commitment to pursue a comprehensive approach to advancing equity for all," the NASA statement reads. The statement marks the first time that the agency has specified it will land a person of color on the moon;, previous comments about Artemis have only referred to landing the "next man and the first woman" on the moon.
*Removed and poster in timeout*.
We could do some amazing science with a human base on the Moon:https://bigthink.com/hard-science/we-need-human-moon-base/
Or an advanced extraterrestrial civilization could have built a monitoring post there to observe us. (Wouldn’t we do the same on a distant exoplanet where we have detected a biosphere? It’s a possibility worth investigating.)
Quote from: yg1968 on 02/26/2023 07:06 pmWe could do some amazing science with a human base on the Moon:https://bigthink.com/hard-science/we-need-human-moon-base/If the goal was science on the Moon, then we would have been doing it long ago with robotic explorers that could stay on the Moon for years. Unlike with going to Mars, robotic exploration on the Moon can be done in near realtime, and mission could launch throughout the year, instead of once every 2 years with Mars exploration.But science on the Moon has never been a priority for Congress, or for any Presidents after the Apollo program ended.As it is, science on the Artemis program sure seems like a secondary goal squeezed within the goal of humans walking on the surface of the Moon, instead of an integrated effort.For instance, NASA has the Artemis III Science Definition Team Report, and Section 2.1 The Artemis Science Plan lists seven objectives.- The first five are focused on studying the history of the Moon, and the Sun.- One focuses on "Conducting experimental science in the lunar environment".- The last one is "Investigating and mitigating exploration risks to humans".So except for the last one, all the rest could be done with robotic exploration systems, either as part of the Artemis program or separately. And none of those six would have an urgent political need.Just an observation...
Quote from: Coastal Ron on 02/26/2023 09:24 pm...So except for the last one, all the rest could be done with robotic exploration systems, either as part of the Artemis program or separately. And none of those six would have an urgent political need.Just an observation...I believe there is an unspoken driver, Great Nation Competition. Kennedy was able to say this part out loud. With our current geopolitical situation, some may feel it's time once again for America to show what it can do.
...So except for the last one, all the rest could be done with robotic exploration systems, either as part of the Artemis program or separately. And none of those six would have an urgent political need.Just an observation...
There are several key differences between then and now, one of which is America will this time do the moon as part of a coalition- showing the world how nice it is to be part of Team USA. This is important as globalism unravels. Its also important to note that going as a team is more important than the cost or the time schedule.
- The first five are focused on studying the history of the Moon, and the Sun.- One focuses on "Conducting experimental science in the lunar environment".- The last one is "Investigating and mitigating exploration risks to humans".So except for the last one, all the rest could be done with robotic exploration systems, either as part of the Artemis program or separately.
I believe there is an unspoken driver, Great Nation Competition. Kennedy was able to say this part out loud. With our current geopolitical situation, some may feel it's time once again for America to show what it can do. There are several key differences between then and now, one of which is America will this time do the moon as part of a coalition- showing the world how nice it is to be part of Team USA.
Quote from: Coastal Ron on 02/26/2023 09:24 pm- The first five are focused on studying the history of the Moon, and the Sun.- One focuses on "Conducting experimental science in the lunar environment".- The last one is "Investigating and mitigating exploration risks to humans".So except for the last one, all the rest could be done with robotic exploration systems, either as part of the Artemis program or separately.It depends.Just retrieve samples of the lunar mantle? A multi-hundred million dollar robotic mission can do that. No multi-ten or -hundred billion dollar human program needed. Understand the gazillion-year stratigraphy of ice deposition at the lunar poles and its relationship to water transport and other processes at lower latitudes? Yeah, that needs in-situ geologists. (If and when Artemis will deliver one is another question.)This is the problem. The program doesn’t have customers or know what their concrete goals are, so it doesn’t know what its supposed to do. It’s just focused on getting to the point where it can send four crew to the surface for a couple to few weeks annually and do something with that crew that appears useful.And absent a substantive and ongoing discussion with real stakeholders about real goals, the program will just exist its own engineering echo chamber and continue down a path of least resistance instead of making hard choices and changes about what it really needs to get done.Quote from: goretexguy on 02/26/2023 09:52 pmI believe there is an unspoken driver, Great Nation Competition. Kennedy was able to say this part out loud. With our current geopolitical situation, some may feel it's time once again for America to show what it can do. There are several key differences between then and now, one of which is America will this time do the moon as part of a coalition- showing the world how nice it is to be part of Team USA.There’s nothing wrong with international competition as a driver. But the biggest change between Apollo and Artemis is that the US has been to the Moon. For that reason alone, international competition may not be a sustaining driver for Artemis.Other aspects of competition this go-round are different, too. Unlike the Soviets, the PRC has yet to set a human lunar goal. If China falls into the middle-income trap, has fallout from its demographic problems, gets heavily sanctioned for sending arms to Russia, etc, they may not get there economically. And just due to the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine and China’s position on it, the rest of the spacefaring world has already pulled back from China, anyway:https://spacenews.com/esa-is-no-longer-planning-to-send-astronauts-to-chinas-tiangong-space-station/https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/02/heres-why-europe-is-abandoning-plans-to-fly-aboard-chinas-space-station/In some respects, any human space flight competition with the PRC has been won just by offering an alternative to China. Probably doesn’t even have to be lunar.Although I’m sure there will be self-interested, parochial scaremongering among congress-critters in the near-term, for these reasons and others, I wouldn’t rely on a Sino Cold War repeat of Apollo to sustain Artemis over the long-term.And even if there was a major competition with PRC in this arena, it doesn’t tell the program what to do after flags are planted again. What is it — concretely and quantitively — that we’re going to do on the Moon for $8B+ a year and growing besides beat China back there?
We set sail on this new sea because there is new knowledge to be gained, and new rights to be won, and they must be won and used for the progress of all people. For space science, like nuclear science and all technology, has no conscience of its own. Whether it will become a force for good or ill depends on man, and only if the United States occupies a position of pre-eminence can we help decide whether this new ocean will be a sea of peace or a new terrifying theater of war.
The first in a series of increasingly complex missions, Artemis I will provide a foundation for human deep space exploration and demonstrate our commitment and capability to extend human existence to the Moon and beyond prior to the first flight with crew on Artemis II. Artemis I is foundational to the space economy, fueling new industries and technologies, supporting job growth, and furthering the demand for a highly skilled work force. Men and women in all fifty states are hard at work building the Deep Space Exploration Systems to support missions to deep space. NASA prime contractors, Aerojet Rocketdyne, Boeing, Jacobs, Lockheed Martin, and Northrop Grumman currently have over 3,200 suppliers contributing to the milestone achievement that heralds the success of America’s human spaceflight program.https://www.nasa.gov/content/artemis-i-overview
While China may not pose an existential threat like the Soviet Union did, it is still a challenger in terms of international power and influence.
SLS/Artemis is meant to be a counter.
PR materials...QuoteArtemis I is foundational to the space economy, fueling new industries and technologies, supporting job growth,
Artemis I is foundational to the space economy, fueling new industries and technologies, supporting job growth,
Quoteand furthering the demand for a highly skilled work force. Men and women in all fifty states are hard at work building the Deep Space Exploration Systems to support missions to deep space. NASA prime contractors, Aerojet Rocketdyne, Boeing, Jacobs, Lockheed Martin, and Northrop Grumman currently have over 3,200 suppliers
and furthering the demand for a highly skilled work force. Men and women in all fifty states are hard at work building the Deep Space Exploration Systems to support missions to deep space. NASA prime contractors, Aerojet Rocketdyne, Boeing, Jacobs, Lockheed Martin, and Northrop Grumman currently have over 3,200 suppliers
The broad inclusion of foreign nations indicates the political goals of Artemis