Incidentally, here is the Blue Origin patent with the sea going platform:http://www.google.com/patents/US8678321
Quote from: DanielR on 07/22/2014 09:14 pmThere is the possibility that flight 14 will be to a floating "launch" pad and then flight 15 will touchdown on land. With respect to CRS-4 having a low probability of success, is it possible that it could be a repeat of Cassiope, where the rocket spins out of control due to lack of legs?Bonus: Here is the article saved for posterity: https://web.archive.org/web/20140722210143/http://www.spacex.com/news/2014/07/22/spacex-soft-lands-falcon-9-rocket-first-stageI find it odd they used the words "floating launch pad", when as far as we know, there's not intent to launch an Falcon from a floating platform, is there?I would think they'd refer to it as a "floating landing pad".
There is the possibility that flight 14 will be to a floating "launch" pad and then flight 15 will touchdown on land. With respect to CRS-4 having a low probability of success, is it possible that it could be a repeat of Cassiope, where the rocket spins out of control due to lack of legs?Bonus: Here is the article saved for posterity: https://web.archive.org/web/20140722210143/http://www.spacex.com/news/2014/07/22/spacex-soft-lands-falcon-9-rocket-first-stage
How about an old oil platform. They are perfectly stable.
I'm curious, is this the camera smashing through the inter-stage? I don't really know what this could be other than that.
I don't think you need floating platform to demo "pin point accuracy", just a set of GPS coordinates should be enough to convince the authorities, at most you need a floating beacon, platform is overkill.As for CRS-4 landing's "low probability of success", based on pure speculation, it could be they don't have the enhanced RCS on that flight.
How did I miss this yesterday? This news is 18 hours old!Great to see first video of the retro burn, and audio too! I wonder what the drive flame looks like from the side? A parabolic bow wave?
Quote from: mwfair on 07/23/2014 01:27 amThe video doesn't seem to show any data link drop outs, or any bit flips, or even any visible macroblocks! Is it possible that this was extracted from on-board storage?No idea.. but it would indeed be nice to know if they followed any of the recommendations from the team here this time around eg. non-interlaced video, etc.Can anyone confirm this from what has been released - or would you need the full transport stream?
The video doesn't seem to show any data link drop outs, or any bit flips, or even any visible macroblocks! Is it possible that this was extracted from on-board storage?
Wow! That icing on the lens didn't obstruct the vision in the way I thought. Given the video cuts off as the vehicle tilts over on the ocean surface, I'd say that's the point the structure failed for whatever reason. Off-axis loads of that kind are obviously more than it could take.Quote from: Tonioroffo on 07/22/2014 07:46 pmHow about an old oil platform. They are perfectly stable.Where's Sea Launch's launch platform right now?
Quote from: Scylla on 07/22/2014 07:44 pmQuote from: wannamoonbase on 07/22/2014 07:39 pmQuote from: sublimemarsupial on 07/22/2014 07:22 pmFrom the update on the SpaceX site:"We will attempt our next water landing on flight 13 of Falcon 9, but with a low probability of success. Flights 14 and 15 will attempt to land on a solid surface with an improved probability of success."The real story here is flights 14 & 15 on LAND!! That's before the end of this year.Does this mean they have gotten precise in hitting a designated landing location?I wonder if F9R-Dev 2 is going to be needed if they keep collecting data with these flights?From the same update...At this point, we are highly confident of being able to land successfully on a floating launch pad or back at the launch site and refly the rocket with no required refurbishmentOr possibly some sort of barge. Maybe rent the Blue Marlin or Black Marlin for a few days. Put some sort of surface on it to protect it, and have it partially submerge (but keep the deck above water) and it shoudl sit pretty stable in the water I'd think. There may be barges that are cheaper, especially if they were planning to have it land close to shore. Would a barge pitch too much? Do they have ways of stabilizing them like these heavy lift ships have.
Quote from: wannamoonbase on 07/22/2014 07:39 pmQuote from: sublimemarsupial on 07/22/2014 07:22 pmFrom the update on the SpaceX site:"We will attempt our next water landing on flight 13 of Falcon 9, but with a low probability of success. Flights 14 and 15 will attempt to land on a solid surface with an improved probability of success."The real story here is flights 14 & 15 on LAND!! That's before the end of this year.Does this mean they have gotten precise in hitting a designated landing location?I wonder if F9R-Dev 2 is going to be needed if they keep collecting data with these flights?From the same update...At this point, we are highly confident of being able to land successfully on a floating launch pad or back at the launch site and refly the rocket with no required refurbishmentOr possibly some sort of barge.
Quote from: sublimemarsupial on 07/22/2014 07:22 pmFrom the update on the SpaceX site:"We will attempt our next water landing on flight 13 of Falcon 9, but with a low probability of success. Flights 14 and 15 will attempt to land on a solid surface with an improved probability of success."The real story here is flights 14 & 15 on LAND!! That's before the end of this year.Does this mean they have gotten precise in hitting a designated landing location?I wonder if F9R-Dev 2 is going to be needed if they keep collecting data with these flights?
From the update on the SpaceX site:"We will attempt our next water landing on flight 13 of Falcon 9, but with a low probability of success. Flights 14 and 15 will attempt to land on a solid surface with an improved probability of success."
I figure the cheapest, safest option would be an unpowered/towed barge. Just a big hunk of floating metal. A ship would tow the barge out, and then leave the vicinity of the landing area for the safety of the crew.Due to the height, I'm not sure how practical it would be to move it or lift it using a crane from another ship once it lands, but it would at least prove that the Falcon 9 could land intact at a small target location.There would also need to be some way to prevent the barge from moving too much (or have the first stage be able to compensate for the barge drifting) and stabilize it enough so it doesn't tip over.
Quote from: Ben the Space Brit on 07/23/2014 12:51 pmWow! That icing on the lens didn't obstruct the vision in the way I thought. Given the video cuts off as the vehicle tilts over on the ocean surface, I'd say that's the point the structure failed for whatever reason. Off-axis loads of that kind are obviously more than it could take.Quote from: Tonioroffo on 07/22/2014 07:46 pmHow about an old oil platform. They are perfectly stable.Where's Sea Launch's launch platform right now?I'm kind of curious how they thought a red hot, or hotter, rocket motor was going to survive immersion in relatively cold sea water? (Cold relative to the motor). If it didn't immediately explode or distort, I would be VERY suprised. (Wonder if there were any volitiles left in the stage when they cut off the motor. If so, they might have also had a BOOM on their hands).
They probably didn't ever expect the engines to survive the thermal shock...at least not the three used for the re-entry and landing burns.
Quote from: Mike_1179 on 07/22/2014 08:27 pmThere was some talk about the center core of a FH not being able to return the launch site because it will be too far downrange at staging. Makes me think they’re building a floating platform for landing the center core of the (then safing it and lowering it to horizontal and shipping it back) and they’ll use that for floating recovery of the F9 stage.I read some where that the FH can deliver 7T to GT0 with all 3 boosters recoverable, I think they all stage at same time. At +7T the middle booster will have to do a down range recovery.With FH delivering most of GTO payloads we are going to see a lot of FH launches with the boosters being reused multiple times, especially as launches that require a booster/s to be expended will be far and few between.Originally I expected recovered F9 boosters to be lost on next expendable launch but sounds there may not be any ELV launches for F9.
There was some talk about the center core of a FH not being able to return the launch site because it will be too far downrange at staging. Makes me think they’re building a floating platform for landing the center core of the (then safing it and lowering it to horizontal and shipping it back) and they’ll use that for floating recovery of the F9 stage.
Even if the stages are all flying back to the same point, it is NOT optimal to stage them off all three at once.
Quote from: TrevorMonty on 07/23/2014 07:36 amQuote from: Mike_1179 on 07/22/2014 08:27 pmThere was some talk about the center core of a FH not being able to return the launch site because it will be too far downrange at staging. Makes me think they’re building a floating platform for landing the center core of the (then safing it and lowering it to horizontal and shipping it back) and they’ll use that for floating recovery of the F9 stage.I read some where that the FH can deliver 7T to GT0 with all 3 boosters recoverable, I think they all stage at same time. At +7T the middle booster will have to do a down range recovery.With FH delivering most of GTO payloads we are going to see a lot of FH launches with the boosters being reused multiple times, especially as launches that require a booster/s to be expended will be far and few between.Originally I expected recovered F9 boosters to be lost on next expendable launch but sounds there may not be any ELV launches for F9.Even if the stages are all flying back to the same point, it is NOT optimal to stage them off all three at once.
Quote from: Kabloona on 07/23/2014 03:07 pmThey probably didn't ever expect the engines to survive the thermal shock...at least not the three used for the re-entry and landing burns.I can see the middle one being hot (and how hot may be up for debate, since it is regeneratively cooled), but the two others should IMHO have cooled off by then. But I am not a rocket scientist. So I might be off with my assumption there.