DIRECT v3.0 - Thread 1

[jarmumd]

Both the Jupiter-130 and Jupiter-24x vehicles fly a much more benign trajectory than Ares-I and that the Max-Q forces are substantially lower.   Ares-I typically subjects the vehicle to around 1,200psf (+/- 100psf) during its Max-Q, whereas Jupiter produces more like 650psf (+/- 100psf).

Ross, latest official trajectories (i.e. somewhat old) show a nominal MaxQ of 850psf, with a few cases of ~1050psf.  What trajectories are you using to give those numbers?

[kraisee]

Ross, latest official trajectories (i.e. somewhat old) show a nominal MaxQ of 850psf, with a few cases of ~1050psf.  What trajectories are you using to give those numbers?

That's what I was told came out of a Monte Carlo run performed by MSFC about 3-4 months ago.   I haven't seen them myself though, just repeating what I've been told.

Ross.

[cro-magnon gramps]

Did anybody record this? I just caught the end of it.

I missed it too.  It looks their older shows all have mp3 recordings posted.  We may have to wait until they get that done for this show too.  I have no idea how long that might take.  Maybe a few hours, maybe a few days.

Unless someone else made a copy?

Mark S.

sorry to take so long, but technical difficulties due to Seniors Moment but here are two uploads
the bigger one is the full program... the small 10 minute segment is from the introduction to Werner Von Braun's interview from 1959, and to the end of the program... which includes Ross's part... I won't comment on the responses, but will say, Ross, YOU DID A DAMN FINE JOB!! great going...
  Dave

ok, seems the larger file is too large to upload, at 49mb, have some shrinking to do... brb

[kraisee]

Thanks for all the compliments guys.   The response really makes me feel very humble.

And you lot really have no clue just how terrified I get doing these things!    But I survived.   And its all for a great cause, so I guess I need to just keep on doing it

Ross.

[zapkitty]

... we believe... We have no reason to believe that there is any reason what-so-ever to believe otherwise.

You've trotted out the party line and failed to answer the  question. The irony is somewhat amusing.

I don't care about your belief system. I want the facts.

[clongton]

... we believe... We have no reason to believe that there is any reason what-so-ever to believe otherwise.

You've trotted out the party line and failed to answer the  question. The irony is somewhat amusing.

I don't care about your belief system. I want the facts.

The facts will be apparant when the report is presented to the administration.
For facts in hand you are just going to have to wait until then.
If it'll help you wait, I'll ship you a box of catnip by fedex

[Mark S]

Did anybody record this? I just caught the end of it.

Unless someone else made a copy?

Ross, YOU DID A DAMN FINE JOB!! great going...

Thanks CMG!  Much obliged...

[zapkitty]

The Augustine Committee's charter makes it clear that they must release everything they get hold of.   Of course, some materials might be classified and they won't be able to release those, but everything else *has* to come out.

Okay, that's much more clear

Lot's of interesting details to wonk later, but one question for now: Will you be in a position to detect any egregious errors, should such occur, in Aerospace's workup of your data before it's "too late"?

I know that their numbers will not exactly match your numbers in lots of things... and may be substantially different in some things... but I'm talking about things like accidentally substituting RL-10 numbers for SSME numbers etc etc.

[kraisee]

Just listening to the show again, I have to 110% agree with Andrew Chaikin's closing comments regarding getting us out of LEO again.   That was a really great line to close the show on.

Ross.

[ndb81]

The time and dollars are real right now. Proposals always have to be adapted to availability of funds. Direct is not just about LEO, the Moon or even Mars. No intentional disrespect to the original Apollo team, but now is the time to embrace reuse, save cost and maintain safety for our current corps.

I have not heard any discussion of directing contact to the White House or Congress directly (around/over the Chain of Command, always my MO). I would recommend that to all.

[brihath]

Just listening to the show again, I have to 110% agree with Andrews closing comments regarding getting us out of LEO again.   That was a really great line to close the show on.

Ross.

Ross- I just listened to the show and you offered an outstanding polemic regarding DIRECT.  I don't think you are going to have to buy any drinks on the 30th.  You ably served the Direct cause with an excellent point by point argument.  Nice job standing your ground respectfully with a couple of the Apollo Program's finest.   Great job!! 

[JMSC]

Just listening to the show again, I have to 110% agree with Andrew Chaikin's closing comments regarding getting us out of LEO again.   That was a really great line to close the show on.

Ross.

I also thought Ira Plato did an excellent job as host.  He was quite balanced and gave everyone time to resond and present their views.  I just wish he could do a full hour show on future manned space exploration options.

[kraisee]

I have not heard any discussion of directing contact to the White House or Congress directly (around/over the Chain of Command, always my MO). I would recommend that to all.

First, welcome to the forum!   You'll find a LOT of engineers and experienced people on this site and I just get a feeling you are going to find yourself quite at home here!

Could I ask you to clarify what sort of 'contact' you are specifically talking about there?

Ross.

[adamsmith]

Just listening to the show again, I have to 110% agree with Andrews closing comments regarding getting us out of LEO again.   That was a really great line to close the show on.

Ross.

Ross- I just listened to the show and you offered an outstanding polemic regarding DIRECT.  I don't think you are going to have to buy any drinks on the 30th.  You ably served the Direct cause with an excellent point by point argument.  Nice job standing your ground respectfully with a couple of the Apollo Program's finest.   Great job!! 

I second the motion.

Stan

[brihath]

Any word on where the Augustine Commission is holding the public hearing in Cocoa Beach on 7/30?  The NASA web site still says TBD.

[kraisee]

Brihath,
According to: http://galaxywire.net/tag/augustine-commission/

The Review of U.S. Human Space Flight Plans Committee will hold three public meetings July 28-30. The meetings are open to news media representatives. No registration is required, but seating is limited to location capacity.

The first meeting will be July 28 from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. CDT at the South Shore Harbour Resort and Conference Center, 2500 South Shore Blvd. in League City, Texas. Agenda topics include NASA’s Johnson Space Center operations, NASA’s Constellation program, committee sub-group reports and public comments.

The second session will be July 29 from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. EDT at the Davidson/U.S. Space and Rocket Center, 1 Tranquility Base, in Huntsville, Ala. Agenda topics include NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center operations, committee sub-group reports, NASA’s Constellation program and public comments.

The third public session will be July 30 from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. EDT at the Hilton Cocoa Beach Oceanfront Grand Ballroom, 1550 North Atlantic Avenue, in Cocoa Beach, Fla. Agenda topics will include NASA’s Kennedy Space Center operations, committee sub-group reports, NASA’s Constellation program and public comments.


I believe this is correct.

Ross.

[cro-magnon gramps]

Thanks for all the compliments guys.   The response really makes me feel very humble.

And you lot really have no clue just how terrified I get doing these things!    But I survived.   And its all for a great cause, so I guess I need to just keep on doing it

Ross.

You went to the wall and did more than survive, you made your point in a somewhat adverse environment... I don't think J.L. took kindly to your idea that Direct could do better than NASA... almost sensed a religious belief in the agency from him...
   anyway, try number 2 with the first 33 minutes of the program... cut out last 10 minutes which I already uploaded... and the station breaks and acreditations of the Public Broadcast supports... it is on the cusp of being too big, at 20.3mb, so this is a test at 96kps... may have to reduce the kps some more if this does not work... ok, came back, cut to 80kps... 16mb... you got some strong protection there Chris

[brihath]

Brihath,
According to: http://galaxywire.net/tag/augustine-commission/

The Review of U.S. Human Space Flight Plans Committee will hold three public meetings July 28-30. The meetings are open to news media representatives. No registration is required, but seating is limited to location capacity.

The first meeting will be July 28 from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. CDT at the South Shore Harbour Resort and Conference Center, 2500 South Shore Blvd. in League City, Texas. Agenda topics include NASA’s Johnson Space Center operations, NASA’s Constellation program, committee sub-group reports and public comments.

The second session will be July 29 from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. EDT at the Davidson/U.S. Space and Rocket Center, 1 Tranquility Base, in Huntsville, Ala. Agenda topics include NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center operations, committee sub-group reports, NASA’s Constellation program and public comments.

The third public session will be July 30 from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. EDT at the Hilton Cocoa Beach Oceanfront Grand Ballroom, 1550 North Atlantic Avenue, in Cocoa Beach, Fla. Agenda topics will include NASA’s Kennedy Space Center operations, committee sub-group reports, NASA’s Constellation program and public comments.


I believe this is correct.

Ross.

Oceanfront???  I'll bring my suit and flip-flops! :-)

[drdave]

Brihath,
According to: http://galaxywire.net/tag/augustine-commission/

The third public session will be July 30 from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. EDT at the Hilton Cocoa Beach Oceanfront Grand Ballroom, 1550 North Atlantic Avenue, in Cocoa Beach, Fla. Agenda topics will include NASA’s Kennedy Space Center operations, committee sub-group reports, NASA’s Constellation program and public comments.


I believe this is correct.

Ross.

Ross, according to the HSF Review website:

Public Meeting - Washington, D.C.
August 5th, 2009 - TBD
Washington, D.C.
No Pre-Registration Required

I read "No Pre-Registration" to mean that if we are there early enough, we can get in.  True?

[Andrewwski]

http://www.filefront.com/14064565/Science_Friday_July-17-2009.mp3

Entire program from today, both first and second hours.  The first hour is the one on Apollo/NASA.  Ross is on at about 35 minutes in.