With all of the Orion-Lite talk on here, I thought I would start a separate thread for the other Orion-alternative...SpaceX's Dragon. While an Orion-Lite could be a good potential test bed for the future CEV, it would need to grow into the NASA Orion for exploration missions. From what I have read on here, SpaceX is with some modifications, Dragon could be used for exploration type flights. For LEO Dragon could be launched on a Falcon 9 or any other EELV. And for exploration missions, it could fly on a SDLV. I like the idea of the basic LEO spacecraft being a testbed for the future exploration spacecraft. I think we can work out a lot of bugs in LEO and ISS before going on a longer exploration mission.
...I like the idea of the basic LEO spacecraft being a testbed for the future exploration spacecraft. I think we can work out a lot of bugs in LEO and ISS before going on a longer exploration mission.
Elon has done a very good job of designing, with plans to upgrade with minimal changes in the future. Falcon 1 upgraded to Falcon 1e. Falcon 9 upgrades to Falcon 9 Block 2. Falcon 9 block 2 expands to Falcon 9 heavy. Dragon cargo with minor changes becomes becomes Dragon Lab. Dragon cargo, with modest changes becomes a Dragon Crew capsule capable for LEO.
Elon has done a very good job of designing, ...
Mr. Musk hired lots of people smarter than he is <snip>
Quote from: Variable on 08/17/2009 10:40 pmMr. Musk hired lots of people smarter than he is <snip>No, he hired the right talent to create the team. He did not hire people that are *smarter* than him.
Quote from: clongton on 08/17/2009 11:02 pmQuote from: Variable on 08/17/2009 10:40 pmMr. Musk hired lots of people smarter than he is <snip>No, he hired the right talent to create the team. He did not hire people that are *smarter* than him.I guess we differ on the definition of "smarter" or what?
Quote from: Variable on 08/17/2009 11:11 pmQuote from: clongton on 08/17/2009 11:02 pmQuote from: Variable on 08/17/2009 10:40 pmMr. Musk hired lots of people smarter than he is <snip>No, he hired the right talent to create the team. He did not hire people that are *smarter* than him.I guess we differ on the definition of "smarter" or what? I believe Chuck is right on the money. Elon created a team with the right skill set. Smart is a very relative term. As a matter of fact having an extraordinary IQ doesn't tell much about your ability to design a rocket.
If anything he created an environment with a vision, funding, and an acceptance of good failures. What is a good failure? Fast cheap failures that you can learn from are better than paralysis by analysis.
Um, technically, Elon is the Chief Designer at SpaceX. And if you think he's not smart... Integrating two launch vehicle and one spacecraft programs on an annual budget of less than $200 million?May I point out that Falcon 9 has about half the payload to LEO of Ares I, and Dragon carries as many crew as Orion (more now). Reasonable estimates put Dragon at 2 years and $200 million from carrying 6 crew to ISS. Orion is what, 9 years now (for the ISS only version), and how many $ billions?A reasonable plan might use the Dragon (or other crew-cab) for launch to LEO and re-entry only. A dedicated transfer habitat would provide the radiation protection and long term life support.
From comments Elon has made, I feel that Elon's vision reaches beyond LEO. I would not be surprised if he doesn't already have plans in mind for upgrading his Dragon Crew capsule for LEO, to a Dragon Crew capsule for beyond LEO. I don't know how he will do it, but if he keeps true to form, the upgrade will be done as a vNow is the time to look ahead, to what will come next. Depending on what Elon has in mind, I wouldn't count out a upgraded (or new Dragon 2) for beyond LEO.
Quote from: gladiator1332 on 08/17/2009 06:56 pmWith all of the Orion-Lite talk on here, I thought I would start a separate thread for the other Orion-alternative...SpaceX's Dragon. While an Orion-Lite could be a good potential test bed for the future CEV, it would need to grow into the NASA Orion for exploration missions. From what I have read on here, SpaceX is with some modifications, Dragon could be used for exploration type flights. For LEO Dragon could be launched on a Falcon 9 or any other EELV. And for exploration missions, it could fly on a SDLV. I like the idea of the basic LEO spacecraft being a testbed for the future exploration spacecraft. I think we can work out a lot of bugs in LEO and ISS before going on a longer exploration mission. The problem is that the shape of the dragon capsule does not allow as much lift as the apollo-derived shape of orion. You would either have to (1) beef up the base heat shield and the sides of the capsule and fly a very hot direct entry(2) fly a zond-style skip reentryor (3) do an aerocapture followed by aerobraking.The heat shield material PICA used by spacex is certainly capable of a hyberbolic reentry if you use enough of it.Other modifications would be increased radiation shielding and a different life support system.I am sure that mr. musk has considered using dragon beyond LEO. But we should maybe wait for the first successful falcon 9 launch before speculating about something like this.
Quote from: R.Simko on 08/17/2009 08:32 pmElon has done a very good job of designing, ... Elon this and that.Lets not fall into some cult of personality situation. Mr. Musk hired lots of people smarter than he is who are doing the work, and no doubt heavily influencing "the vision."We can applaud and cheer the man for what he's trying to do (and I do) but we need not contribute to his ego with such gusto and misdirection.