Atmos-6 and CRS-7 were not testing programs. The Dragon 2 explosion was a test, but also happened very late in the development of the spacecraft, catching everyone by surprise, delaying the Commercial Crew program, and raising more that a few eyebrows in the process.So, I don't think your argument holds any water.
The Boeing Starliner and SpaceX Crew Dragon contracts were awarded simultaneously in 2014 with both companies expected to fly their crewed flight tests in 2017. Crew Dragon was almost three years late. By contrast, Starliner will only be five years late, if they fly successfully in December.
I would add to this that CCP showed that space flight is not easy, even if you are SpaceX or Boeing.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/10/since-crew-dragons-debut-spacex-has-flown-more-astronauts-than-anyone/QuoteSince Crew Dragon’s debut, SpaceX has flown more astronauts than anyone"Thank you for an incredible ride up to orbit and an incredible ride home."ERIC BERGER - 10/14/2022, 10:57 PMFrom the article marking Crew-4s return:QuoteIn a little more than two years, SpaceX has surpassed the total number of astronauts launched into orbit by China, whose human spaceflight program dates back to 2003; and in the time Crew Dragon has been operational, it has exceeded even the Russian Soyuz vehicle in terms of the total number of people flown into space during that period.
Since Crew Dragon’s debut, SpaceX has flown more astronauts than anyone"Thank you for an incredible ride up to orbit and an incredible ride home."ERIC BERGER - 10/14/2022, 10:57 PM
In a little more than two years, SpaceX has surpassed the total number of astronauts launched into orbit by China, whose human spaceflight program dates back to 2003; and in the time Crew Dragon has been operational, it has exceeded even the Russian Soyuz vehicle in terms of the total number of people flown into space during that period.
SpaceX has taken 30 people to space in less than 2.5 years, notably more than anyone else:Quote from: FutureSpaceTourist on 10/16/2022 07:53 amhttps://arstechnica.com/science/2022/10/since-crew-dragons-debut-spacex-has-flown-more-astronauts-than-anyone/QuoteSince Crew Dragon’s debut, SpaceX has flown more astronauts than anyone"Thank you for an incredible ride up to orbit and an incredible ride home."ERIC BERGER - 10/14/2022, 10:57 PMFrom the article marking Crew-4s return:QuoteIn a little more than two years, SpaceX has surpassed the total number of astronauts launched into orbit by China, whose human spaceflight program dates back to 2003; and in the time Crew Dragon has been operational, it has exceeded even the Russian Soyuz vehicle in terms of the total number of people flown into space during that period.Even assuming Starliner comes online in the next few months, I don’t see SpaceX’s crewed flight rate dropping (with non-NASA missions for Polaris and Axiom). Hard to see who else will achieve a similar rate.
Over the course of 30 years, the Space Shuttle flew 355 humans. That would bring the rate to 29 humans every 2.5 years. So Dragon and Space X is doing a little better for now and will eclipse that rate in the future with passenger Starships. Source
It is too bad Dragon went down to 4 from 7. But again, we’re just waiting for Starship which ought to blow all these out of the water in a few years.
Quote from: Robotbeat on 10/17/2022 07:24 pmIt is too bad Dragon went down to 4 from 7. But again, we’re just waiting for Starship which ought to blow all these out of the water in a few years.852 humans from 0 to 25k aboard Starship, that'll be the day. I wonder how long we'll have to wait? It's going to be a fascinating journey regardless.
Quote from: spacenut on 07/15/2022 01:37 pmShuttle could deliver a maximum of 16,050 kg to the ISS which includes crew. Dragon II can deliver 6,000 kg of pressurized and 500 kg of unpressurized cargo to ISS. A second Dragon II with crew would have to be launched to = a shuttle launch. Cost of Shuttle flight was over $1 billion per flight. Cost of Dragon II is about $150+ million per flight. Cost of a Dragon II with crew is $250 million+. Add the two SpaceX flights together for a crew + cargo similar to shuttle to be say $500 million vs $1 billion+ for a Shuttle flight. So SpaceX is cheaper, especially with a used booster. So SpaceX's cost is at least half the cost of a shuttle. I am just guessing based on various threads here. Actual shuttle costs may have been higher. Someone with actual figures may chime in with actual costs. Shuttle made space flight look easy with the exception of the two shuttle losses. SpaceX is now doing the same. Hopefully there will be no crew losses. Early on SpaceX lost a cargo launch. A shuttle loss was far more expensive to overcome. And if you needed to deliver a new big piece of the ISS today, you could use a Falcon Heavy for less than the cost of a Shuttle flight, so even that capability of the Shuttle is covered.
Shuttle could deliver a maximum of 16,050 kg to the ISS which includes crew. Dragon II can deliver 6,000 kg of pressurized and 500 kg of unpressurized cargo to ISS. A second Dragon II with crew would have to be launched to = a shuttle launch. Cost of Shuttle flight was over $1 billion per flight. Cost of Dragon II is about $150+ million per flight. Cost of a Dragon II with crew is $250 million+. Add the two SpaceX flights together for a crew + cargo similar to shuttle to be say $500 million vs $1 billion+ for a Shuttle flight. So SpaceX is cheaper, especially with a used booster. So SpaceX's cost is at least half the cost of a shuttle. I am just guessing based on various threads here. Actual shuttle costs may have been higher. Someone with actual figures may chime in with actual costs. Shuttle made space flight look easy with the exception of the two shuttle losses. SpaceX is now doing the same. Hopefully there will be no crew losses. Early on SpaceX lost a cargo launch. A shuttle loss was far more expensive to overcome.
It would be useful for the ISS Axiom missions, ie surge capacity at ISS like Shuttle did.
Quote from: Robotbeat on 10/17/2022 08:10 pmIt would be useful for the ISS Axiom missions, ie surge capacity at ISS like Shuttle did.They would need much more living space to accommodate additional people. Shuttle had its own. Look, I'm not saying 7-seat Dragon would never be needed. Just that it's not needed right now.
Quote from: gsa on 10/18/2022 03:20 pmQuote from: Robotbeat on 10/17/2022 08:10 pmIt would be useful for the ISS Axiom missions, ie surge capacity at ISS like Shuttle did.They would need much more living space to accommodate additional people. Shuttle had its own. Look, I'm not saying 7-seat Dragon would never be needed. Just that it's not needed right now.Use an Orion. May as well get something useful out of it.
1) A customer came to SpaceX's headquarters asking about a version of Crew Dragon capable of at least 7 people that also meets NASA's requirements.2) Said customer pays SpaceX for it to conduct an initial study on what it would take to design and develop the crew version of 'Dragon 3', including potential cost for that design.3) if SpaceX determines it's viable, customer pays for SpaceX to complete the the design.4) While 'Dragon 3' is being designed, the customer orders and pays for enough missions using that new design for SpaceX to justify building at least two of the Crew Dragon 3 capsule.
Quote from: gsa on 10/18/2022 03:20 pmQuote from: Robotbeat on 10/17/2022 08:10 pmIt would be useful for the ISS Axiom missions, ie surge capacity at ISS like Shuttle did.They would need much more living space to accommodate additional people. Shuttle had its own. Look, I'm not saying 7-seat Dragon would never be needed. Just that it's not needed right now.Think either the Axiom modules or less likely a modified Cygnus pressurized cargo module will increase the ISS accommodation capacity.