Author Topic: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2  (Read 1325696 times)

Offline vsatman

Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3320 on: 11/12/2021 03:25 pm »
The dish is 59 cm.

Yes , dish is 59 cm, but antenna size is only 48 cm , see file

Offline vsatman

Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3321 on: 11/12/2021 03:35 pm »
How about the new dish?
new dish  is  50 x 30 cm, antenna size 48 x 29 cm
BUT!!! is very important  that
Aperture efficiency is 74%  (for UT1 is only 57%)
Maximum Transmit Duty Cycle is 14% (for UT1 is only11%)

Summary - Gain is the same, Download speed  the same , Upload speed will be   about 25% better..

Offline oldAtlas_Eguy

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5308
  • Florida
  • Liked: 5010
  • Likes Given: 1509
Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3322 on: 11/12/2021 05:48 pm »
How about the new dish?
new dish  is  50 x 30 cm, antenna size 48 x 29 cm
BUT!!! is very important  that
Aperture efficiency is 74%  (for UT1 is only 57%)
Maximum Transmit Duty Cycle is 14% (for UT1 is only11%)

Summary - Gain is the same, Download speed  the same , Upload speed will be   about 25% better..
Thanks great summary of improvements.

Offline envy887

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8166
  • Liked: 6836
  • Likes Given: 2972
Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3323 on: 11/12/2021 06:00 pm »
How about the new dish?
new dish  is  50 x 30 cm, antenna size 48 x 29 cm
BUT!!! is very important  that
Aperture efficiency is 74%  (for UT1 is only 57%)
Maximum Transmit Duty Cycle is 14% (for UT1 is only11%)

Summary - Gain is the same, Download speed  the same , Upload speed will be   about 25% better..

Where are those efficiency numbers from?

Offline snotis

Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3324 on: 11/12/2021 06:12 pm »
Doing a very rough approximation of capabilities between the two:

Area x Aperture efficiency x Maximum Transmit Duty Cycle:

UT1: 1809.5 cm2 x 57% x 11% = 113.5
New UT: 1030.1 cm2 x 74% x 14% = 144.2

New UT about 27% more capable.

How about the new dish?
new dish  is  50 x 30 cm, antenna size 48 x 29 cm
BUT!!! is very important  that
Aperture efficiency is 74%  (for UT1 is only 57%)
Maximum Transmit Duty Cycle is 14% (for UT1 is only11%)

Summary - Gain is the same, Download speed  the same , Upload speed will be   about 25% better..

Offline su27k

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6414
  • Liked: 9104
  • Likes Given: 885
Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3325 on: 11/13/2021 03:46 am »
Nov 10th SpaceX presentation to FCC regarding Gen2: https://licensing.fcc.gov/myibfs/download.do?attachment_key=13397140

Nothing new about Gen2, but has update for current constellation:
- Currently serving ~140,000 users in 20+ countries (production slowed by shipchip shortage)
- Over 750,000 orders/deposits globally

Previous presentation on August 2nd has "~90,000 users in 12 countries, half a million orders/deposits globally"
« Last Edit: 11/13/2021 03:51 am by su27k »

Offline vsatman

Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3326 on: 11/13/2021 07:16 am »
Where are those efficiency numbers from?

Offline su27k

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6414
  • Liked: 9104
  • Likes Given: 885
Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3327 on: 11/14/2021 05:19 am »
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1459495065206853637
Quote
Inter-satellite laser communications means Starlink can carry data at speed of light in vacuum all around Earth before touching ground.

Over time, some amount of communication can simply be from one user terminal to another without touching the Internet.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1459500803245461506
Quote
Q: My parents are about to travel the earth by boat and it would be great if they could use Starlink for their voyage!

A: Should work everywhere for global maritime by roughly middle of next year (enough sats with laser links launched). Until then, it will be patchy when far from land.

Offline su27k

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6414
  • Liked: 9104
  • Likes Given: 885
Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3328 on: 11/17/2021 02:38 am »
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1460666670494543875
Quote
Bruno mentions that constellations are limiting launch windows. SpaceX’s Bill Gerstenmaier then mentions that SpaceX worked with ULA to provide more accurate Starlink data to free up windows for the Lucy launch. #ascendspace


Gerst adds that Russia’s ASAT test “created more debris than any megaconstellation”; a “huge mess.”

Bruno: there has to be consequences for that kind of behavior. #ascendspace


Offline ulm_atms

  • Rocket Junky
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 945
  • To boldly go where no government has gone before.
  • Liked: 1598
  • Likes Given: 861
Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3329 on: 11/24/2021 12:19 am »
Well, Starlink.com updated a lot of pre-orders today.  Most everyone that has mid to late 2021....doesn't anymore....

I now have mid 2022......

Does ANYONE know what the roll out issue is in the USA?  They say chip shortages...but I see many post daily of people in other countries all over the world getting their dishy shipped right when they order...but rarely see anyone in the states post getting one.  I am just :o about what is going on at this point with it.  I just feel that there has got to be something else besides the chips going on.

Offline AC in NC

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2484
  • Raleigh NC
  • Liked: 3630
  • Likes Given: 1950
Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3330 on: 11/24/2021 01:54 am »
Well, Starlink.com updated a lot of pre-orders today.  Most everyone that has mid to late 2021....doesn't anymore....

I now have mid 2022......

Does ANYONE know what the roll out issue is in the USA?  They say chip shortages...but I see many post daily of people in other countries all over the world getting their dishy shipped right when they order...but rarely see anyone in the states post getting one.  I am just :o about what is going on at this point with it.  I just feel that there has got to be something else besides the chips going on.

I don't have any insight at all but why would it be anything more complicated than that they've allocated various allotments to each country to support the desired penetration and cell-loading.  Dishy's were reported to be expensive so they cannot have just produced at will and so it seems obvious that it's allocation.

Offline su27k

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6414
  • Liked: 9104
  • Likes Given: 885
Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3331 on: 11/24/2021 02:14 am »
Starlink update email posted on reddit:

Quote
Thank you for being a supporter of Starlink! Over 14 million people have inquired about Starlink service in their area and today Starlink is available in over 20 countries (and counting).

The Starlink team has been working hard to expand service and increase capacity while continuously improving quality of service. We will be able to accommodate more users per area as we increase the number of satellites in orbit.

Check delivery timelines in your account

Silicon shortages over the last 6 months have slowed our expected production rate and impacted our ability to fulfill many Starlink orders this year. We apologize for the delay and are working hard across our engineering, supply chain, and production teams to improve and streamline our product and factory to increase our production rate.

You can check estimated delivery times by logging into your account page on Starlink.com. You will still receive an email from the Starlink team when your order is ready to ship, and you may cancel your order at any time for a full refund of your deposit.

Latest Starlink now in production

We recently released the latest version of Starlink which was designed for high volume manufacturing. The latest version of Starlink has comparable performance to the previous version and will begin to ship globally next year.

Expanding to more countries across the world

Since our October 2020 launch in the United States we have expanded our service to 20 additional countries: Canada, United Kingdom, Germany, New Zealand, Australia, Austria, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Ireland, Switzerland, Portugal, Chile, Poland, Italy, Czech Republic, Mexico, Sweden, and Croatia. Pending regulatory approval, we are planning to launch in an additional 45+ new countries by the end of 2022.

More satellites in orbit with newer technology

We recently completed our 31st Starlink launch with our latest generation of satellites that are equipped with inter-satellite laser links, which enable our satellites to transfer data between each other. Once fully deployed, inter-satellite laser links will make Starlink one of the fastest options available to transfer data around the world.

Thank you for your continued support!

The Starlink Team

Offline Mandella

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 525
  • Liked: 802
  • Likes Given: 2669
Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3332 on: 11/24/2021 02:42 am »
Well, Starlink.com updated a lot of pre-orders today.  Most everyone that has mid to late 2021....doesn't anymore....

I now have mid 2022......

Does ANYONE know what the roll out issue is in the USA?  They say chip shortages...but I see many post daily of people in other countries all over the world getting their dishy shipped right when they order...but rarely see anyone in the states post getting one.  I am just :o about what is going on at this point with it.  I just feel that there has got to be something else besides the chips going on.

What do you suggest? I'm sure their production is not running as fast as they wanted (it never does), plus the chip shortage is not going to make that any better.

Starlink is not vaporware -- people have dishes and they are working fine. They have not run out of money. Satellites are still being launched. Dishes are being shipped to other countries than yours because SpaceX wants global coverage and is going to get the foot in the door in as many places as it can to get ahead of competition.

Am I disappointed? Sure. In fact, I'm seriously thinking about switching to the competition. Whups, there is none here. So they get to keep my deposit until either they come through or somebody else decides to serve my area with something competitive.

At this point I'd just as soon wait a bit more and get the new dish...

Offline vsatman

Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3333 on: 11/24/2021 11:01 am »
is going to get the foot in the door in as many places as it can to get ahead of competition.
Sorry, who do you mean by a competitor??

all fiber or satellite via GSO are not competitor...

Offline envy887

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8166
  • Liked: 6836
  • Likes Given: 2972
Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3334 on: 11/24/2021 02:57 pm »
is going to get the foot in the door in as many places as it can to get ahead of competition.
Sorry, who do you mean by a competitor??

all fiber or satellite via GSO are not competitor...

That's a good question. Is anyone else doing, or about to do, low-latency satellite broadband direct to consumers? Kuiper seems to be the only one.

ISTM overseas customers are getting service faster because the sats have a lot more available bandwidth over those areas than they do over North America. https://starlinkstatus.space/ supports this, with UK/FR/DE and AU customers typically getting significantly better download speeds than US and CA over the last couple months .
« Last Edit: 11/24/2021 02:57 pm by envy887 »

Offline vsatman

Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3335 on: 11/24/2021 03:24 pm »
ISTM overseas customers are getting service faster because the sats have a lot more available bandwidth over those areas than they do over North America. https://starlinkstatus.space/ supports this, with UK/FR/DE and AU customers typically getting significantly better download speeds than US and CA over the last couple months .

I completely agree!

Offline ulm_atms

  • Rocket Junky
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 945
  • To boldly go where no government has gone before.
  • Liked: 1598
  • Likes Given: 861
Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3336 on: 11/24/2021 03:43 pm »
is going to get the foot in the door in as many places as it can to get ahead of competition.
Sorry, who do you mean by a competitor??

all fiber or satellite via GSO are not competitor...

That's a good question. Is anyone else doing, or about to do, low-latency satellite broadband direct to consumers? Kuiper seems to be the only one.

ISTM overseas customers are getting service faster because the sats have a lot more available bandwidth over those areas than they do over North America. https://starlinkstatus.space/ supports this, with UK/FR/DE and AU customers typically getting significantly better download speeds than US and CA over the last couple months .

So is it an amount of sats issue or a GW bandwidth/number of sats each GW can feed issue?  I'm leaning towards the GW side from everything I have read to date but always willing to hear other peoples interpretation.  There seems to be enough sats over the US at any given time but without the laser interlinks, the GW's have to handle all traffic and there are only so many gateways in the US....

I mean...I'm waiting as I have no other choice, but saying "chip" issue for the CPE is the reason the rollout is slow but then them seeming to add dishys at many supercharger stations instead of people who already put money down just plain looks bad IMO IF...and I stress the IF....the reason is because they can't make dishys fast enough.

Don't get me wrong, I am not really being impatient about it....but Starlink really needs to work on their customer service at this point.  I know they hired someone specifically for that it seems....but it really needs work.  Just a truthful update once a month or two would be quite welcome and would quite a lot of the people really screaming about it.  I signed up for beta as soon as I possibly could.  I pre-ordered Feb 9th @ 8am.  I have gotten exactly 2 email since I signed up for beta...the day I put my deposit down and yesterday.

I just don't understand what they gain by being so secretive about it personally.  They build the next gen rockets/engines in the open for all to see both good and bad and be fully transparent in almost all regards...but then act like BO's PR team with Starlink.  :o

Offline Mandella

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 525
  • Liked: 802
  • Likes Given: 2669
Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3337 on: 11/24/2021 05:18 pm »
is going to get the foot in the door in as many places as it can to get ahead of competition.
Sorry, who do you mean by a competitor??

all fiber or satellite via GSO are not competitor...

By competitor I mean anybody that can get real broadband to rural areas at a competitive price. Speaking for myself, that could be cable (ha ha out here), that could even be Viasat upping my cap and lowering my price (right now I am paying $165 for 100 gigs a month), that could be Verizon putting up an extra cell tower so that I could actually get 4G, it could even be a WISP.

I'm assuming the same holds true in other countries. Starlink may well spur the deployment of competitive options, which is great for the people who have been underserved, but not great for Starlink.

That's not even considering the half UK owned OneWeb, or am I wrong in considering them a competitor?

Offline Tomness

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 673
  • Into the abyss will I run
  • Liked: 298
  • Likes Given: 744
Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3338 on: 11/24/2021 05:23 pm »
is going to get the foot in the door in as many places as it can to get ahead of competition.
Sorry, who do you mean by a competitor??

all fiber or satellite via GSO are not competitor...

By competitor I mean anybody that can get real broadband to rural areas at a competitive price. Speaking for myself, that could be cable (ha ha out here), that could even be Viasat upping my cap and lowering my price (right now I am paying $165 for 100 gigs a month), that could be Verizon putting up an extra cell tower so that I could actually get 4G, it could even be a WISP.

I'm assuming the same holds true in other countries. Starlink may well spur the deployment of competitive options, which is great for the people who have been underserved, but not great for Starlink.

That's not even considering the half UK owned OneWeb, or am I wrong in considering them a competitor?

Hopefully you have a Electric Co-op running Fiber to house and get that sonner

Offline Mandella

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 525
  • Liked: 802
  • Likes Given: 2669
Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3339 on: 11/24/2021 05:42 pm »
is going to get the foot in the door in as many places as it can to get ahead of competition.
Sorry, who do you mean by a competitor??

all fiber or satellite via GSO are not competitor...

That's a good question. Is anyone else doing, or about to do, low-latency satellite broadband direct to consumers? Kuiper seems to be the only one.

ISTM overseas customers are getting service faster because the sats have a lot more available bandwidth over those areas than they do over North America. https://starlinkstatus.space/ supports this, with UK/FR/DE and AU customers typically getting significantly better download speeds than US and CA over the last couple months .

So is it an amount of sats issue or a GW bandwidth/number of sats each GW can feed issue?  I'm leaning towards the GW side from everything I have read to date but always willing to hear other peoples interpretation.  There seems to be enough sats over the US at any given time but without the laser interlinks, the GW's have to handle all traffic and there are only so many gateways in the US....

I mean...I'm waiting as I have no other choice, but saying "chip" issue for the CPE is the reason the rollout is slow but then them seeming to add dishys at many supercharger stations instead of people who already put money down just plain looks bad IMO IF...and I stress the IF....the reason is because they can't make dishys fast enough.

Don't get me wrong, I am not really being impatient about it....but Starlink really needs to work on their customer service at this point.  I know they hired someone specifically for that it seems....but it really needs work.  Just a truthful update once a month or two would be quite welcome and would quite a lot of the people really screaming about it.  I signed up for beta as soon as I possibly could.  I pre-ordered Feb 9th @ 8am.  I have gotten exactly 2 email since I signed up for beta...the day I put my deposit down and yesterday.

I just don't understand what they gain by being so secretive about it personally.  They build the next gen rockets/engines in the open for all to see both good and bad and be fully transparent in almost all regards...but then act like BO's PR team with Starlink.  :o

I do see your point. But I also see the counterpoint that any communication other than "your dish is shipped" is going to be seen by many (very many) as "just an excuse." It's really a danged if you do, danged if you don't situation.

I know COVID happened that slowed everything down. I know that there is a chip shortage that is affecting a lot more than just Starlink. I know that general manufacturing and shipping is pretty much a disaster right now. I've waited for nearly a year for a new freezer before finally cancelling my order. I'm having trouble getting basic supplies for my own business.

So yeah, they got what they got and they're trying to serve all their obligations -- and I bet those dishes at the Supercharger stations are in existing cells that have already been opened. And they need dishes for countries that they have previously made arrangements with or maybe lose those arrangements.

But I do understand -- I was hoping against hope that I'd get my Dishy this summer. Now next summer seems more likely. But as a businessguy who is also having to disappoint some customers I'm also understanding Starlink's problems.

Tags: pole flip 
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
0