Author Topic: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2  (Read 1154184 times)

Offline su27k

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3280 on: 10/07/2021 01:32 pm »
Nothing obviously interesting jumps out with regard to failure details, the measures they took to minimize collision probability for satellites lost propulsion but still have attitude control is new. But more interesting to me is the following complaint:

Seriously?  The complaint is nothing new.  The answers to the questions are the most detailed account they've given of how they manage collision avoidance with impaired satellites and what kind of failures they've experienced.

The collision avoidance with impaired satellites stuff is what we'd expect given the constraints, it's nice to confirm what method they're using, but I don't think there's anything particularly novel here.

For the complaint, I don't mean the complaint itself is interesting, what I find interesting is that the complaint implies another NGSO had a satellite anomaly but is not disclosing it, and other operators publicly casting doubt about automated collision avoidance system but privately asking SpaceX to use it to help them, I don't think we've heard of these before.

Offline Rondaz

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3281 on: 10/08/2021 11:52 am »
Starlink satellites can be used to change flight path of missiles — Roscosmos chief.

According to Rogozin, Starlink can also be used to deliver "purely political, and, most likely, anti-Russian content" directly to mobile phones.

7 OCT, 18:53

MOSCOW, October 7. /TASS/. /TASS/. Roscosmos Director General Dmitry Rogozin believes that Starlink satellites, launched by Elon Musk’s company SpaceX, can be used for military purposes in the future, including for changing the flight path of cruise missiles and managing spy networks.

"This year, they [SpaceX] received about $900 million [in state subsidies], the entire subsidy for the forthcoming period is $20 billion. So, a question arises: why would the government do that? And the answer is: those spacecraft provide internet connection, they can become a platform for steering cruise missiles, for changing their flight path when they are already in flight. [They can also be used] for sending orders to special forces, to networks of agents," he said.

According to Rogozin, Starlink can also be used to deliver "purely political, and, most likely, anti-Russian content" directly to mobile phones.

Rogozin went on to say that by now, about 1,800 Starlink satellites were delivered to the orbit. The next state of the project envisages the launch of 17,000 spacecraft. Eventually, Starlink’s orbital constellation will comprise about 42,000 satellites.

"We won’t just sit and wait, of course. We have our own project, Sfera. It was presented to the president earlier this year, and we plan to orbit hundreds of our own satellites to protect our sovereignty," Rogozin said.

https://tass.com/science/1347023

Online Zed_Noir

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3282 on: 10/08/2021 12:54 pm »
<snip>
According to Rogozin, Starlink can also be used to deliver "purely political, and, most likely, anti-Russian content" directly to mobile phones.
<snip>


Huh. AIUI Starlink requires a ground terminal not a mobile handset. So Rogozin is building up a Starlink Bogeyman to get budget to set up a large Russian LEO constellation. Which the Russians currently seems to not able to fielded.

Offline cosmicvoid

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3283 on: 10/09/2021 02:09 am »
Got my Starlink kit a few days ago, and lashed the dish onto the top of my chimney. It took about 10 minutes to find a satellite and connect. Preliminary speed tests show from 50 to 200 mb/s down and 15 to 40 mb/s up. The outages are frequent but very short... so far.

I like the Starlink app's statistics reporting, showing time & duration of outages/obstructions. Unfortunately, the Starlink router is pretty primative, so I picked up a TP-Link ER605 Multi-WAN router and configured it to do automatic fallback switching to my old DSL modem, and include my existing LAN. So far, so good, time will tell. But I miss the diagnostics that the Starlink router provides.
Infiinity or bust.

Offline Mandella

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3284 on: 10/09/2021 02:19 am »
Got my Starlink kit a few days ago, and lashed the dish onto the top of my chimney. It took about 10 minutes to find a satellite and connect. Preliminary speed tests show from 50 to 200 mb/s down and 15 to 40 mb/s up. The outages are frequent but very short... so far.

I like the Starlink app's statistics reporting, showing time & duration of outages/obstructions. Unfortunately, the Starlink router is pretty primative, so I picked up a TP-Link ER605 Multi-WAN router and configured it to do automatic fallback switching to my old DSL modem, and include my existing LAN. So far, so good, time will tell. But I miss the diagnostics that the Starlink router provides.

If you are in the Seattle area I'm sorry to hear you are getting any outages at all. I would have hoped they would have good coverage at that latitude. You mentioned obstructions -- do you have trees or buildings blocking clear line of sight?

And how long are your outages?

Thanks for sharing, BTW...

Offline cosmicvoid

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3285 on: 10/09/2021 03:26 am »
If you are in the Seattle area I'm sorry to hear you are getting any outages at all. I would have hoped they would have good coverage at that latitude. You mentioned obstructions -- do you have trees or buildings blocking clear line of sight?

And how long are your outages?

I'm 12 miles NW of Seattle, out in "the sticks", surrounded by tall trees. The sky view is good to the north and south, but blocked by trees to the east and west. Most of the outages were just a few seconds, occuring perhaps 3 or 4 minutes apart. Depending on what programs were connected to the internet, you might not even notice these short disturbances. Other outages, say, 30 secs to a few minutes, did not happen often; I suspect those might have been obstructions from trees.

To really get a better idea of the disturbances, I'll have to reconnect the Starlink router and monitor the numbers for a while.
Infiinity or bust.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3286 on: 10/09/2021 04:48 am »
A paper attempting to apply NEPA to space: Major Federal Actions Significantly Affecting the Quality of the Space Environment: Applying NEPA to Federal and Federally Authorized Outer Space Activities

Quote
The United States’ landmark environmental law, the National Environmental
Policy Act (“NEPA”), requires U.S. federal agencies to consider the
environmental impacts of “major federal actions significantly affecting the
quality of the human environment.” The major agencies involved in space
activities or regulation generally limit their environmental reviews of space
activities, with only some consideration of terrestrial and space environmental
impacts. This review argues that NEPA and existing case law supports the
proposition that the “human environment” includes the “outer space
environment.” It reviews the historical role of space in human culture, emerging
commercial and scientific uses of space, and the potential impacts of NewSpace
activities on both the terrestrial and space environments. By examining statutory
language and legislative intent, this review finds that current agency practices
are likely not compliant with NEPA, particularly as they relate to not considering
terrestrial environmental impacts from federally-authorized space activities.
Current case law on NEPA extraterritoriality, particularly EDF v. Massey,
further supports the application of NEPA to the space environment. U.S.
spacecraft fall under the exclusive jurisdiction of the U.S., mitigating concerns
about the presumption against extraterritoriality. As NEPA is only a process
statute, including space environments are unlikely to hinder exploration or use of
space while informing the public about the full environmental impacts of human
space activities, consistent with NEPA’s original purpose.

I expect this will be weaponized and used against Starlink immediately.

Also 2nd author Monica Vidaurri is on the board of JustSpace Alliance, an anti-commercial space organization
Yeah, people claiming NEPA won't hinder exploration or use of space who are then simultaneously trying to use it to hinder use of space are just amazing to me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline su27k

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3287 on: 10/12/2021 03:45 am »
Elon Musk vs. Charlie Ergen: Battle of the Billionaires Over Spectrum

Quote from: WSJ
Elon Musk was adamant.

On a call last December with Ajit Pai, the Federal Communications Commission’s chairman at the time, Mr. Musk said that if the commission considered a proposal to begin the process of opening up a certain swath of wireless frequencies for ground-based 5G service, it would pose a threat to his Starlink satellite network, according to people familiar with the discussion.

Nothing new here, just a summary of what is happening. Although Tim Farrar aka TMF Associates is not naysaying for a change.

Offline su27k

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3288 on: 10/13/2021 03:40 am »
There was a moderate (G2) geomagnetic storm in the past 24 hours: https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/news/cme-9-october-2021-arrived-early-12-october-utc-day

Looks like Starlink is not affected.

Offline su27k

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3289 on: 10/15/2021 03:37 am »
Rwanda submits ITU filing for constellation of 327,320 satellites – 27 orbital shells at 550-640 km

Quote from: spaceintelreport.com
The government of Rwanda has submitted to international regulators a plan to launch 327,320 satellites into 550-640-kilometer orbits broadcasting in both L- and S-band.

The Rwandan constellation, named Cinnamon-217 and Cinnamon-937, is comprised of 27 orbital shells, with each shell except a single-plane equatorial shell made up of 12,970 satellites, bringing the total  to 327,320 satellites, according to Rwandan submissions to the International Telecommunication Union (ITU).

The constellation will include inter-satellite links using radio frequencies.

I don't think they're serious about launching these, I wonder if this is an attempt to force some kind of international regulation on the # of satellites in orbit, thus worth monitoring with regard to regulatory risks for Starlink.

Offline dondar

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3290 on: 10/15/2021 02:14 pm »
A paper attempting to apply NEPA to space: Major Federal Actions Significantly Affecting the Quality of the Space Environment: Applying NEPA to Federal and Federally Authorized Outer Space Activities

Quote
The United States’ landmark environmental law, the National Environmental
Policy Act (“NEPA”), requires U.S. federal agencies to consider the
environmental impacts of “major federal actions significantly affecting the
quality of the human environment.” The major agencies involved in space
activities or regulation generally limit their environmental reviews of space
activities, with only some consideration of terrestrial and space environmental
impacts. This review argues that NEPA and existing case law supports the
proposition that the “human environment” includes the “outer space
environment.” It reviews the historical role of space in human culture, emerging
commercial and scientific uses of space, and the potential impacts of NewSpace
activities on both the terrestrial and space environments. By examining statutory
language and legislative intent, this review finds that current agency practices
are likely not compliant with NEPA, particularly as they relate to not considering
terrestrial environmental impacts from federally-authorized space activities.
Current case law on NEPA extraterritoriality, particularly EDF v. Massey,
further supports the application of NEPA to the space environment. U.S.
spacecraft fall under the exclusive jurisdiction of the U.S., mitigating concerns
about the presumption against extraterritoriality. As NEPA is only a process
statute, including space environments are unlikely to hinder exploration or use of
space while informing the public about the full environmental impacts of human
space activities, consistent with NEPA’s original purpose.

I expect this will be weaponized and used against Starlink immediately.

Also 2nd author Monica Vidaurri is on the board of JustSpace Alliance, an anti-commercial space organization
No it won't. This is just one of 100s (literally) pieces written by the NASA "astrobiologists"(language corrector wants to correct this word into astrologist which ironically is very appropriate here). There exists an immense empty bubble of the "specialists" which will burst open if their "expertise" will be demanded in real applications. So they try hard, very very hard.
That lady fights with "imperialiZm in space" particularly which I find particularly amusing from somebody with american law degree.
 
But they don't have any real basis or power to protect their turf or impose their POV, because NEPA is not NASA and most importantly they don't want to become "NASA". NEPA made very clear statement on this topic, and until anybody will build a reasonable argument to expand NEPA sphere beyond breathable atmosphere  Starlink is safe.
P.S. Specifically about Massey case. It was about antarctic station improper waste disposal. Since it influences directly human beings such actions by american agents fall indeed into NEPA domain. (for example Sea Launch activities had american EIS FR Doc No: 99-4276).
« Last Edit: 10/15/2021 02:44 pm by gongora »

Offline su27k

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3291 on: 10/28/2021 05:55 am »
https://twitter.com/OsoroSatComs/status/1453090221181046791

Quote
Our new @IEEEAccess Access paper has been published. We model the #Engineering #Economics of #LowEarthOrbit #Broadband constellations, such as #SpaceX #Starlink, #OneWeb and #BlueOrigin #Kuiper. The #IEEE Access paper is here: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/ielx7/6287639/9312710/09568932.pdf?tp=&arnumber=9568932&isnumber=9312710&ref=aHR0cHM6Ly9pZWVleHBsb3JlLmllZWUub3JnL2RvY3VtZW50Lzk1Njg5MzI/c291cmNlPWF1dGhvcmFsZXJ0

Offline JackWhite

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3292 on: 10/28/2021 12:14 pm »
Got my Starlink kit a few days ago, and lashed the dish onto the top of my chimney. It took about 10 minutes to find a satellite and connect. Preliminary speed tests show from 50 to 200 mb/s down and 15 to 40 mb/s up. The outages are frequent but very short... so far.

I like the Starlink app's statistics reporting, showing time & duration of outages/obstructions. Unfortunately, the Starlink router is pretty primative, so I picked up a TP-Link ER605 Multi-WAN router and configured it to do automatic fallback switching to my old DSL modem, and include my existing LAN. So far, so good, time will tell. But I miss the diagnostics that the Starlink router provides.

How's your installation been going? I've installed everything pretty easily, but I wonder maybe I did something wrong or it's just a bad connection with this technology. Anyway, it's cool to have and I hope it will be developed for the better condition

Offline Mandella

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3293 on: 10/28/2021 05:53 pm »
I went ahead and ordered a 21.5 foot (6.5 meter) mast based on the obstructions I was seeing using the Starlink app, but now I'm wondering if I should trust the app, considering that this is not a serviced area yet, and just eyeballing it the app seems to want a really low north facing view.

Oh well, rather have the dish higher than needed than too low.

Offline TheRadicalModerate

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3294 on: 10/28/2021 06:56 pm »
Quote
Our new @IEEEAccess Access paper has been published. We model the #Engineering #Economics of #LowEarthOrbit #Broadband constellations, such as #SpaceX #Starlink, #OneWeb and #BlueOrigin #Kuiper. The #IEEE Access paper is here: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/ielx7/6287639/9312710/09568932.pdf?tp=&arnumber=9568932&isnumber=9312710&ref=aHR0cHM6Ly9pZWVleHBsb3JlLmllZWUub3JnL2RvY3VtZW50Lzk1Njg5MzI/c291cmNlPWF1dGhvcmFsZXJ0

First thing that jumps out:  They're using a flat network density, without weighting how the birds bunch up when latitude ≅ inclination.  That'll throw things off quite a bit.

Offline soltasto

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3295 on: 10/29/2021 09:48 am »
SpaceX has updated their https://www.starlink.com/ website (now multiple languages are available) and some new and updated renders were added.

Offline su27k

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3296 on: 10/30/2021 04:02 am »
FCC defends Starlink approval as Viasat, Dish urge court to block SpaceX license

Quote from: arstechnica
The Federal Communications Commission this week urged a court to back the FCC's approval of SpaceX Starlink satellite launches against a lawsuit filed by Viasat and Dish.

With oral arguments scheduled for December 3, final briefs were filed on Tuesday by the FCC, Viasat, Dish, and SpaceX. Judges at the US Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit previously rejected Viasat's motion for a stay that would have halted SpaceX's ongoing launches of low-Earth-orbit (LEO) satellites pending the resolution of the lawsuit. Judges found that Viasat failed to show that it is likely to win its case alleging that the FCC improperly approved the satellite launches. Judges said at the time that Viasat did not meet "the stringent requirements for a stay pending court review" but granted a motion to expedite the appeal.

Offline markbike528cbx

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3297 on: 10/30/2021 08:20 pm »
I realize that "a contract is a contract, but only among Ferengi " , but how does it work that Viasat is suing a Future launch provider?  At this time Starlink IS Spacex, not even separated by a parent-subsidiary structure.

Do we know or have knowledgeable guesses on the timing of the court's decision?

Is the refusal of a stay prejudicial against the Viacom position?  Is it a possible appeals basis?

Offline vsatman

Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3298 on: 10/30/2021 08:42 pm »
  At this time Starlink IS Spacex, not even separated by a parent-subsidiary structure.
this is no longer the case
 Delaware registered Starlink Services LLC
https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/1030912587048/Starlink%20Services%20LLC%20ETC%20Application%20Florida%20Amendment%20(Final).pdf

Offline Redclaws

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #3299 on: 10/30/2021 09:21 pm »
I realize that "a contract is a contract, but only among Ferengi " , but how does it work that Viasat is suing a Future launch provider?  At this time Starlink IS Spacex, not even separated by a parent-subsidiary structure.

Do we know or have knowledgeable guesses on the timing of the court's decision?

Is the refusal of a stay prejudicial against the Viacom position?  Is it a possible appeals basis?

Companies with business relationships sue each other all the time.  Whether or not it creates bad will prejudicial to their other business arrangements tends to depend entirely on the details of the suit, lines of business, and personalities involved.  Elon seems unlikely to hold a grudge like that - their money is good regardless.

Tags: pole flip 
 

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