Author Topic: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program  (Read 419019 times)

Offline eeergo

Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #800 on: 07/17/2018 04:13 pm »
Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism.

VPN
-DaviD-

Offline wally

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #801 on: 07/17/2018 04:15 pm »
It will help a lot and it would be so much easy if someone would just copy and paste the content of the article somewhere (hint: pastebin)
« Last Edit: 07/17/2018 04:27 pm by wally »

Offline eeergo

Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #802 on: 07/17/2018 04:27 pm »
It will help a lot and it would so much easy if someone would just copy and paste the content of the article somewhere :)

Now that would be against the journal's copyright, wouldn't it?

If you would like to read the full article and you get geographical restrictions, spend a few minutes on getting one of the many free, easy-to-use VPN tools available.

Information tidbits: first test flight scheduled for 2021, AR-22's 10 hotfires in 240h, vehicle intended to measure 100' long and 62' wide vertical takeoff, horizontal landing suborbital spaceplane with a deployable expendable kick stage for orbital deliveries up to 3000 lb, composite structures have heritage from the 787 development. Launch costs aimed at <$5M, government investment at $146M plus a "significant" but undisclosed amount by Boeing.
-DaviD-

Offline wally

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #803 on: 07/17/2018 04:29 pm »
And using a VPN isn’t against journal copyright rules? Since I’m not physically located in the US.

Offline Comga

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #804 on: 07/17/2018 04:35 pm »
An article on the Phantom Express:
https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-boeing-phantom-express-20180716-story.html#

It's just like NSF!
Every story eventually turns to SpaceX!
Quote
“SpaceX has had its success,” she (Claire Leon, director of Loyola Marymount University’s graduate program in systems engineering and former director of the launch enterprise directorate at the U.S. Air Force’s Space and Missile Systems Center) said.
;D
« Last Edit: 07/17/2018 04:39 pm by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #805 on: 07/17/2018 04:39 pm »
"And using a VPN isn’t against journal copyright rules? Since I’m not physically located in the US."

Probably is!  But it would be you doing it and not a third party.

But there are other recent stories out there on the same topic with mostly the same information.

Offline eeergo

Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #806 on: 07/17/2018 04:40 pm »
And using a VPN isn’t against journal copyright rules? Since I’m not physically located in the US.

What does copyright have to do with geographical access restriction, moreover when that restriction is due to more stringent privacy rules in the EU than in the US? You can easily see why copy-pasting content goes against COPYright, on the other hand.

It's not a subscription service so VPNing it's not illegal in any shape or form (even if it was a subscription service, most agree it would still be legal, by the way). You can route your traffic through where you please.
-DaviD-

Offline su27k

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #807 on: 07/18/2018 02:05 am »
An article on the Phantom Express:
https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-boeing-phantom-express-20180716-story.html#

2021 first launch is news, previously it's 2020.

Offline Star One

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #808 on: 07/18/2018 06:47 am »
It will help a lot and it would so much easy if someone would just copy and paste the content of the article somewhere

Now that would be against the journal's copyright, wouldn't it?

If you would like to read the full article and you get geographical restrictions, spend a few minutes on getting one of the many free, easy-to-use VPN tools available.

Information tidbits: first test flight scheduled for 2021, AR-22's 10 hotfires in 240h, vehicle intended to measure 100' long and 62' wide vertical takeoff, horizontal landing suborbital spaceplane with a deployable expendable kick stage for orbital deliveries up to 3000 lb, composite structures have heritage from the 787 development. Launch costs aimed at <$5M, government investment at $146M plus a "significant" but undisclosed amount by Boeing.

Use a free VPN & get your info sold onto to every ad agency allegedly. If you’re going to use one better to pay for it.
« Last Edit: 07/18/2018 06:48 am by Star One »

Offline Chris Bergin

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Offline LaunchedIn68

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #810 on: 07/20/2018 07:48 pm »
Great article.  But is AR saying that they finally achieved with the SSME what they set out to do 35 years ago?  Borescoping, inspecting bolts, and the figuring out of the dry time of any moisture....this only can be accomplished now?  After the program has long ended and the Orbiters are in museums?   ???
What might've been....
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Offline RonM

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #811 on: 07/20/2018 07:59 pm »
Great article.  But is AR saying that they finally achieved with the SSME what they set out to do 35 years ago?  Borescoping, inspecting bolts, and the figuring out of the dry time of any moisture....this only can be accomplished now?  After the program has long ended and the Orbiters are in museums?   ???
What might've been....

The Shuttle not designed for a 24 hour turnaround.

Offline whitelancer64

Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #812 on: 07/20/2018 08:10 pm »
Great article.  But is AR saying that they finally achieved with the SSME what they set out to do 35 years ago?  Borescoping, inspecting bolts, and the figuring out of the dry time of any moisture....this only can be accomplished now?  After the program has long ended and the Orbiters are in museums?   ???
What might've been....

The SSME went through several iterations. FMOF [First Manned Orbital Flight] (1981), Phase I (1983), Phase II (1988), Block I (July 1995), Block IA (Oct. 1995), Block IIA (1998), and Block II (2001).

I'm of the understanding, but someone else will probably correct me, that all SSMEs Block I and later could be full-duration fired multiple times with little more than borescope inspections.
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Offline Rocket Science

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #813 on: 07/21/2018 12:12 am »
Inciteful article Philip (as to rouse the passions of "Shuttle-huggers" and those "SpaceX-ers" that see the Falcon as the sole solution to everything), thank you! 8)

Edit to add: Some needed an explanation... ???
« Last Edit: 07/21/2018 06:26 pm by Rocket Science »
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Offline TomH

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #814 on: 07/21/2018 02:49 pm »
I don't see any mass and dimension specs on the XS-1 (Phantom Express). I wonder whether it is too heavy to be carried up by Stratolauncher. Stage with AR-22 becomes the S2, and S3 has higher payload. Or is carrying an H2 fueled spaceplane aloft underbelly too dangerous?

Offline e of pi

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #815 on: 07/21/2018 03:49 pm »
I don't see any mass and dimension specs on the XS-1 (Phantom Express). I wonder whether it is too heavy to be carried up by Stratolauncher. Stage with AR-22 becomes the S2, and S3 has higher payload. Or is carrying an H2 fueled spaceplane aloft underbelly too dangerous?
From the NASASpaceflight article:
Quote
The glideback booster will weigh approximately 240,000 pounds when fueled.

The LA Times has an article with some of the other dimensions:
Quote
The 100-foot-long vehicle with a 62-foot wingspan is being designed for rapid reusability similar to that of commercial aircraft, program officials said.

The gap between the fuselages on Stratolaunch in more than 30m and its payload capacity is ~500,000 lbs, so in theory Phantom Express could fit on it. However, the engineering of a way to mount Phantom Express to it and still mount an upper stage to Phantom Express might be tricky, and the benefits might not be very large from a payload perspective, as Phantom Express will already be dropping its upper stage around Mach 10, where Stratolaunch could only contribute a couple more multiples of the speed of sound. There might be a couple ways it could make sense, enabling Phantom Express to be dropped uprange from a landing site/operating base and then glide forward to land at the base, similar to Jon Goff's Boomerang concept. Jon has a really good analysis of this air-launched glideforward mode here, which I'll refrain from restating in depth and just quote the key line:
Quote
This concept manages to meet all three goals discussed earlier: the first stage has RTLS capability, the rocket stack can use performance-optimal staging without the constraints of the glideback concept, and there is no wasted propellant associated with the RTLS maneuver–all of the first stage propellant except for a tiny landing reserve is used for putting the upper stage onto the trajectory it wants.

It'd also give Phantom Express a little more flexibility on where it can operate as they wouldn't have to move their mobile gantry/transporter/erector around from site to site, only fly Stratolaunch someplace new. Whether those benefits are worth it is a matter for more detailed analysis by the teams involved, given the challenges of figuring out the mounting/mating arrangements and avoiding excessive LH2 boiloff during the ascent to drop position and topping the XS-1 vehicle during flight.

Offline GWH

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #816 on: 07/21/2018 04:15 pm »
You wouldn't be able to air start the AR-22 as its an SSME derivative (without signifigant modifications), see Ares I.
« Last Edit: 07/21/2018 04:20 pm by GWH »

Offline TomH

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #817 on: 07/21/2018 04:48 pm »
You wouldn't be able to air start the AR-22 as its an SSME derivative (without signifigant modifications), see Ares I.

Ahhh, yes. Overlooked that not so little detail. Thanks.

Offline envy887

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #818 on: 07/21/2018 04:55 pm »
You wouldn't be able to air start the AR-22 as its an SSME derivative (without signifigant modifications), see Ares I.

The problem with SSME on Ares wasn't so much airstart, but restart for TLI. If it's hot-staged and the start helium etc. comes from carrier aircraft it would be reasonably straightforward to airstart. Dropping then starting would be more difficult but not insurmountable.

Stratolaunch is reportedly investigating "Black Ice" which is supposed to be an air-drop to orbit spaceplane and would likely look quite similar to Phantom Express, perhaps right down to using the SSME which has a good combination of thrust and specific impulse for that purpose.
« Last Edit: 07/21/2018 04:57 pm by envy887 »

Offline Prettz

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Re: DARPA Experimental Spaceplane 1 (XS-1) Program
« Reply #819 on: 07/21/2018 05:23 pm »
Has it been mentioned yet how this thing will get back to the launch site? Presumably it can't just glide back.

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