Author Topic: Maļa Space - ArianeGroup reusable launcher (2026)  (Read 23338 times)

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Maļa Space - ArianeGroup reusable launcher (2026)
« Reply #40 on: 01/04/2022 07:05 pm »
Sorry but I don't see the relation of the competition between Ariane 6 and Falcon 9; with Maia Space, a France Ariane group subsidiary developing a Small launcher ~1mT to SSO 700km. Let's not redo the Ariane 6 discussion here, it's OFF TOPIC.
Again, this is a very unpleasant topic.

AFAIK the propper engine for Maia Space is ROMEO, not Prometheus. But Myra or Aquilla might be even better.
FLPP SCORE-D wasn't funded in 2012, that was the decision that lead to the Ariane 6 we know today.

Maia Space is a proposal for a reusable stage with a single engine, can this work? I think a design with multiple engines is more reliable for a reusable launcher.
Engine failures is something that shouldn't be driving configuration choices. LV is most economic when flying its max payload in which case engine failure in early part of launch will result in mission failure.

SpaceX SH will have engine out capabilities just because it has so many engines. Engine size and number was more do with engine development and build cost not  redundancy.


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Offline floss

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Re: Maļa Space - ArianeGroup reusable launcher (2026)
« Reply #41 on: 01/04/2022 07:19 pm »
It adds nothing but reinvents the wheel and does not grow the in-space economy one penny and costs a fortune wonder what satellites will be cut while multi-billions are spent on a high-tech park.

Offline Notaris

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Re: Maļa Space - ArianeGroup reusable launcher (2026)
« Reply #42 on: 01/24/2022 02:16 pm »

AFAIK the propper engine for Maia Space is ROMEO, not Prometheus.

Maia Space is a proposal for a reusable stage with a single engine, can this work? I think a design with multiple engines is more reliable for a reusable launcher.

ROMEO?? It was a thrust chamber demonstrator, not a full engine like Prometheus. I don't think they will study another new engine, it will take to much time.

Romeo was the engine for the Airbus Space Plane project with a thrust chamber (life-time demo with many tests at P3 in Lampoldshausen) designed by at that time Astrium Space Transportation's Ottobrunn site and a Japanese turbo-pump (it was before the merger with SNECMA to form ArianeGroup and a certain reluctance of Airbus to have SNECMA (Vernon) in the project).

Thus definitely more than just a thrust chamber demonstrator, but certainly far from being a qualified engine. 

Offline hektor

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Re: Maļa Space - ArianeGroup reusable launcher (2026)
« Reply #43 on: 01/25/2022 07:09 am »


Behind a paywall unfortunately

French article on Maia Space
« Last Edit: 01/25/2022 07:14 am by hektor »

Offline hektor

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Re: Maļa Space - ArianeGroup reusable launcher (2026)
« Reply #44 on: 01/25/2022 07:11 am »
Does look like a semi reusable launcher like Falcon 9 rather than like the fully reusable launcher which was my original understanding

Offline gosnold

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Re: Maļa Space - ArianeGroup reusable launcher (2026)
« Reply #45 on: 01/25/2022 03:46 pm »
There's a report than they are studying a reusable 2nd stage (human-rated too). But I can't find an official press release.
« Last Edit: 01/26/2022 06:48 pm by gosnold »

Offline Oli

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« Last Edit: 01/25/2022 06:21 pm by Oli »

Offline Syl35

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Re: Maļa Space - ArianeGroup reusable launcher (2026)
« Reply #47 on: 01/25/2022 07:00 pm »
Ther's a report than they are studying a reusable 2nd stage (human-rated too). But I can't find an official press release.

It is mentionned in an interview on BFMTV, a French news channel:

https://www.bfmtv.com/economie/entreprises/transports/au-dela-d-ariane-6-ariane-group-veut-miser-sur-le-reutilisable-et-le-vol-habite_AD-202201240289.html

"ArianeGroup offers a "reusable second stage concept" of a rocket, which could carry astronauts or satellites depending on the mission."

Offline Asteroza

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Re: Maļa Space - ArianeGroup reusable launcher (2026)
« Reply #48 on: 01/26/2022 01:38 am »
It's a whole family, though I don't quite see the point.



https://www.welt.de/wissenschaft/article236443431/Raumfahrt-Ariane-bekommt-kleine-Schwester-Maia.html

Interesting, the small single stick with explicit third stage seems to for high C3 missions and/or LH2 perhaps?

Going with an uncommon core in the heavy variants is a bit peculiar...

Offline Oli

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Re: Maļa Space - ArianeGroup reusable launcher (2026)
« Reply #49 on: 01/26/2022 11:19 am »
Interesting, the small single stick with explicit third stage seems to for high C3 missions and/or LH2 perhaps?

Going with an uncommon core in the heavy variants is a bit peculiar...

I imagine the small core can serve as a first stage for the small launcher and also replace the A6 boosters while retaining the A6 core for the time being. There's also a small storable prop kick stage called Astris in development that replaces the hydrolox upper stage, presumably for LEO payloads, similar to A5 ES.
« Last Edit: 01/26/2022 11:20 am by Oli »

Offline Asteroza

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Re: Maļa Space - ArianeGroup reusable launcher (2026)
« Reply #50 on: 01/26/2022 09:40 pm »
Interesting, the small single stick with explicit third stage seems to for high C3 missions and/or LH2 perhaps?

Going with an uncommon core in the heavy variants is a bit peculiar...

I imagine the small core can serve as a first stage for the small launcher and also replace the A6 boosters while retaining the A6 core for the time being. There's also a small storable prop kick stage called Astris in development that replaces the hydrolox upper stage, presumably for LEO payloads, similar to A5 ES.

kick stage explains the lack of second stage on the heavy variant, second from the right...

Offline libra

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Re: Maļa Space - ArianeGroup reusable launcher (2026)
« Reply #51 on: 01/27/2022 09:09 am »
I strongly recommend to take BFM-TV "information" with a grain of salt the size of, say, Phobos (Mars moon I mean). Same for "Le Figaro". It's the usual business of "mass media discussing spaceflight".

Offline libra

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Re: Maļa Space - ArianeGroup reusable launcher (2026)
« Reply #52 on: 01/27/2022 09:11 am »
It seems that Maia will be a small branch of Arianespace (not sure TBH, could be Airbus space group) organized like a "startup" to get Maia off the ground faster and more efficiently that the usual cumbersome ESA and CNES and space ministries process.

Macron is particularly obsessed with the startup model, those days...

The gist of the idea is clearly to go "full startup mode" to move things faster.
« Last Edit: 01/27/2022 09:12 am by libra »

Offline su27k

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Re: Maļa Space - ArianeGroup reusable launcher (2026)
« Reply #53 on: 02/04/2022 12:39 pm »
France’s CNES: There’s a mini-launcher competition in Europe. We intend to win it

Quote from: spaceintelreport.com
The French government will subsidize development of ArianeGroup’s Maia reusable mini-launcher, and other French mini-launchers as well, to meet a competitive threat from other European small launchers, the president of the French space agency, CNES, said.

The decision was made after France concluded that mini-launchers are not just proving grounds for technologies intended for larger vehicles, but commercially valuable assets in the emerging satellite market.

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Maļa Space - ArianeGroup reusable launcher (2026)
« Reply #54 on: 02/04/2022 09:40 pm »
Good lord, what is the competitive threat from other European mini-launchers?

Offline Fabien

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Re: Maļa Space - ArianeGroup reusable launcher (2026)
« Reply #55 on: 02/05/2022 07:00 am »
Good lord, what is the competitive threat from other European mini-launchers?

Quite a lot : Isar aerospace, RFA, PLD Space, Venture Orbital Systems, Orbex....

Re: Maļa Space - ArianeGroup reusable launcher (2026)
« Reply #56 on: 02/06/2022 06:22 am »
Good lord, what is the competitive threat from other European mini-launchers?
Quite a lot : Isar aerospace, RFA, PLD Space, Venture Orbital Systems, Orbex....

Orbex just filed for a launch license actually, so any hope of "winning" seems fruitless. I mean, unless we're not counting the UK as Europe, which is honestly fair post-Brexit.
Wait, ∆V? This site will accept the ∆ symbol? How many times have I written out the word "delta" for no reason?

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Maļa Space - ArianeGroup reusable launcher (2026)
« Reply #57 on: 02/06/2022 02:45 pm »
Good lord, what is the competitive threat from other European mini-launchers?

Quite a lot : Isar aerospace, RFA, PLD Space, Venture Orbital Systems, Orbex....

They are little threat to one another, at least for the foreseeable future.

Offline su27k

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Re: Maļa Space - ArianeGroup reusable launcher (2026)
« Reply #58 on: 06/09/2022 04:10 am »
https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/1534566188390535169

Quote
[email protected]'s small-launcher spinoff, #MaiaSpace, plans capital raise by early 2023, defends merits of combined expendable (for the business) and reusable (as tech demo for future Ariane) vehicle. @esa @cnes.https://bit.ly/3aQjyVJ



ArianeGroup small-launcher spinoff MaļaSpace plans capital raise by early 2023

Quote from: spaceintelreport.com
Talk about high expectations: When French Economics Minister Bruno Le Maire announced the creation of small-launcher developer MaļaSpace, he said the company’s future reusable rocket ultimately would lead to Europe’s having its own “SpaceX, its own Falcon 9.”

To make that success more likely, he said France needed to abandon its scruples when it comes to subsidizing high-value sectors like space: https://www.spaceintelreport.com/in-commercial-and-military-space-france-is-pulling-europe-toward-a-more-active-government-role/
« Last Edit: 06/09/2022 04:11 am by su27k »

Offline Fmedici

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