Author Topic: Ares IV  (Read 87861 times)

Offline PMN1

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Ares IV
« on: 12/30/2006 12:13 pm »
Flight International has an article on a proposed Ares IV similar in idea to Ares V but with reduced capacity, anyone have any information?

(EDIT: This later proved to be a false story).

Offline imfan

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Re: Aries IV
« Reply #1 on: 12/30/2006 01:38 pm »
direct?

Offline PMN1

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Re: Ares IV
« Reply #2 on: 12/30/2006 04:18 pm »
Didn't look like it, I only had a quick scan of the article in the shop this morning thinking (wrongly as it turned out) I could have a better look at it on line but I cant seem to find it on the Flight website.. ...even with the now correct spelling.

Offline landofgrey

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Re: Ares IV
« Reply #3 on: 01/01/2007 03:33 pm »
From what I heard from a source inside NASA, about a month ago a formal proposal was made for a vehicle to be called Ares IV. What he told me is that it would be essentially an Ares V topped with Orion and no lunar descent stage. I've been trying to get more information and details but haven't had much luck yet. I'm not sure how accurate the info is, he's been involved with something else inside the agency and so doesn't have direct knowledge.
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Offline RedSky

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Re: Ares IV
« Reply #4 on: 01/01/2007 04:01 pm »

Quote
landofgrey - 1/1/2007  10:16 AM

From what I heard from a source inside NASA, about a month ago a formal proposal was made for a vehicle to be called Ares IV. What he told me is that it would be essentially an Ares V topped with Orion and no lunar descent stage. I've been trying to get more information and details but haven't had much luck yet. I'm not sure how accurate the info is, he's been involved with something else inside the agency and so doesn't have direct knowledge.

What would this proposal be used for, other than a redefinition of the ESAS architecture. (1.5 to 2.0 launch?) Is it to replace the Ares 1 and Ares V combo?
 
 When you say no lunar descent stage... does that imply it would have a lunar ascent stage along with the Orion CEV? A fairly simple (no pressurized tunnel, etc) mechanical docking would then occur to mate the CEV+LSAM ascent stage to the EDS+LSAM descent stage? Sounds like they're proposing a "Direct on steroids "... but probably wouldn't save as much in cost if the Ares V is still developed. :o
 

 


Offline astrobrian

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Re: Ares IV
« Reply #5 on: 01/01/2007 07:04 pm »
Probably it means that some are thinking an Ares IV would solve the wieght issues of the stick. just my 2 cents

Offline bobthemonkey

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Re: Ares IV
« Reply #6 on: 01/01/2007 08:40 pm »
sounds like an in-house direct, or a one launch lunar orbit/flyby mission. Without LSAM, could the EDS brake the CEV into lunar orbit?

Offline Peter NASA

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Re: Ares IV
« Reply #7 on: 01/01/2007 09:03 pm »
They've got confused with Direct. There is no such thing as Ares IV.

Offline nacnud

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Re: Ares IV
« Reply #8 on: 01/01/2007 10:21 pm »
Another option, could this be used with a reusable Luna lander once a Luna base was set up? IE one Ares IV launch for crew exchange rather than a Ares V + I combo.

Offline bobthemonkey

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Offline PMN1

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Re: Ares IV
« Reply #10 on: 01/02/2007 02:31 pm »

Offline Smatcha

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Re: Ares IV
« Reply #11 on: 01/02/2007 02:53 pm »
Looks like 1,500 downloads of the paper below directly into NASA is having some effect.

http://www.teamvisioninc.com/services-consulting-space-exploration-optimization.htm

They are getting warmer.  LOR is superior to EOR in some ways and worse in others.  Using the Ares I upper stage is a good idea from the Ares I and V perspective as well.  If they do follow this path though it doesn’t look good for Ares I since it would have no role in the new architecture.  Also with the use of 2 HLV’s per manned lunar mission the 10m by 5 Seg SRB variants would be over kill for even the bloated CEV and LSAM designs.  At which point the  “Direct” 2 HLV launch Architecture would make the most sense.

http://www.directlauncher.com/

There is still room for a number of multi-billion dollar improvements but at least NASA appears more open towards improving upon their initial approach.

You can make a 180 degree turn in four 45 degree increments it just takes longer.
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Offline RedSky

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Re: Ares IV
« Reply #12 on: 01/02/2007 03:19 pm »
Consideration of this vehicle completely changes things to a full 2-launch LOR architecture.  It makes Ares-I obsolete and pointless... why build it at all?  It requires 2 EDS stages for each launch.  It does, however, make for one less set of mobile transporters, etc.  However, unless the EDS stays attached, won't the CEV SM capabilities have to be increased for the LOI burn, and a lot of other lunar orbit burns for the LOR rendezvous?  If they do this, they might as well go back to a 5.5m CEV.

Online Chris Bergin

RE: Ares IV
« Reply #13 on: 01/02/2007 03:20 pm »
There's some Stumpy in there also.
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Offline wannamoonbase

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RE: Ares IV
« Reply #14 on: 01/02/2007 03:40 pm »
Quote
Chris Bergin - 2/1/2007  11:03 AM

There's some Stumpy in there also.

I miss Stumpy, he was a cute little fella.  But he grew up into Direct (sort of.)

I know its one story with very little public information as to the intent of even evaluating the idea but Direct with 2 full launches makes more sense than the 1.5 with seperate components.  Two vehicles with lots of commonality would make a better use of manufacturering, assembly and launch faciliites.

Lets see where this goes.

If they do change they need to get on with it sometime soon in 2007.

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Offline Kaputnik

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Re: Ares IV
« Reply #15 on: 01/02/2007 03:45 pm »
This is very interesting stuff. Lets hope NASA is preparing to drop Ares 1 in favour of this.
On the negative side, I don't like the idea of an Ares-1 US derived EDS because it would lack the diameter to launch larger payloads, e.g. Mars landers.
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Offline Mark Max Q

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Re: Ares IV
« Reply #16 on: 01/02/2007 03:47 pm »
This is the stretched limo version of Stumpy, and it's obvious that DIRECT has gotten to the very top of NASA, as they are not taking it serious. Sure, the name has changed, but this is one in the eye of the everything is fine with Ares I people.

Offline Skyrocket

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Re: Ares IV
« Reply #17 on: 01/02/2007 03:51 pm »
Quote
Kaputnik - 2/1/2007  5:28 PM

This is very interesting stuff. Lets hope NASA is preparing to drop Ares 1 in favour of this.
On the negative side, I don't like the idea of an Ares-1 US derived EDS because it would lack the diameter to launch larger payloads, e.g. Mars landers.
If they drop Ares-I, then it is only a little step towards a larger diameter EDS


Online Chris Bergin

RE: Ares IV
« Reply #18 on: 01/02/2007 03:58 pm »
We need to write it up as an article, but the latest CLV notes from Steve Cook note a different CLV (Shorter upper stage).

They've never 'documented' Ares IV. Certainly one to check out with the sources when they're all back from holidays.
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Offline Jim

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Re: Ares IV
« Reply #19 on: 01/02/2007 05:00 pm »
Ares IV doesn't mean dropping Ares I, it means dropping Ares V.  Ares I is still needed for ISS.

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