Author Topic: Pad 39A - Transition to SpaceX Falcon Heavy debut - Thread 1  (Read 302745 times)

Offline Jim

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THAT has to fit into Vandy's HIF, which I believe is quite a bit shorter

Not enough to matter

Offline Lars-J

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The pad is certainly being prepared for Falcon Heavy debut, but we're (I'm) seeing inconsistencies that may indicate the facility is being readied for more than that.  (To be honest, I'm looking for any shred of evidence that forward looking plans are in place for BFR at 39A and am asking for help examining several of the new/changed features from Vandenberg which was the original pad developed for Falcon Heavy's debut.)

No, you are NOT. You just decided on a spur of the moment that "hey a BFR might fit", and ran with it. You are jumping to conclusions without fully understanding how an FH is integrated with the TEL in the HIF.

Look at the picture below. See how much space is taken up by just a F9 on a TEL? The 39A HIF is not that much larger (if any) than the VAFB HIF.
« Last Edit: 05/01/2015 06:03 pm by Lars-J »

Offline newpylong

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The question remains.
Why build an oversized building (height and 3x 90 ton cranes) as they apparently are?
The size of the BFR has varied all over the map... and the big-box HIF is the question. If BFR is sized so that it can launch from 39A, then having its HIF on the causeway makes sense.  If simultaneous F9/FH/BFR ops are envisioned, another small pad/HIF will be built for F9/FH to relieve overcrowding IMO.
I agree that SpaceX has only 'planned for the present' as a quotable member insists, but Ithink they're doing the opposite here.

No, there is no question remaining. This HIF is being built for F9/FH and that is it. How can you build a facility for a launch system not even fully designed yet? You think they are going to fit something as big or bigger than SLS in there, let alone still use it for regular launches? Not gonna happen.

Offline AncientU

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The pad is certainly being prepared for Falcon Heavy debut, but we're (I'm) seeing inconsistencies that may indicate the facility is being readied for more than that.  (To be honest, I'm looking for any shred of evidence that forward looking plans are in place for BFR at 39A and am asking for help examining several of the new/changed features from Vandenberg which was the original pad developed for Falcon Heavy's debut.)

No, you are NOT. You just decided on a spur of the moment that "hey a BFR might fit", and ran with it. You are jumping to conclusions without fully understanding how an FH is integrated with the TEL in the HIF.

Look at the picture below. See how much space is taken up by just a F9 on a TEL? The 39A HIF is not that much larger (if any) than the VAFB HIF.

I'm glad to know that you know better than I what I'm doing...
I'll drop it now and wait until more information is available.
(If you know better, please let me know. ;)  By the way, what are my plans for the weekend? ::))

Note: The bridge crane in your image is rated for 30 tons... and it will handle the FH.  Just sayin'...
« Last Edit: 05/01/2015 07:57 pm by AncientU »
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Offline eriblo

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[...]

Note: The bridge crane in your image is rated for 30 tons... and it will handle the FH.  Just sayin'...

Remember that there is one light and one heavy end on these rockets, especially on a fully assembled FH...

(Removed an erroneous edit...)
« Last Edit: 05/01/2015 09:47 pm by eriblo »

Offline AncientU

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[...]

Note: The bridge crane in your image is rated for 30 tons... and it will handle the FH.  Just sayin'...

Remember that there is one light and one heavy end on these rockets, especially on a fully assembled FH...

(Removed an erroneous edit...)

Yes, approximately the same weight ratio on each (F9/FH)-- in fact, similar on another rocket which I won't mention.  30 and 60 ton cranes in Vandy HIF to lift that load.  50/90 (possibly x 3) at 39A.  Of course, the East Coast heavies might be heavier than West Coast.

Edit: Added parenthetical for clarity.
« Last Edit: 05/01/2015 10:53 pm by AncientU »
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Offline eriblo

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[...]

Note: The bridge crane in your image is rated for 30 tons... and it will handle the FH.  Just sayin'...

Remember that there is one light and one heavy end on these rockets, especially on a fully assembled FH...

(Removed an erroneous edit...)

Yes, approximately the same weight ratio on each (F9/FH)-- in fact, similar on another rocket which I won't mention.  30 and 60 ton cranes in Vandy HIF to lift that load.  50/90 (possibly x 3) at 39A.  Of course, the East Coast heavies might be heavier than West Coast.

Edit: Added parenthetical for clarity.

Newer mind my comment, I see it was mentioned a page or so back. Using 30 ton crane examples when arguing about the 90 ton ones got me a little confused, I blame the late hour.

Offline cartman

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Maybe they need the 90 ton crane so they can lift the ~50 ton maximum payload of FH?

Offline AncientU

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The 50 ton crane is at the distal end of the HIF from the pad which would put it at the payload end... but you make a great point.  Could be an explanation of why there are so many cranes.  Could take two to lift maximum payloads.
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Offline Jim

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  Could take two to lift maximum payloads.

It takes to rotate from vertical to horizontal.

Offline deruch

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  Could take two to lift maximum payloads.

It takes to rotate from vertical to horizontal.

They don't use a dedicated break-over jig?
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

Offline Jim

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They don't use a dedicated break-over jig?

No

Offline baldusi

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What about the hydraulics to keep the TEL horizontal on the ramp? Couldn't that be an explanation?

Offline dglow

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I've seen this asked before, but missed the answer. While traveling up the ramp to the pad, is there need for the TEL to keep the stack horizontal?
« Last Edit: 05/02/2015 10:16 pm by dglow »

Offline AncientU

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And assuming that it does need to be kept horizontal, how much flat pavement is there outside of the HIF before the leading end of the TEL starts up the ramp?  If less than 70 meters or so, raising the payload end may need to begin before fully out of the HIF.
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Offline dglow

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And assuming that it does need to be kept horizontal, how much flat pavement is there outside of the HIF before the leading end of the TEL starts up the ramp?

From this photo upthread it appears that flat pavement < TEL length.


Offline douglas100

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I've seen this asked before, but missed the answer. While traveling up the ramp to the pad, is there need for the TEL to keep the stack horizontal?

I can't think of a reason why they would need to do that. Assuming they don't, then the only thing to look out for would be clearance between the TEL and the ground where the slope changes at the top of the ramp.
« Last Edit: 05/05/2015 10:13 pm by douglas100 »
Douglas Clark

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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I've seen this asked before, but missed the answer. While traveling up the ramp to the pad, is there need for the TEL to keep the stack horizontal?

I'm sure that there is a maximum angle beyond which the effective negative gees on the structure exceeds the load-bearing capacity of the explosive bolts and struts holding the stages and PLF together. That said, the ramp up to LC-39A's pad was designed so that the CT could ascend and handle the elevation angle changes without scraping its bottom on the concrete or bumping its load too much. So I imagine the slope is as gentle as its architects could manage.
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Offline hallmh

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They will all be mated before the lift onto the TEL.  The cores won't be individually lifted onto the TEL.


I'm surprised - with all the cores being lifted together horizontally, there will be differential loads stressing the interconnects, which won't exist in flight when the cores are of course vertical.

It seems safer to use the TEL as an assembly jig / armature.

Offline Crispy

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I imagine the slope is as gentle as its architects could manage.

5% according to http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/facilities/lc39a.html

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