Author Topic: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread  (Read 146284 times)

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #480 on: 05/06/2018 04:54 PM »
I prefer a separate thread for MarCO too. I'll report this and let's see what the mods say
« Last Edit: 05/06/2018 04:54 PM by Svetoslav »

Online Chris Bergin

Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #481 on: 05/06/2018 04:55 PM »
Is this the thread for discussion of MarCO as well? Does it have a separate thread?

We could have a sep thread. Want to set one up (I can, but later as I'm busy - so if you've got time, fire away) :)

Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #482 on: 05/06/2018 10:00 PM »
https://mars.nasa.gov/insight/news/8334/nasas-first-deep-space-cubesats-say-polo

The article includes this:

"They each have a special antenna to relay InSight's vital signs during the infamous "Seven Minutes of Terror," the crucial phase which has claimed the majority of humanity's probes sent to land on the Red Planet."

But is this true?  What has been sent to land on the Red Planet, and failed during those seven minutes?

Mars 1                      fail earlier
Zond 2                      fail earlier
Mars 2                       fail during EDL
Mars 3                       Successful landing (then fail)
Mars 6                       fail during EDL
Mars 7                       miss Mars
Viking 1                     Successful landing
Viking 2                     Successful landing
Mars Pathfinder         Successful landing
Mars Polar Lander      fail during EDL
Deep Space 2 (1)       fail during EDL
Deep Space 2 (2)       fail during EDL
Beagle 2                    Successful landing (then fail)
Spirit                          Successful landing
Opportunity               Successful landing
Phoenix                     Successful landing
Curiosity                    Successful landing
Schiaparelli                fail during EDL

Did I miss anything?  That looks like 18 attempts to land on Mars, 9 successes, 6 failures during EDL (the seven minutes), and 3 other failures.  The stats are not as bad as people often say.  I suppose it adds drama, but actually we as a species are pretty good at this, and the US is even better.

Offline Alpha_Centauri

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #483 on: 05/06/2018 10:16 PM »
I think what they were getting at, just poorly worded, was that of all the mars missions that have failed the majority did so during the "seven minutes of terror".

Online redliox

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #484 on: 05/07/2018 02:14 AM »
I think what they were getting at, just poorly worded, was that of all the mars missions that have failed the majority did so during the "seven minutes of terror".

Indeed, and although the majority were Soviet missions both Europe and the United States have suffered failures during those seven minutes.  InSight has the advantage of using a proven design and two "bonus years" of preparations (due to the seismometer delay), and when its turn comes MarCO will be able to relay the telemetry so there will be no blindspots of communications (just lightspeed lag), ensuring we'll know if and why it fails.  And due to Elysium Planitia being flat, there's minimal danger from landing site itself, so any failures will be of a technical issue.
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Offline TakeOff

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #485 on: 05/07/2018 11:13 AM »
https://mars.nasa.gov/insight/news/8334/nasas-first-deep-space-cubesats-say-polo

The article includes this:

"They each have a special antenna to relay InSight's vital signs during the infamous "Seven Minutes of Terror," the crucial phase which has claimed the majority of humanity's probes sent to land on the Red Planet."

But is this true?  What has been sent to land on the Red Planet, and failed during those seven minutes?

Mars 1                      fail earlier
Zond 2                      fail earlier
Mars 2                       fail during EDL
Mars 3                       Successful landing (then fail)
Mars 6                       fail during EDL
Mars 7                       miss Mars
Viking 1                     Successful landing
Viking 2                     Successful landing
Mars Pathfinder         Successful landing
Mars Polar Lander      fail during EDL
Deep Space 2 (1)       fail during EDL
Deep Space 2 (2)       fail during EDL
Beagle 2                    Successful landing (then fail)
Spirit                          Successful landing
Opportunity               Successful landing
Phoenix                     Successful landing
Curiosity                    Successful landing
Schiaparelli                fail during EDL

Did I miss anything?  That looks like 18 attempts to land on Mars, 9 successes, 6 failures during EDL (the seven minutes), and 3 other failures.  The stats are not as bad as people often say.  I suppose it adds drama, but actually we as a species are pretty good at this, and the US is even better.
I think you miss a few there. Wikipedia lists 54 attempts to reach Mars before InSight. Some recent failures omitted in your list are all four Soviet/Russians attempts to Mars the last 30+ years, Phobos 1 and 2, Mars 96 and Phobos-grunt, as well as NASA's Mars Observer and Climate Orbiter. But it is true that the Marco cubesats wouldn't have been very helpful for most of those failures. JAXA's small solid rocket launched Nozomi Mars orbiter failed because of "running out of fuel before reaching Mars", Wiki says.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_missions_to_Mars
« Last Edit: 05/07/2018 11:21 AM by TakeOff »

Online hop

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #486 on: 05/07/2018 05:47 PM »
I think you miss a few there. Wikipedia lists 54 attempts to reach Mars before InSight.
Phil's list is attempted landings only, not orbiters, since the question concerns EDL failures.

Regarding the list:
My impression is that for Beagle 2, failure mode is unknown. Although we now know it made it to the surface mostly in one piece, it's unclear whether it had a hard landing or was otherwise damaged earlier. So while it may or may not have failed in the "7 minutes of terror" it does reinforce the argument for real-time EDL telemetry.

Mars 3 did return some telemetry but failure mode is also unknown, so I'm not sure how certain the "successful landing" classification is there either.
« Last Edit: 05/07/2018 05:47 PM by hop »

Offline matthewkantar

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #487 on: 05/07/2018 06:36 PM »
Actually, Beagle 2 was photographed from orbit some time ago, it appears the failure was due to two of it's solar panels failing to deploy, leaving it cut off.

Offline notsorandom

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #488 on: 05/07/2018 06:47 PM »
Actually, Beagle 2 was photographed from orbit some time ago, it appears the failure was due to two of it's solar panels failing to deploy, leaving it cut off.
There had been some speculation that the case was bent due to a hard landing. The panels would then have then caught on the case as they tried to deploy. If that is what happened then it was an EDL failure because the landing system failed to provide a gentle enough touchdown. Regardless of how many probes have failed during ELD its clear that Mars is hard.

Offline NGCHunter

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #489 on: 05/08/2018 04:12 PM »
Here's some ground based telescope tracking I did of InSight shortly a couple of hours after the final Centaur burn and spacecraft separation:

Online redliox

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #490 on: 05/08/2018 11:11 PM »
Countdown to landing now at 201 days and 20 hours to Elysium...
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Offline Star One

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The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #491 on: 05/15/2018 08:45 PM »
A Pale Blue Dot, As Seen by a CubeSat

NASA's Voyager 1 took a classic portrait of Earth from several billion miles away in 1990. Now a class of tiny, boxy spacecraft, known as CubeSats, have just taken their own version of a "pale blue dot" image, capturing Earth and its moon in one shot.

NASA set a new distance record for CubeSats on May 8 when a pair of CubeSats called Mars Cube One (MarCO) reached 621,371 miles (1 million kilometers) from Earth. One of the CubeSats, called MarCO-B (and affectionately known as "Wall-E" to the MarCO team) used a fisheye camera to snap its first photo on May 9. That photo is part of the process used by the engineering team to confirm the spacecraft's high-gain antenna has properly unfolded.

As a bonus, it captured Earth and its moon as tiny specks floating in space.

"Consider it our homage to Voyager," said Andy Klesh, MarCO's chief engineer at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, California. JPL built the CubeSats and leads the MarCO mission. "CubeSats have never gone this far into space before, so it's a big milestone. Both our CubeSats are healthy and functioning properly. We're looking forward to seeing them travel even farther."

The MarCO spacecraft are the first CubeSats ever launched to deep space. Most never go beyond Earth orbit; they generally stay below 497 miles (800 kilometers) above the planet. Though they were originally developed to teach university students about satellites, CubeSats are now a major commercial technology, providing data on everything from shipping routes to environmental changes.

The MarCO CubeSats were launched on May 5 along with NASA's InSight lander, a spacecraft that will touch down on Mars and study the planet's deep interior for the first time. InSight, short for Interior Exploration using Seismic Investigations, Geodesy and Heat Transport, will attempt to land on Mars on Nov. 26. JPL also leads the InSight mission.

Mars landings are notoriously challenging due to the Red Planet's thin atmosphere. The MarCO CubeSats will follow along behind InSight during its cruise to Mars. Should they make it all the way to Mars, they will radio back data about InSight while it enters the atmosphere and descends to the planet's surface. The high-gain antennas are key to that effort; the MarCO team have early confirmation that the antennas have successfully deployed, but will continue to test them in the weeks ahead.

InSight won't rely on the MarCO mission for data relay. That job will fall to NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter. But the MarCOs could be a pathfinder so that future missions can "bring their own relay" to Mars. They could also demonstrate a number of experimental technologies, including their antennas, radios and propulsion systems, which will allow CubeSats to collect science in the future.

Later this month, the MarCOs will attempt the first trajectory correction maneuvers ever performed by CubeSats. This maneuver lets them steer towards Mars, blazing a trail for CubeSats to come.

For more information about MarCO, visit:

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/cubesat/missions/marco.php

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/spaceimages/details.php?id=PIA22323
« Last Edit: 05/15/2018 08:49 PM by Star One »

Offline deruch

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #492 on: 05/17/2018 12:55 AM »
A Pale Blue Dot, As Seen by a CubeSat

Why didn't you include the picture?

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/spaceimages/details.php?id=PIA22323
credit:NASA/JPL-Caltech
Quote from: image caption
The first image captured by one of NASA's Mars Cube One (MarCO) CubeSats. The image, which shows both the CubeSat's unfolded high-gain antenna at right and the Earth and its moon in the center, was acquired by MarCO-B on May 9.

MarCO is a pair of small spacecraft accompanying NASA's InSight (Interior Investigations Using Seismic Investigations, Geodesy and Heat Transport) lander. Together, MarCO-A and MarCO-B are the first CubeSats ever sent to deep space. InSight is the first mission to ever explore Mars' deep interior.

If the MarCO CubeSats make the entire journey to Mars, they will attempt to relay data about InSight back to Earth as the lander enters the Martian atmosphere and lands. MarCO will not collect any science, but are intended purely as a technology demonstration. They could serve as a pathfinder for future CubeSat missions.

The MarCO and InSight projects are managed for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington, by JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology, Pasadena.
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

Offline Star One

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #493 on: 05/17/2018 05:56 AM »
I havenít been able to embed pictures with Tapatalk.

Offline dsmillman

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #494 on: 05/20/2018 06:31 PM »
Insight was supposed to perform a Trajectory Correction Maneuver (TCM) on L + 10 days (May 15).
This TCM is supposed to undo the intentional Mars miss distance implemented during the launch phase.
Does anyone know if this TCM has been conducted?

Offline Svetoslav

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Offline mlindner

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Re: The InSight Mission to Mars General Thread
« Reply #496 on: 06/13/2018 09:49 AM »
First TCM done for the MarCOs, but MarCO-B seems to have a leaking thruster valve which is putting a constant small thrust on the spacecraft so they're examining it carefully and thrusting slowly.

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=7147
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