A_M_Swallow - 22/4/2008 4:04 PMElectrically powered remote controlled bulldozers, diggers, drills and repair robots may be needed to make the holes and cover the roof. This can be performed in advance of the astronauts arriving for their 6 months stay.
Jim - 23/4/2008 3:02 AMQuoteA_M_Swallow - 22/4/2008 4:04 PMElectrically powered remote controlled bulldozers, diggers, drills and repair robots may be needed to make the holes and cover the roof. This can be performed in advance of the astronauts arriving for their 6 months stay.which aren't going to be used on the outpost
A_M_Swallow - 23/4/2008 10:06 AMQuoteJim - 23/4/2008 3:02 AMQuoteA_M_Swallow - 22/4/2008 4:04 PMElectrically powered remote controlled bulldozers, diggers, drills and repair robots may be needed to make the holes and cover the roof. This can be performed in advance of the astronauts arriving for their 6 months stay.which aren't going to be used on the outpostThe boots and flag missions to the Moon have already been performed. It would be a waste of time and money to repeat them. Any future mission has to do a lot more and do it without killing the astronauts..
mike robel - 23/4/2008 8:24 AMPrecursor missions to the moon should include1. High Quality orbital reconaissance craft on the order of MRO in polar orbit, possibly including impactors to stir up the lunar surface for spectroscopic examination.2. Communication satellites positioned such that there is no signal black out for craft on the far side of the moon.3. Not a mission, but a determination as to whether or not any of the Apollo landing sites should be revisited.4. Surface reconaissance craft (stationary and mobile) targeted at the locations identified as promising from orbital recon.4a. These craft should carry locators to aid in high precision landings and various experiments, including ISRU or to ID water deposits.4b. Possible sample return missions from final landing sites.5. Land manned missions for medium length reconaissane forays (~ 2 weeks).6. Evaluate results and figure out what to do next. periodically manned science outpost, permanent manned science outpost, skip Moon and go to Mars?
Jim - 23/4/2008 3:20 PMThe missions aren't boots and flag missions, they are scouting missions. Next are outposts and not bases.
A_M_Swallow - 23/4/2008 12:02 PMQuoteJim - 23/4/2008 3:20 PMThe missions aren't boots and flag missions, they are scouting missions. Next are outposts and not bases.You do not need an Ares-V and astronauts to deliver a rover weighting less than 300 lbs to the Moon.http://ti.arc.nasa.gov/projects/haughton_fieldThese are thinly disguised boots and flag missions.
Jim - 23/4/2008 5:24 PMStill doesn't change the FACT that early missions will just be landers and habits. No Electrically powered remote controlled bulldozers, diggers, drills and repair robots. When are you going to understand that they are not in the plans
A_M_Swallow - 23/4/2008 8:41 PMQuoteJim - 23/4/2008 5:24 PMStill doesn't change the FACT that early missions will just be landers and habits. No Electrically powered remote controlled bulldozers, diggers, drills and repair robots. When are you going to understand that they are not in the plansPlans change.
kraisee - 23/4/2008 4:01 PMJim is totally correct. There is nothing in the current manifest of more than a dozen landings which has anything at all to do with Lunar ISRU.More importantly than that though - there is going to be no cash available to even start developing Lunar ISRU before 2025 at the earliest. Ares sucks up all the funding through 2020, and the initial sortie missions and outpost landings suck up the rest for the next half decade.At that point Mars will take over, so I don't even see it happening then - and ISRU will not be Lunar, it will be Martian then.The *only* Lunar ISRU we can hope to afford to develop in the current plans is a 'standard' probe mission. Typical budget for such a thing is usually ~$300m including the launch vehicle. Think Mars Rover with a small drill. That's all we're likely to see under the current plans before about 2030 in the vein of Lunar ISRU.And no, I don't think this is a good approach. It's why I argue so strongly for a different approach.Ross.
A_M_Swallow - 22/4/2008 3:04 PMISRU Moon technology may have to be developed that does not use hydrogen or carbon (0). Or only extremely tiny amounts.Electrically powered remote controlled bulldozers, diggers, drills and repair robots may be needed to make the holes and cover the roof. This can be performed in advance of the astronauts arriving for their 6 months stay.
Jim - 23/4/2008 9:07 PMQuoteA_M_Swallow - 23/4/2008 8:41 PMQuoteJim - 23/4/2008 5:24 PMStill doesn't change the FACT that early missions will just be landers and habits. No Electrically powered remote controlled bulldozers, diggers, drills and repair robots. When are you going to understand that they are not in the plansPlans change.They still won't include the above. ESAS is the plan. Until ARES V and LSAM go away, the above are not in the plan. The above is less likely to happen in the early missions than Orion being canceled or Direct being adopted. So discussions concerning electrically powered remote controlled bulldozers, diggers, drills and repair robots show be under Advance Concepts and not "NASA CEV / CLV / CaLV / MTV / Alternatives"
A_M_Swallow - 23/4/2008 9:06 AMQuoteJim - 23/4/2008 3:02 AMQuoteA_M_Swallow - 22/4/2008 4:04 PMElectrically powered remote controlled bulldozers, diggers, drills and repair robots may be needed to make the holes and cover the roof. This can be performed in advance of the astronauts arriving for their 6 months stay.which aren't going to be used on the outpostThe boots and flag missions to the Moon have already been performed. It would be a waste of time and money to repeat them. Any future mission has to do a lot more and do it without killing the astronauts.Weight restrictions will prevent more than trivial radiation shielding being sent from the Earth.The same machines used for burying the building can be used for test mining.
Jim - 23/4/2008 9:20 AMQuoteA_M_Swallow - 23/4/2008 10:06 AMQuoteJim - 23/4/2008 3:02 AMQuoteA_M_Swallow - 22/4/2008 4:04 PMElectrically powered remote controlled bulldozers, diggers, drills and repair robots may be needed to make the holes and cover the roof. This can be performed in advance of the astronauts arriving for their 6 months stay.which aren't going to be used on the outpostThe boots and flag missions to the Moon have already been performed. It would be a waste of time and money to repeat them. Any future mission has to do a lot more and do it without killing the astronauts..The missions aren't boots and flag missions, they are scouting missions. Next are outposts and not bases.Electrically powered remote controlled bulldozers, diggers, drills and repair robots are not in the picture
A_M_Swallow - 23/4/2008 9:02 AMQuoteJim - 23/4/2008 3:20 PMThe missions aren't boots and flag missions, they are scouting missions. Next are outposts and not bases.You do not need an Ares-V and astronauts to deliver a rover weighting less than 300 lbs to the Moon.http://ti.arc.nasa.gov/projects/haughton_fieldThese are thinly disguised boots and flag missions.