Author Topic: Launch Vehicle Technician careers  (Read 8510 times)

Offline gladiator1332

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Launch Vehicle Technician careers
« on: 10/07/2007 04:18 pm »
Right now I am an aviation student at Kent State University and I am in the flight program. I should have my private pilot certificate by Christmas. In the last few months though, I have been considering other non-flying careers.
I switched to an Aeronautical Studies major, which gives you a broad overview of Aeronautics, and allows you to branch out in your classes (I can take more electronics, engineering, and history classes if I want) and prepares you for more careers (including piloting).

I am also a space nut, and since I was a kid I always dreamed of working on the Space Shuttle or some other NASA vehicle.
Which brings me to my question...

What kind of jobs are available that allow you to work on launch vehicles, and their systems? I know there are some guys on here involved with Delta and Atlas...what do you guys do? I'm just wondering what path I would have to take class-wise at college to land a job working on a spacecraft's systems and electronics, or a launch vehicle.

This is just one of many things that I am considering at this very confusing time. I'm really at a crossroads right now...part of me still wants to be a pilot, but another still has this interest in NASA and spaceflight, and another part wants to fix airplanes and work with them in other ways than just flying.

Thanks

Offline Jim

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Re: Launch Vehicle Avionics / Systems careers
« Reply #1 on: 10/07/2007 04:48 pm »
An engineering degree is a requirement for most, if not, all engineering jobs.
 For hands on work, like most technicians, a certificate from most vocational schools like an A&P one is needed.

Offline vt_hokie

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RE: Launch Vehicle Avionics / Systems careers
« Reply #2 on: 10/07/2007 04:55 pm »
One thing I wish I had more background in is electrical theory.  I didn't take too many EE classes as an aero major, but I think more knowledge in that area would be helpful.  Also, at some point - and this really applies to many careers both in engineering and in business - I would highly recommend building a solid foundation in probability and statistics.

Offline gladiator1332

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Re: Launch Vehicle Avionics / Systems careers
« Reply #3 on: 10/07/2007 05:26 pm »
Thanks for the replies. I probably won't go the engineering route. I want more of an A&P Mechanic experience, but working on launch vehicles. I like troubleshooting problems and taking things apart. I'm the type of person who actually likes when something goes a bit screwy with my computer, as it gives me something to fix and troubleshoot.

Offline Jim

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Re: Launch Vehicle Avionics / Systems careers
« Reply #4 on: 10/07/2007 05:39 pm »
Quote
gladiator1332 - 7/10/2007  1:26 PM

Thanks for the replies. I probably won't go the engineering route. I want more of an A&P Mechanic experience, but working on launch vehicles. I like troubleshooting problems and taking things apart. I'm the type of person who actually likes when something goes a bit screwy with my computer, as it gives me something to fix and troubleshoot.

Hate to burst your bubble, engineers do the troubleshooting, techs just turn wrenches

Offline gladiator1332

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Re: Launch Vehicle Avionics / Systems careers
« Reply #5 on: 10/07/2007 06:39 pm »
No bubbles burst here. Just really getting an overview of it.

Are the techs paid well? And is anyone on here a tech? I've seen the images of the workers stacking the STS, or examining rocket stages before a launch, and this is something that interests me. I want a hands on experience, and as I said before, once consideration I do have is becoming an aircraft mechanic.
I think it would be pretty cool to work on our nation's launch vehicles.

Offline Jim

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Re: Launch Vehicle Technician careers
« Reply #6 on: 10/07/2007 10:42 pm »
They are mostly union jobs

Offline vt_hokie

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Re: Launch Vehicle Technician careers
« Reply #7 on: 10/08/2007 12:32 am »
Quote
Jim - 7/10/2007  6:42 PM

They are mostly union jobs

Which means they likely get paid better than the engineers!  ;)

Offline Propforce

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RE: Launch Vehicle Technician careers
« Reply #8 on: 10/08/2007 03:32 am »
Quote
gladiator1332 - 7/10/2007  9:18 AM

What kind of jobs are available that allow you to work on launch vehicles, and their systems? I know there are some guys on here involved with Delta and Atlas...what do you guys do? I'm just wondering what path I would have to take class-wise at college to land a job working on a spacecraft's systems and electronics, or a launch vehicle.
Thanks

Most launch vehicles, unlike airplanes, don't fly back and need routine maintenance.  They're mostly "throw away" hardware once launched.  The only one that does is the Space Shuttle and that's a pretty limited job field there.  

So there are two type of technician jobs in the launch vehicle business, production (building parts and assemble for the vehicle) and launch pad operations (maintain the pad, hook-up and pre-launch preparation, checkouts, and launch).  

If you're interested in production, then for Delta & Atlas (in the future) it will be in the Decatur, AL factory.  If you're interested in being a launch pad technicians, then there are 3 pads in Cape Canveral (1 for Atlas and 2 for Delta), also another 3 pads on the west coast in Vandenberg AFB, CA.  

Check the ULA Job opening website for opening and how to apply.

http://www.ulalaunch.com/index_careers.html

There are also lots of support contractors at both CCAFS and VAFB.  Someone maybe able to post links or give you name of companies to look into.

Offline MKremer

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Re: Launch Vehicle Technician careers
« Reply #9 on: 10/08/2007 04:07 am »
If I knew, back 30 years ago, what I know now about how the scientific and commercial space programs would mature, I would have changed to an Engineering degree and focused on satellite assembly/integration. 2nd choice would be rocket engines or thrusters. I'm not sure that pure engineering design/development/troubleshooting work would be as satisfying as constantly having hands-on with the actual hardware itself.

Offline antonioe

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Re: Launch Vehicle Avionics / Systems careers
« Reply #10 on: 10/08/2007 04:13 am »

Quote
Jim - 7/10/2007 12:39 PM
Quote
gladiator1332 - 7/10/2007 1:26 PM Thanks for the replies. I probably won't go the engineering route. I want more of an A&P Mechanic experience, but working on launch vehicles. I like troubleshooting problems and taking things apart. I'm the type of person who actually likes when something goes a bit screwy with my computer, as it gives me something to fix and troubleshoot.
Hate to burst your bubble, engineers do the troubleshooting, techs just turn wrenches

Wait a doggone minnit! At least WE at Orbital have a more-or-less officially defined category of "supertechs" - individuals whose experience, educational background or simply raw abilities place them in that enviable grey area where they have the abilities of a tech (they won't let ME turn a wrench anymore, boo hoo...) but also the analytical and deductive skills of an engineer - boy, do they do troubleshooting!

That said, troubleshooting on live, space hardware (or ground support equipment that TOUCHES flight hardware) is done in a very "peculiar" way.   There are certain principles that MUST be observed, such as "configuration control" - you must NOT "break the configuration" under which the anomaly happened (woe to you if you have to debug a broken configuration!...), you must write down all you troubleshooting steps before you perform them ("first, I'll attach a voltage probe at TP7, then I will set the scope to foo sensitivity, then...")  under UNUSUAL circumstances you will then apply the procedure immediately, checking each step in your list as you perform it and writing down the measurements; but more often you will ask somebody with the appropriate knowledge of

  1. the system being troubleshot (hmm... is that an english word?...)
  2. the focus discipline (i.e., power, RF, comm, mechanical, pressure...) and
  3. testing and troubleshooting

to look over your written troubleshooting procedure to make shure you don't "fry" something in the process.  In extreme cases you have to present it to a "panel" that usually includes the Program Manager of the Chief Engineer... that's when you are trying something close to the bare silicon (or the "bare metal" for structures)

It is exciting, head-spinning and sometimes scary stuff!!!  If you set yourself to become a "supertech" you can plan you carrier accordingly.  We do most of our rockets at Chandler, AZ and Vandenberg AFB, CA, but the Taurus II development is heavily based in Nothern Virginia (Dulles - that's where I work).  Send me a PM is you want further info.

By the way, troubleshooting a satellite is every bit as exciting as troubleshooting a rocket, except your chances of success are higher (sometimes troubleshooting a rocket is more like pasting together the pieces of an airplane wreck...)  We do all our satellites in Norther Virginia (largest satellite factory east of the Mississippi)

ARS LONGA, VITA BREVIS...

Offline MKremer

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Re: Launch Vehicle Avionics / Systems careers
« Reply #11 on: 10/08/2007 04:22 am »
Quote
antonioe - 7/10/2007  11:13 PM
Wait a doggone minnit! At least WE at Orbital have a more-or-less officially defined category of "supertechs" - individuals whose experience, educational background or simply raw abilities place them in that enviable grey area where they have the abilities of a tech (they won't let ME turn a wrench anymore, boo hoo...) but also the analytical and deductive skills of an engineer - boy, do they do troubleshooting!

Nice to know... BUT... when a new satellite is being built, do your techs not only position and screw in the subassembly, but also do the electrical connections and initial installation checks? If not, what division of labor is used to accomplish each step in the subassembly installation process?
What about wiring harness and thermal sensor installations and testing?


Offline Propforce

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Re: Launch Vehicle Avionics / Systems careers
« Reply #12 on: 10/08/2007 04:34 am »
Quote
antonioe - 7/10/2007 9:13 PM

Quote
Jim - 7/10/2007 12:39 PM

 Hate to burst your bubble, engineers do the troubleshooting, techs just turn wrenches

Wait a doggone minnit!

 

You must forgive Jim.  The closest he's come on space/ launch vehicle hardware is on power point charts delivered from contractors.  :laugh:

 


Offline Gene DiGennaro

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RE: Launch Vehicle Technician careers
« Reply #13 on: 10/08/2007 12:48 pm »
Do yourself a favor, if you can finish engineering school do it.  I have worked for over 20 years as an engineering technician and believe me, the engineers get the perks, the breaks, the glory of any high tech firm. Not that I'm unhappy with being a technician, far from it, it's just that techs are the Rodney Dangerfields of engineering. I can talk the talk and walk the walk, but at the end of the day I have no degree so my input just isn't as respected as someone who went to engineering school. The days of making engineer without formal training are long gone.

Once upon a time, I tried to go back and finish my degree. However, family life is not conducive to something as demanding as an engineering degree. If you're still single, do it now, don't make my mistake.

Gene

Offline Jim

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Re: Launch Vehicle Avionics / Systems careers
« Reply #14 on: 10/08/2007 01:00 pm »
Quote
Propforce - 8/10/2007  12:34 AM

Quote
antonioe - 7/10/2007 9:13 PM

Quote
Jim - 7/10/2007 12:39 PM

Hate to burst your bubble, engineers do the troubleshooting, techs just turn wrenches

Wait a doggone minnit!

You must forgive Jim.  The closest he's come on space/ launch vehicle hardware is on power point charts delivered from contractors.  :laugh:


Must be just jealousy

You can't be more wrong.   I worked for Boeing for 8 years and did hands on flight hardware for 15 shuttle missions.  Actual hand ons (got many grievances).   Also I was a test controller for the USAF.  Been around more hardware than any design engineer.  Know more about more different programs and have the ability to effect changes in them than any ULA engineer.  System engineering involves more than just hardware

Edit:

Was also a supervisor of techs for 2 years

Offline dwmzmm

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Re: Launch Vehicle Technician careers
« Reply #15 on: 10/08/2007 02:01 pm »
I had wanted to get a degree in aerospace engineering when I entered college in 1975, but didn't as the job prospects in that area didn't
look good.
Dave, NAR # 21853 SR.

Offline Scotty

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Re: Launch Vehicle Technician careers
« Reply #16 on: 10/08/2007 05:08 pm »
A real engineering degree is now required for many technician positions in the space world now-a-days.
Be it military tech school, or community college, the equivalant of a two year degree is almost a must.
A four year degree is a minimum requirement for any engineering position, also they want real work experience in the aero-space world.
Still, with such a sudden big demand for design engineers with the Constellation program, many compines have had to lower their expecticions, and are now hiring right out of school, with little or no work experience.
USA is hiring at at Kennedy, along with ASRC Aerospace, and Jacobs is hiring at Huntsville.

But to answer your question, an airline pilot is not a bad life!
There is a big demand for entry level pilots, as the commuter airlines have a constant turnover with their pilots moving on up to the bigger carriers.
Even A&P mechanics are in demand.


Offline charlieb

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Re: Launch Vehicle Technician careers
« Reply #17 on: 10/09/2007 04:43 pm »
Scotty has it pretty much correcto....     You could also think abot spacecraft integration and testing.  Loral in Palo Alto has openings pretty much these days as well as Orbital - just outside of DC by Dulles Apt. But do note that the hours in this business are long, and vary within the 24 hour clock; you want to work out in the weather - erect rockets..  And dface the possibility of let-downs when things go ka-boom, or when satellites blink-out or have major 'strokes' in the middle of the night; those kind of phone calls lead me to want to drink heavily  ;)
Former Shuttle Mission Ops Eng  (In them days DF24 - INCO GROUP/COMMS, Now DS231-AVIONICS BRANCH).

Offline William Barton

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Re: Launch Vehicle Avionics / Systems careers
« Reply #18 on: 10/09/2007 05:10 pm »
Quote
antonioe - 7/10/2007  12:13 AM

Wait a doggone minnit! At least WE at Orbital have a more-or-less officially defined category of "supertechs" - individuals whose experience, educational background or simply raw abilities place them in that enviable grey area where they have the abilities of a tech (they won't let ME turn a wrench anymore, boo hoo...) but also the analytical and deductive skills of an engineer - boy, do they do troubleshooting!


Years ago, when Orbital was new and I'd recently quit my job as a marine machinery mechanic so I could go play with computers, I briefly considered approaching Orbital to see if they had any use for a mechanic with proven writing skills and some fast-evolving software design ideas. You almost make me wish I'd thought about it harder...

Offline antonioe

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Re: Launch Vehicle Technician careers
« Reply #19 on: 10/09/2007 05:47 pm »

Quote
charlieb - 9/10/2007 11:43 AM But do note that the hours in this business are long, and vary within the 24 hour clock; you want to work out in the weather - erect rockets.. And dface the possibility of let-downs when things go ka-boom, or when satellites blink-out or have major 'strokes' in the middle of the night; those kind of phone calls lead me to want to drink heavily ;)

Yes, the hours are long, and the level of anxiety is high.  But with satellites, when you get to a certain point in the integration, the machine starts to become alive, to breath, to have a heartbeat... I&T (Integration and Testing) engineers and techs alike start to develop a real "relationship" with the spacecraft, to be able to read small, minute details of the vehicle's behavior... that's why Orbital INSISTS on having the I&T team follow through to launch integration and early in-flight ops... only they can tell wether a piece of telemetry indicates major incoming trouble or it's just a well-known, totally harmless quirk of that satellite.

The spacecraft becomes your baby, your child, you develop an endearement comparable to that of an affectionate pet... that is why when trouble develops in space, and you are thousands of [insert your favorite unit of length here] away, you have this feeling that it's right next to you, sharing your pillowcase, sort to speak... you toss and turn, wondering how you will nurse this sick child back to health.

Quite a difference from rockets; in fifteen minutes or less, your child will either perform the duty for which it was born and raised or die a sudden and nearly-instantaneous death, going out in a blaze of glory (and taking somebody else's dear satellite along, unfortunately...)  With rockets, you have to develop a certain amount of detachment, of fatalism, a thick skin... once you light the fuse, you've done your job, for better or for worse.

If your rocket reaches orbit as planned, you get this sudden rush of adrenaline, the feeling of "we did it!" - there is an after-launch party, some people get thrown to, or jump by themselves on the pool, we all fly back home, and start working on the next launch.

With a satellite, it's like growing old and seeing your child go through infancy (I&T?..), puberty (launch?...), adolescence (on orbit checkout?...) maturity (operational life) and old age (end of mission)... sometimes he/she gets sick, sometimes its health is restored... many, many years of relationship with a child begotten from your craft.

ARS LONGA, VITA BREVIS...

Offline Jim

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Re: Launch Vehicle Technician careers
« Reply #20 on: 10/09/2007 07:31 pm »
JPL calls it ATLO.   Assembly, Test and Launch Operations

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