Author Topic: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 2) (Read 582626 times)

robertross · « **Reply #20 on:** 09/23/2010 12:12 am »

Quote from: mr. mark on 09/23/2010 12:01 am

Launch date is October 23rd not September 23rd. That date is dependent on the cape launch schedule and the condition of the vehicle.

corrected with a more accurate reply

beancounter · « **Reply #21 on:** 09/23/2010 03:44 am »

Now NET 8/9th November 2010.

JohnFornaro · « **Reply #22 on:** 09/23/2010 03:29 pm »

Simulated cargo?

How about Lionel train coal:

http://www.lionel.com/Products/Finder/SearchResults.cfm?doAction=search&Keywords=coal&searchWithin=All

Antares · « **Reply #23 on:** 09/24/2010 05:44 am »

There will be lots and lots of things SpaceX can distribute on Capitol Hill.

marsavian · « **Reply #24 on:** 09/24/2010 06:32 pm »

http://vator.tv/news/2010-09-24-elon-musk-spacex-is-the-fedex-of-space

mr. mark · « **Reply #25 on:** 09/25/2010 02:40 am »

Interesting interview. I like how cargo is brought up. Spacex the Fed Ex of Space, I like that. Wondering how he figures Spacex will be the primary transporter of astronauts to the ISS? Does he know something we don't?

Jim · « **Reply #26 on:** 09/25/2010 03:24 am »

Quote from: mr. mark on 09/25/2010 02:40 am

Does he know something we don't?

No, he was just chest thumping

Lars_J · « **Reply #27 on:** 09/25/2010 03:25 am »

Quote from: mr. mark on 09/25/2010 02:40 am

Interesting interview. I like how cargo is brought up. Spacex the Fed Ex of Space, I like that. Wondering how he figures Spacex will be the primary transporter of astronauts to the ISS? Does he know something we don't?

If "Commercial Crew" is funded, and SpaceX is one of the selected bidders, chances are good that Dragon[crew] would be ready before either CST-100 (the other likely commercial option) and Orion.

During that time period, until competitors come online, SpaceX would be just that - "the primary transporter of astronauts to the ISS". It isn't that far-fetched of a scenario.

But nothing is certain.

pathfinder_01 · « **Reply #28 on:** 09/25/2010 03:37 am »

Quote from: Lars_J on 09/25/2010 03:25 am

Quote from: mr. mark on 09/25/2010 02:40 am
Interesting interview. I like how cargo is brought up. Spacex the Fed Ex of Space, I like that. Wondering how he figures Spacex will be the primary transporter of astronauts to the ISS? Does he know something we don't?

If "Commercial Crew" is funded, and SpaceX is one of the selected bidders, chances are good that Dragon[crew] would be ready before either CST-100 (the other likely commercial option) and Orion.

During that time period, until competitors come online, SpaceX would be just that - "the primary transporter of astronauts to the ISS". It isn't that far-fetched of a scenario.

But nothing is certain.

I would love to see that happen, but looking at his manifest and given the amount of time/money needed. I don’t see that happening. If he were Boeing, he could be flying people in less than 2 years but he is a smaller firm. It is going to take him longer to do it because he doesn’t have the same resources(Money, personel, perhaps even equipment).

SpacexULA · « **Reply #29 on:** 09/25/2010 04:14 am »

Quote from: pathfinder_01 on 09/25/2010 03:37 am

I would love to see that happen, but looking at his manifest and given the amount of time/money needed. I don’t see that happening. If he were Boeing, he could be flying people in less than 2 years but he is a smaller firm. It is going to take him longer to do it because he doesn’t have the same resources(Money, personel, perhaps even equipment).

If both Boeing and SpaceX where green lighted today, SpaceX would have 1 huge advantage, they will have 6-8 already payed for Dragon capsules going to the ISS or used in the COTS test flights that can be used as hardware simulators on the ground, or as test flights when they go to ISS.

To my knowledge there is nothing stopping SpaceX from using the CRS flights to test their LAS, environment controls, Block 2 upgrade or any other Dragon or Falcon upgrades.

If that's the case SpaceX can effectively double bill internally the CRS flights as Commercial crew development flights.

clongton · « **Reply #30 on:** 09/25/2010 11:58 am »

Quote from: SpacexULA on 09/25/2010 04:14 am

Quote from: pathfinder_01 on 09/25/2010 03:37 am
I would love to see that happen, but looking at his manifest and given the amount of time/money needed. I don’t see that happening. If he were Boeing, he could be flying people in less than 2 years but he is a smaller firm. It is going to take him longer to do it because he doesn’t have the same resources(Money, personel, perhaps even equipment).

If both Boeing and SpaceX where green lighted today, SpaceX would have 1 huge advantage, they will have 6-8 already payed for Dragon capsules going to the ISS or used in the COTS test flights that can be used as hardware simulators on the ground, or as test flights when they go to ISS.

To my knowledge there is nothing stopping SpaceX from using the CRS flights to test their LAS, environment controls, Block 2 upgrade or any other Dragon or Falcon upgrades.

If that's the case SpaceX can effectively double bill internally the CRS flights as Commercial crew development flights.

If I were Elon I would find every way possible to test as much of the manned equipment as possible on the cargo flights. Anything I could do to move deployment of crew capability to the left. He has a real opportunity here and I'll bet dimes to dollars he is all over it.

I hope he succeeds - big time.

Jim · « **Reply #31 on:** 09/25/2010 12:28 pm »

Quote from: SpacexULA on 09/25/2010 04:14 am

To my knowledge there is nothing stopping SpaceX from using the CRS flights to test their LAS, environment controls, Block 2 upgrade or any other Dragon or Falcon upgrades.

Yes, there is. Mass to orbit and NASA buys the whole flight.

mmeijeri · « **Reply #32 on:** 09/25/2010 12:40 pm »

Why would mass to orbit be an issue if SpaceX goes for a liquid pusher LAS? Are the abort motors very heavy, or is mass tight as it is?

Namechange User · « **Reply #33 on:** 09/25/2010 01:03 pm »

Because the LAS design has nothing to do with the fact that it indeed has mass and that mass takes away from the potential cargo.

mmeijeri · « **Reply #34 on:** 09/25/2010 01:05 pm »

What about the difference between a common liquid propellant and separate solid propellant?

Namechange User · « **Reply #35 on:** 09/25/2010 01:46 pm »

What about them? They still have mass. You have the mass of the propellant, solid or liquid. You have engines, tanking, valving, etc. All that adds weight, weight that would be subtracted from potential cargo upmass.

mmeijeri · « **Reply #36 on:** 09/25/2010 01:55 pm »

Obviously, but if the propellant is the same propellant as the propellant for orbit insertion as SpaceX is planning, then a whole chunk of that cost disappears. My question was if it would still be a problem.

Nomadd · « **Reply #37 on:** 09/25/2010 02:07 pm »

Uh....how can you test the LAS on a cargo flight anyhow? It's not like you could use it.

mmeijeri · « **Reply #38 on:** 09/25/2010 02:10 pm »

Sparky · « **Reply #39 on:** 09/25/2010 03:09 pm »

Quote from: Nomadd on 09/25/2010 02:07 pm

Uh....how can you test the LAS on a cargo flight anyhow? It's not like you could use it.

Since Dragon is designed to be reusable, you could use the cargo as a mass simulator for a crew, and then fish the capsule out of the water, refurbish and place it on a new F9. Technically not on the "cargo flight", just on a cargo Dragon.

I suppose it would also work to have a LAS aboard cargo missions for no other reasons than to save the cargo. If your launch is a success, then great. If not, then you get the opportunity to test the LAS, plus the added benefit of being able to relaunch the same cargo.