Author Topic: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6  (Read 720955 times)

Offline nacnud

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #440 on: 12/11/2017 03:09 pm »
The factory in Buffalo is going to produce the solar roofs for Tesla (who now own solar city), google 'Gigafactory 2' for more.

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #441 on: 12/11/2017 04:29 pm »
The factory in Buffalo is going to produce the solar roofs for Tesla (who now own solar city), google 'Gigafactory 2' for more.

Google also shows a lot of negative articles about that site.  Seems like way more than the battery factory.

In any case, Nomadd has shown us that the solar panels for Boca Chica are being provided by Canadian Solar, which includes manufacturing sites in China, Indonesia, Vietnam and Brazil.

Offline John Alan

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #442 on: 12/11/2017 04:52 pm »
Just to put some $$$$ on the above pics...
Each box/pallet of PV panels in the above truck has 26 pcs at about $250+ each inside...
Call it $6500+ each... and looks like the trailer is kinda full of em..  :o
« Last Edit: 12/11/2017 04:58 pm by John Alan »

Offline DOCinCT

If we assume (because I cannot find proper sources in 3 min) that you can make methane from CO2 and water at 50% efficiency, 5500 tons of propellant, or a thousand tons of methane for a full BFR launch embodies at 4.4*10^7J/Kg, 4.4*10^13J, one launch every two days or so.
So, for a P2P launch pad, you need of the order of a 40GW solar plant to do five launches a day, a patch around 15km in diameter, which is quite large, even for texas.

More like 75% CO2 conversion rate (see Compact and Lightweight Sabatier Reactor for Carbon
Dioxide Reduction Christian Junaedi, Kyle Hawley, Dennis Walsh, Subir Roychoudhury, Morgan B. Abney and Jay L. Perry)
Limitation is efficiency of splitting H2O into H2, O2 as the former is needed for the catalyst based Sabatier reaction.
EDIT - A full sized version of a methane/O2 ISRU plant will have to happen before crew vehicles show up on Mars.  Boca Chica would be a good test site for one.
« Last Edit: 12/11/2017 05:25 pm by DOCinCT »

Offline speedevil

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #444 on: 12/11/2017 06:45 pm »
Just to put some $$$$ on the above pics...
Each box/pallet of PV panels in the above truck has 26 pcs at about $250+ each inside...
Call it $6500+ each... and looks like the trailer is kinda full of em..  :o

The number (26*28 (guess as to how many boxes)*250W) = 180kW, or 700kWh/day or so (av), 29kW, is enough to fuel BFS in a couple of decades or so.


Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #445 on: 12/11/2017 07:08 pm »
There were two trailers this morning.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline John Alan

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #446 on: 12/11/2017 10:44 pm »
Just to put some $$$$ on the above pics...
Each box/pallet of PV panels in the above truck has 26 pcs at about $250+ each inside...
Call it $6500+ each... and looks like the trailer is kinda full of em..  :o

The number (26*28 (guess as to how many boxes)*250W) = 180kW, or 700kWh/day or so (av), 29kW, is enough to fuel BFS in a couple of decades or so.

Reality is less kwh then that per day... Maybe TWO truckloads of panels might get you there...

But still... back figure the value of the power and PV still looks silly on paper to me...  payback wise
Every time I sit down and do a real life calculation of a 10kw nameplate fixed array here in Central Illinois, USA
Decent 1 axis (adjust by hand every 90 days) tilt racking (that can handle our 100mph wind gusts)...
Good but kinda cheap grid tied power inverters and the local power grid is my only storage (as such)
Real good but not Cadillac PV panels (I like LG's myself)...
Then look at my utility bill... right at 6 cents a KWh for the raw power here...
(A lot of nuke power around Chicago keeps us in cheap electric rates statewide)
Meaning every KWh I can make only saves me 6 cents reality...
THEN pencil out the payback period just to break even... (last time I did this spring, 8 years)
Then look at the fact the PV panels are a wear item... (they slowly degrade on output)
Same with the Inverters (damn lucky if they make it 10+ years, untouched)
In short...
You get your money back in about 10 years
You get enough ahead in 20 years to replace the whole worn out system
Nope... at 6 cents a KWh... makes NO sense...  :-\

However... at 12 cents KWh... not so bad...  ???
« Last Edit: 12/11/2017 11:29 pm by John Alan »

Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #447 on: 12/11/2017 11:04 pm »
 It looks like about 40 of these double stacks, so 80 crates/2,080 330 watt panels, or 686.4kw. They're also doing the lot to the west of the dishes, so 2.5 acres or so, which comes close to the 250kw per acre rule of thumb for the more efficient panels (17%). Anybody who's ever used solar knows those ratings are optimistic to say the least. But at $.72 a watt, not a bad deal.
The Tesla guy in charge asked me if they were starting work too early in the morning. They're trying to catch up from last week's apocalyptic winter storm of well over 1/4 inch of snow.

 All being supervised by a local resident.
« Last Edit: 12/11/2017 11:21 pm by Nomadd »
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline groundbound

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #448 on: 12/11/2017 11:59 pm »
They're trying to catch up from last week's apocalyptic winter storm of well over 1/4 inch of snow.


We were hoping that you would also include pictures of the 5 meter snow drifts.

Online launchwatcher

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #449 on: 12/12/2017 01:28 am »
But still... back figure the value of the power and PV still looks silly on paper to me...  payback wise
How much power can the current electric grid deliver to Boca Chica?    Some combination of backup generator + batteries + solar might be the expedient solution while they wait for bigger wires to be run...


Offline RonM

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #450 on: 12/12/2017 02:23 am »
But still... back figure the value of the power and PV still looks silly on paper to me...  payback wise
How much power can the current electric grid deliver to Boca Chica?    Some combination of backup generator + batteries + solar might be the expedient solution while they wait for bigger wires to be run...

And solar power will work a lot better in sunny Boca Chica than Central Illinois.

Offline John Alan

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #451 on: 12/12/2017 03:41 am »
But still... back figure the value of the power and PV still looks silly on paper to me...  payback wise
How much power can the current electric grid deliver to Boca Chica?    Some combination of backup generator + batteries + solar might be the expedient solution while they wait for bigger wires to be run...

And solar power will work a lot better in sunny Boca Chica than Central Illinois.
It does slightly better... As I found this evening... not as much as you think... however...
My fictional 10K watt system improves by about 500 KWh a year yield... moving it there.

I plugged Nomadd"s stated 686.4kw nameplate system installed value and zip 78521 into PVwatts...  ???
http://pvwatts.nrel.gov/
Using 7 cents a KWh as value... Not the gold mine it seems is it...  :(
(fixed racking due south at 26* tilt... premium panels... open racking... 7 cents)

On edit...
80 crates is about a half million dollars in PV panels alone...  :o
Like I said... breaks even in about 10 years...  :P
« Last Edit: 12/12/2017 04:26 am by John Alan »

Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #452 on: 12/12/2017 04:28 am »
 20 miles of decent 3 phase (from the big MVEC sub station) would be in the range of a million dollars to run. Maybe more for the class that SpaceX might need when things get serious. I don't know what electrical genius worked on the EIS, but I assume 3,000 kilowatts per hour means 3,000 kilowatts. That might also go up if they start working the methane monster here. But, it would mean at least 6 or 7 megawatts of solar.
 Battery costs would have to be figured at retail in the near future, since every battery you use is one you don't sell as long as you're producing as many as you can, and Tesla isn't really in shape to subsidize SpaceX at the moment.
 I've never seen the inside of the service box to see what size wires are coming to town. Not enough to run a spaceport, I'm sure.

 John Alan's chart doesn't make solar look too bad. It would save them, very roughly, 10% of install cost every year. I'm not sure how fast they'd depreciate it, but if you can get 5% money, it's not a terrible investment.
« Last Edit: 12/12/2017 04:29 am by Nomadd »
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline RonM

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #453 on: 12/12/2017 04:33 am »
And solar power will work a lot better in sunny Boca Chica than Central Illinois.
It does slightly better... As I found this evening... not as much as you think... however...
My fictional 10K watt system improves by about 500 KWh a year yield... moving it there.

I plugged Nomadd"s stated 686.4kw nameplate system installed value and zip 78521 into PVwatts...  ???
http://pvwatts.nrel.gov/
Using 7 cents a KWh as value... Not the gold mine it seems is it...  :(
(fixed racking due south at 26* tilt... premium panels... open racking... 7 cents)

On edit...
80 crates is about a half million dollars in PV panels alone...  :o
Like I said... breaks even in about 10 years...  :P

The suggested rate on PVWatts for the Boca Chica area is 10 cents, not the 7 cents you used. Fudging the numbers is not a good way to prove your point. The breakeven should be in 7 years.

Offline John Alan

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #454 on: 12/12/2017 04:41 am »
Fair enough... 10 cents and about 7 years
I used the 7 cents per Kwh that EM quoted he would charge at his solar powered semi truck charging stations...  ;)
« Last Edit: 12/12/2017 04:46 am by John Alan »

Offline Oersted

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #455 on: 12/12/2017 09:50 am »
Pic that I  took yesterday.  :D

An ICE car. How quaint...     (Thanks for posting!)

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #456 on: 12/12/2017 01:19 pm »
They're also doing the lot to the west of the dishes, so 2.5 acres or so...

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #457 on: 12/12/2017 01:37 pm »
The Tesla guy in charge asked me if they were starting work too early in the morning. They're trying to catch up from last week's apocalyptic winter storm of well over 1/4 inch of snow.

 All being supervised by a local resident.

Did they say what the big pipes by the control center area were for?

Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #458 on: 12/12/2017 02:41 pm »


Did they say what the big pipes by the control center area were for?
I haven't talked to any SpaceX guys lately. Just Tesla/SolarCity. The three things on the right are tanks. My guess was that the big steel pipe was for sinking the 3 foot piles.
« Last Edit: 12/12/2017 02:50 pm by Nomadd »
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #459 on: 12/12/2017 05:16 pm »
Did they say what the big pipes by the control center area were for?
I haven't talked to any SpaceX guys lately. Just Tesla/SolarCity. The three things on the right are tanks. My guess was that the big steel pipe was for sinking the 3 foot piles.

Is it my imagination, or do some of these pipe sections curve?

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