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SpaceX Vehicles and Missions => SpaceX Falcon Missions Section => Topic started by: gongora on 06/13/2016 04:02 pm

Title: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 06/13/2016 04:02 pm
Discussion Thread for PSN VI (more recently known as Nusantara Satu, which translates as "One
Archipelago") mission.  The main payload is the PSN VI communications satellite.  The secondary payloads as part of a rideshare arranged by Spaceflight Industries include the SpaceIL Beresheet lunar lander, which will separate in a supersync GTO (around 60k km apogee).  The S5 smallsat from the Air Force Research Laboratory will stay attached to PSN VI until it reaches GEO and then separate.  Total mass of the three payloads including the dispensers for the two smaller passengers is 4850kg.  Nusantara Satu is 4100kg, Beresheet is 585kg, S5 is 60kg.

NSF Threads for PSN VI : Discussion (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=40516.0) / Updates (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47391.0)
NSF Articles for PSN VI :
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/news/spacex/ (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/news/spacex/)
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/10/israels-first-moon-launch-falcon-delayed-weeks/ (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/10/israels-first-moon-launch-falcon-delayed-weeks/)

Successful launch Feb. 21 at 20:45 EST (01:45 UTC on the 22nd) on Falcon 9 booster 1048.3 (previously used for Iridium 7 and SAOCOM 1A) from SLC-40 to supersync GTO.  ASDS landing was successful.  No attempt was made to recover the fairings, possibly because of the weather.



PSN VI is a communications satellite being built for the Indonesian operator PT Pasifik Satelit Nusantara (http://www.psn.co.id/).

SSL Press Release (http://sslmda.com/html/pressreleases/pr20141119.html)
Quote
PALO ALTO, Calif. – November 19, 2014 — Space Systems/Loral (SSL), a leading provider of commercial satellites, today announced that the contract award previously reported on October 29, 2014, was for the Indonesian satellite operator, PT Pasifik Satelit Nusantara (PSN). The commercial communications satellite, named PSN VI, will provide service throughout South East Asia and includes a High Throughput Satellite (HTS) payload for service in Indonesia.

With both C-band and Ku-band transponders, PSN VI will be used for voice and data communications, broadband Internet, and video distribution throughout the Indonesian archipelago. PSN is the first private satellite telecommunications company in Indonesia and a leading Asian provider of a full range of satellite-based telecommunication services.

“PSN has a charter to use satellites to provide innovative communications solutions that help improve lives and support economic growth in remote regions,” said John Celli, president of SSL. “We are very glad to have the opportunity to help PSN further this endeavor by providing, not just a satellite, but a package of services to support its business goals, including launch.”

When launched in early 2017, PSN VI will be located at 146 degrees East longitude. Based on SSL’s proven 1300 satellite platform, which provides the flexibility for a broad range of applications and technology advances, the satellite is designed to deliver service for 15 years or longer.

PSN VI was originally going to be a Boeing 702SP satellite that could be dual launched like the Eutelsat/ABS launches, but they could not find another company to share the launch and switched the order to SSL.
SpaceNews: Indonesia’s PSN Switches to SSL after Boeing Unable To Pair Up All-electric Satellite (http://spacenews.com/42606indonesias-psn-switches-to-ssl-after-boeing-unable-to-pair-up-all/)

The more interesting part of this mission is what's riding along with PSN VI:
SpaceNews: Falcon 9 Co-passenger Found for SS/L-built PSN-6 Satellite (http://spacenews.com/falcon-9-co-passenger-found-for-ssl-built-psn-6-satellite/)
Quote
One official said the payload in question was a U.S. government satellite that would be carried into space attached to the PSN-6 before being released just above the geostationary arc 36,000 kilometers over the equator.

Palto Alto, California-based SSL won the PSN-6 contract in November 2014 in part by making a long-standing Falcon 9 launch option part of its bid. The cost of the launch to SSL was apparently low enough that it could integrate it into its offer and win the PSN business with or without a co-passenger.
This article also said PSN VI will mass around 5000kg and use a mix of chemical and electric propulsion.

[Dec. 5, 2017] PSN Launches a USD 230 Million Satellite 2018 (https://inet.detik.com/telecommunication/d-3756538/psn-luncurkan-satelit-usd-230-juta-akhir-2018)
Quote
Pasifik Satelit Nusantara (PSN) will launch a new satellite named PSN VI. The satellite with a cost of USD 230 million will be flown in the fourth quarter of 2018.

To launch this satellite, PSN gets funding from Canada's export credit agency, namely Export Development Canada (EDC).

"We can finance USD 230 million in total project costs, of which 70% are loans and 30% are capital," PSN CEO Adi Rahman Adiwoso said at the financing signing ceremony at The Residence OnFive Grand Hyatt, Jakarta, Tuesday (05/12/2017) .

[Sep. 11, 2018] Spaceflight Offers Rideshare Launches to Geosynchronous Transfer Orbit (https://www.spaceflightindustries.com/2018/09/11/spaceflight-offers-rideshare-launches-to-geosynchronous-transfer-orbit/)
Quote
The first mission will launch from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station aboard a SpaceX Falcon 9 which was procured by SSL, a Maxar Technologies company. It will represent the two companies’ first combined launch and Spaceflight’s first mission beyond Lower Earth Orbit (LEO).
...
The manifest for this Falcon 9 GTO rideshare mission is completely full. It features several undisclosed payloads along with an unmanned lunar spacecraft from SpaceIL, an Israeli nonprofit organization that was competing in the Google Lunar XPrize to land a spacecraft on the Moon. The first rideshare satellites will separate in GTO and then the SSL host spacecraft will continue on to Geostationary Orbit (GEO) where the remaining rideshare satellites will be separated.

PSN VI on Gunter's Space Page (http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/psn-6.htm)



Other SpaceX resources on NASASpaceflight:
   SpaceX News Articles (Recent) (http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/spacex/)
   SpaceX News Articles from 2006 (Including numerous exclusive Elon interviews) (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=21862.0)
   SpaceX Dragon Articles (http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/dragon/)
   SpaceX Missions Section (with Launch Manifest and info on past and future missions) (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=55.0)

   L2 SpaceX Section (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=60.0)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: yokem55 on 06/13/2016 04:31 pm
Could the co passenger be the recently announced NROL mission? The timeframe is right...
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Lar on 06/13/2016 04:38 pm
If I'm not mistaken that's the second Indonesian organization to get a lift uphill on a Falcon???
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Robotbeat on 06/13/2016 04:49 pm
If I'm not mistaken that's the second Indonesian organization to get a lift uphill on a Falcon???
First one was Malaysian (RazakSAT, last Falcon 1 flight, and the only actual payload--not demo mass--successfully launched on Falcon 1). They're neighboring countries with a very similar language but definitely not the same one.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: rockets4life97 on 03/25/2017 11:46 am
Could the co passenger be the recently announced NROL mission? The timeframe is right...

Any updates on whether PSN might be flying with NRO launch in April?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 03/25/2017 01:02 pm
Could the co passenger be the recently announced NROL mission? The timeframe is right...

Any updates on whether PSN might be flying with NRO launch in April?

No mention of PSN 6 lately, and there is an FCC application for a RTLS flight that could be for the NROL payload (since it wouldn't make sense for anything else on the manifest.)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: deruch on 05/18/2017 02:33 am
http://spacenews.com/china-great-wall-industry-corp-lands-indonesian-commercial-satellite-order/

Quote
The funded satellites are PSN-6, a C- and Ku-band satellite ordered from Space Systems Loral in 2014 that is scheduled to launch next year on a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket, the Palapa-N1 joint venture satellite, and the ageing Palapa-D. Adiwoso said PSN will seek to prolong the life of Palapa-D by moving it from 113 degrees east into a different orbit at 144 degrees east. Adiwoso said 70 percent of the capacity on PSN-6 is already sold.

Article suggests it will launch in 2018.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Lar on 05/18/2017 03:53 am
If I'm not mistaken that's the second Indonesian organization to get a lift uphill on a Falcon???
First one was Malaysian (RazakSAT, last Falcon 1 flight, and the only actual payload--not demo mass--successfully launched on Falcon 1). They're neighboring countries with a very similar language but definitely not the same one.

I wasn't talking about RazakSat. (although I can't recall what I had in mind at the time) And I'm fairly aware of the difference between Malaysia and Indonesia, since my wife is Indonesian...

http://spacenews.com/china-great-wall-industry-corp-lands-indonesian-commercial-satellite-order/

Quote
The funded satellites are PSN-6, a C- and Ku-band satellite ordered from Space Systems Loral in 2014 that is scheduled to launch next year on a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket, the Palapa-N1 joint venture satellite, and the ageing Palapa-D. Adiwoso said PSN will seek to prolong the life of Palapa-D by moving it from 113 degrees east into a different orbit at 144 degrees east. Adiwoso said 70 percent of the capacity on PSN-6 is already sold.

Article suggests it will launch in 2018.

Not sure I see how moving it prolongs the life.. doesn't it use at least some fuel otherwise used for stationkeeping to move 30 degrees. Even if one drifts it slowly... Does it have to do with improving the angle/distance of the antennae or something? I don't see that either.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 05/18/2017 04:22 am
Not sure I see how moving it prolongs the life.. doesn't it use at least some fuel otherwise used for stationkeeping to move 30 degrees. Even if one drifts it slowly... Does it have to do with improving the angle/distance of the antennae or something? I don't see that either.

Probably let it go into an inclined orbit at the new location?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 01/19/2018 08:22 pm
[detik inet] PSN Launches $ 230 Million Satellite End 2018 (https://inet.detik.com/telecommunication/d-3756538/psn-luncurkan-satelit-usd-230-juta-akhir-2018)
Quote
Jakarta - Pacific Satelit Nusantara (PSN) will launch its new satellite named PSN VI. The $ 230 million satellite will be flown in the fourth quarter of 2018.

To launch the satellite, PSN is financed by Canadian export credit agency, Export Development Canada (EDC).

"We can finance USD 230 million of total project cost, of which 70% is loan and 30% is capital," said PSN CEO Adi Rahman Adiwoso at the signing ceremony of the financing at The Residence OnFive Grand Hyatt, Jakarta, Tuesday (05/12/2017)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 05/08/2018 10:12 pm
[Jakarta Globe] PSN Teams Up With Indosat, Buys Satellite From CGWIC (http://jakartaglobe.id/business/psn-teams-indosat-buys-satellite-cgwic/)
Quote
The company also plans to launch PSN VI satellite in 2019
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 06/27/2018 03:19 am
Tweet from Peter B. de Selding (https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/1011804491409002496):
Quote
ndonesia's @PSNengage operator selects @HughesNet Jupiter broadband ground network for PSN-6 HTS satellite. Contract includes gateways, remote terminals, network management system. Internet penetration in Indonesia just 40% in 2017. PSN-6 to launch late this yr w/ @SpaceX.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: vaporcobra on 06/27/2018 04:27 am
Tweet from Peter B. de Selding (https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/1011804491409002496):
Quote
ndonesia's @PSNengage operator selects @HughesNet Jupiter broadband ground network for PSN-6 HTS satellite. Contract includes gateways, remote terminals, network management system. Internet penetration in Indonesia just 40% in 2017. PSN-6 to launch late this yr w/ @SpaceX.

Damn, SSL has really been hammering satellites out 24/7. Will be surprised if this launches in 2018, though.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Nomadd on 06/27/2018 04:34 am

Not sure I see how moving it prolongs the life.. doesn't it use at least some fuel otherwise used for stationkeeping to move 30 degrees. Even if one drifts it slowly... Does it have to do with improving the angle/distance of the antennae or something? I don't see that either.
Because if they didn't move it would be retired so a more capable, higher revenue sat could take it's place. 144E is not as good a slot.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Lar on 06/27/2018 03:19 pm
Thanks Nomadd ... I hadn't thought of the reuse elsewhere vs retire aspect.  (Also, nice necromancy of that old post!)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 07/10/2018 03:43 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

Just wanted to create a place for news/discussion about the SpaceIL lander that is apparently still launching with SpaceX.  When we figure out which flight it is actually going on I will merge this into the appropriate mission thread.

The discussion started in the manifest thread here:
https://twitter.com/TeamSpaceIL/status/1016633238008270850
Quote
We have a launch and landing dates! December 2018- Launch, February 13 2019- First Israeli spacecraft lands on the moon! SpaceIL's moon mission is officially underway
https://twitter.com/Cakeofdestiny/status/1016656640244936704
Quote
It will launch on a SpaceX rocket. SpaceX doesn't usually have exact times this far in advance. We'll know when it's much closer.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: jpo234 on 07/10/2018 03:45 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

This is odd.  If it is launching from the Cape then it's either the GTO rideshare that Spaceflight has been extremely quiet about (I've been assuming they would start talking about it after the endlessly slipping SSO-A finally launches) or some other GTO mission like PSN VI (which was rumored to have a US government rideshare companion).

On the XPrize link they say (https://lunar.xprize.org/press-release/israeli-google-lunar-xprize-team-first-sign-launch-agreement-private-mission):
Quote
Launch Contract for a 2017 Mission, Using a SpaceX Falcon 9 Launcher via Spaceflight Industries

I wouldn't count on that still being accurate.  It might be, but rideshare payloads move around all the time.

A 2015 blog post from Spacefilght: To the Moon! (http://spaceflight.com/to-the-moon/)

The blog post contradicts the news statement, that the primary payload is a big communication satellite.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: russianhalo117 on 07/10/2018 03:55 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

Just wanted to create a place for news/discussion about the SpaceIL lander that is apparently still launching with SpaceX.  When we figure out which flight it is actually going on I will merge this into the appropriate mission thread.

The discussion started in the manifest thread here:
https://twitter.com/TeamSpaceIL/status/1016633238008270850
Quote
We have a launch and landing dates! December 2018- Launch, February 13 2019- First Israeli spacecraft lands on the moon! SpaceIL's moon mission is officially underway
https://twitter.com/Cakeofdestiny/status/1016656640244936704
Quote
It will launch on a SpaceX rocket. SpaceX doesn't usually have exact times this far in advance. We'll know when it's much closer.
Secondary payload on the following is the only current listed flight actually flying in December per NSF schedule and there are 2 unfilled launch slots at SLC-40:

2018:
NET December - Arabsat 6A - Falcon Heavy - Kennedy LC-39A (or January 2019)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 07/10/2018 03:57 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

A 2015 blog post from Spacefilght: To the Moon! (http://spaceflight.com/to-the-moon/)

The blog post contradicts the news statement, that the primary payload is a big communication satellite.

That's 3 years old, and they didn't even specify which Spaceflight rideshare they were on (our discussion at the time was in the SSO-A thread).  The Spaceflight FCC filing for SSO-A didn't mention it (not sure it would need to if it stayed attached to the upper stage of Falcon until deployment), and unless Spaceflight is currently integrating two big rideshare missions I'm extremely skeptical of a Spaceflight GTO rideshare anywhere near December 2018.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 07/10/2018 03:58 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

Secondary payload on the following is the only current listed flight actually flying in December per NSF schedule and there are 2 unfilled launch slots at SLC-40:

2018:
NET December - Arabsat 6A - Falcon Heavy - Kennedy LC-39A (or January 2019)

This was the other flight that caught my eye when I looked at the manifest.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: russianhalo117 on 07/10/2018 04:03 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

Secondary payload on the following is the only current listed flight actually flying in December per NSF schedule and there are 2 unfilled launch slots at SLC-40:

2018:
NET December - Arabsat 6A - Falcon Heavy - Kennedy LC-39A (or January 2019)

This was the other flight that caught my eye when I looked at the manifest.
There would be excess capacity on that flight given they are using a transfer orbit and not sub-direct/direct insertion.

Lunar Lander shown in the quoted post on what is likely its payload adapter for fit checks.

Israeli lunar lander built by IAI will be launched on December 2018 onboard a SpaceX launcher. Lunar landing - Februaty 13 2019.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 07/10/2018 04:07 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

Secondary payload on the following is the only current listed flight actually flying in December per NSF schedule and there are 2 unfilled launch slots at SLC-40:

2018:
NET December - Arabsat 6A - Falcon Heavy - Kennedy LC-39A (or January 2019)

This was the other flight that caught my eye when I looked at the manifest.
There would be excess capacity on that flight given they are using a transfer orbit and not sub-direct/direct insertion.

It would either require a payload adapter that could hold the big comsat on top or a comsat that is built to carry a secondary payload.  PSN VI was reportedly built to carry a secondary payload, just not this secondary payload.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: russianhalo117 on 07/10/2018 04:12 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

Secondary payload on the following is the only current listed flight actually flying in December per NSF schedule and there are 2 unfilled launch slots at SLC-40:

2018:
NET December - Arabsat 6A - Falcon Heavy - Kennedy LC-39A (or January 2019)

This was the other flight that caught my eye when I looked at the manifest.
There would be excess capacity on that flight given they are using a transfer orbit and not sub-direct/direct insertion.

It would either require a payload adapter that could hold the big comsat on top or a comsat that is built to carry a secondary payload.  PSN VI was reportedly built to carry a secondary payload, just not this secondary payload.
view my just edited post for linked quote to pictures of lander on processing or payload adapter.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 07/10/2018 04:14 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

It would either require a payload adapter that could hold the big comsat on top or a comsat that is built to carry a secondary payload.  PSN VI was reportedly built to carry a secondary payload, just not this secondary payload.
view my just edited post for linked quote to pictures of lander on processing or payload adapter.

That doesn't show how it would be stacked with a 6 ton comsat.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: russianhalo117 on 07/10/2018 04:20 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

It would either require a payload adapter that could hold the big comsat on top or a comsat that is built to carry a secondary payload.  PSN VI was reportedly built to carry a secondary payload, just not this secondary payload.
view my just edited post for linked quote to pictures of lander on processing or payload adapter.

That doesn't show how it would be stacked with a 6 ton comsat.
I know but Spaceflight showed a carbon fibre lattice cylinder a while back that could be used with Arabsat 6A on top. SpaceX is also developing there own in house multi-payload structures but their are no public pictures at this time.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: russianhalo117 on 07/10/2018 05:02 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

Per this article it will launch on a F9 into a 60,000km tightly elliptical parking orbit which will be expanded by the lander until capture in February 2019.

https://www.haaretz.com/amp/israel-news/.premium-first-israeli-spacecraft-to-the-moon-to-launch-in-december-1.6264356
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 07/10/2018 05:07 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

Per this article it appears that it will launch on a dedicated F9 into a 60,000km tightly elliptical parking orbit which will be expanded by the lander until capture in February 2019.

https://www.haaretz.com/amp/israel-news/.premium-first-israeli-spacecraft-to-the-moon-to-launch-in-december-1.6264356

I didn't see any mention of a dedicated launch in that article, and it said they only spent $88M on the project.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Nehkara on 07/10/2018 07:00 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

Is there reason to believe this is not the Spaceflight GTO mission on the manifest?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 07/10/2018 07:05 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

Is there reason to believe this is not the Spaceflight GTO mission on the manifest?

SSO-A has slipped an entire year now and I haven't really heard anything about the GTO mission in a while.  Have you seen anything about it actually launching this year?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Nehkara on 07/10/2018 07:10 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

Is there reason to believe this is not the Spaceflight GTO mission on the manifest?

SSO-A has slipped an entire year now and I haven't really heard anything about the GTO mission in a while.  Have you seen anything about it actually launching this year?

Really just this.  This has been first indication.  It's basically a super-synchronous GTO initial orbit right?  And we know the launch services were acquired via Spaceflight Industries.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: TrevorMonty on 07/10/2018 07:39 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

Watch video. Launches to 500km SSO from Vandenburg, probably as secondary payload.

At 585Kg it could do future launches on new small LVs eg Firefly and Relativity. To big for Launcherone.

With landed mass about 185kg (burns over 400kg fuel) should be able to deliver reasonable size payload.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: envy887 on 07/10/2018 07:46 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

Watch video. Launches to 500km SSO from Vandenburg, probably as secondary payload.

At 585Kg it could do future launches on new small LVs eg Firefly and Relativity. To big for Launcherone.

With landed mass about 185kg (burns over 400kg fuel) should be able to deliver reasonable size payload.

Which video?

400/585 is not a high enough prop mass fraction to get to the lunar surface from SSO. It would need to be sent considerably higher by the LV, at least to GTO apogee.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: russianhalo117 on 07/10/2018 08:12 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

Watch video. Launches to 500km SSO from Vandenburg, probably as secondary payload.

At 585Kg it could do future launches on new small LVs eg Firefly and Relativity. To big for Launcherone.

With landed mass about 185kg (burns over 400kg fuel) should be able to deliver reasonable size payload.

Which video?

400/585 is not a high enough prop mass fraction to get to the lunar surface from SSO. It would need to be sent considerably higher by the LV, at least to GTO apogee.
Per this article it clearly states that it will launch on a F9 into a 60,000km tightly elliptical parking orbit from CCAFS where it will be deployed and the lander making burns at each perigee (makes more sense if it uses a jettisonable service module like LISA Pathfinder) until arrival nearly two months later with landing in February.

https://www.haaretz.com/amp/israel-news/.premium-first-israeli-spacecraft-to-the-moon-to-launch-in-december-1.6264356
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: crandles57 on 07/10/2018 10:08 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

I note that Sarah 1 is about the right time and is supposed to have secondary payload per Gunter at
http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/sarah-a.htm

But that is just my wild speculation as I don't even know if sun synch orbit from Vandenberg would be suitable. Difference between communication satellite and surveillaince satellite might also be something against this.

Oh never mind it is launching from Cape Canaveral.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: scr00chy on 07/10/2018 10:40 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

PSN-6 seems to be the only launch that fitst the criteria (Falcon 9 from Canaveral in December).
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: russianhalo117 on 07/10/2018 10:59 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

PSN-6 seems to be the only launch that fitst the criteria (Falcon 9 from Canaveral in December).

Current entry on US NSF Schedule:
Q4 - PSN-6 (Pasifik Satelit Nusantara 6), U.S. government satellite - Falcon 9 - Canaveral SLC-40

PSN-VI Possibilities:
Q4 - PSN-6 (Pasifik Satelit Nusantara 6), U.S. government satellite, SpaceIL Moon Lander - Falcon 9 - Canaveral SLC-40
Q4 - PSN-6 (Pasifik Satelit Nusantara 6), U.S. government satellite, SpaceIL Moon Lander - Falcon 9 - Canaveral SLC-40
Q4 - PSN-6 (Pasifik Satelit Nusantara 6), U.S. government satellite, SpaceIL Moon Lander - Falcon 9 - Canaveral SLC-40
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 07/10/2018 11:07 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

PSN-6 seems to be the only launch that fitst the criteria (Falcon 9 from Canaveral in December).

Current entry on US NSF Schedule:
Q4 - PSN-6 (Pasifik Satelit Nusantara 6), U.S. government satellite - Falcon 9 - Canaveral SLC-40

PSN-VI Possibilities:
Q4 - PSN-6 (Pasifik Satelit Nusantara 6), U.S. government satellite, SpaceIL Moon Lander - Falcon 9 - Canaveral SLC-40
Q4 - PSN-6 (Pasifik Satelit Nusantara 6), U.S. government satellite, SpaceIL Moon Lander - Falcon 9 - Canaveral SLC-40
Q4 - PSN-6 (Pasifik Satelit Nusantara 6), U.S. government satellite, SpaceIL Moon Lander - Falcon 9 - Canaveral SLC-40

The reports on the government secondary payload said it would be carried to orbit by PSN VI, so I don't think option 3 is likely.  If it does end up being with PSN VI then I'd guess option 2 is most likely.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: docmordrid on 07/11/2018 03:22 am
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

SpaceIL @TeamSpaceIL
We have a launch and landing dates! December 2018- Launch, February 13 2019- First Israeli spacecraft lands on the moon! SpaceIL's moon mission is officially underway #SpaceIL https://t.co/f5V2E0Ue2d (http://"https://t.co/f5V2E0Ue2d")

https://twitter.com/TeamSpaceIL/status/1016633238008270850?s=19 (http://"https://twitter.com/TeamSpaceIL/status/1016633238008270850?s=19")
|
Yoav Landsman @MasaCritit
Oh, I misunderstood you earlier. Our launcher is a Falcon 9, not a Falcon Heavy.

https://twitter.com/MasaCritit/status/946736382357237760?s=19
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Star One on 07/11/2018 06:39 am
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

This was quite widely reported on the main BBC news over here in the UK, which is somewhat unusual for this kind of story these days.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-44777305
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/11/2018 06:39 am
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

Watch video. Launches to 500km SSO from Vandenburg, probably as secondary payload.

Do you mean this video? The one that shows Sparrow deploying from the base of the second stage! I wouldn't trust anything that video shows. By the way, best of luck to SpaceIL on the landing attempt, but they'll need India to fail with Chandrayaan 2 this October in order to be fourth, otherwise Israel will end up fifth if India succeeds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmVBF8f3ZD4
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: TrevorMonty on 07/11/2018 10:13 am
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

Watch video. Launches to 500km SSO from Vandenburg, probably as secondary payload.

At 585Kg it could do future launches on new small LVs eg Firefly and Relativity. To big for Launcherone.

With landed mass about 185kg (burns over 400kg fuel) should be able to deliver reasonable size payload.

Which video?

400/585 is not a high enough prop mass fraction to get to the lunar surface from SSO. It would need to be sent considerably higher by the LV, at least to GTO apogee.
Read article and watch video.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-44777305

As we now know its going from florida as secondary on F9.

Seems like lander is flexible on depart orbits, SSO or GTO.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: envy887 on 07/11/2018 02:57 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

Watch video. Launches to 500km SSO from Vandenburg, probably as secondary payload.

At 585Kg it could do future launches on new small LVs eg Firefly and Relativity. To big for Launcherone.

With landed mass about 185kg (burns over 400kg fuel) should be able to deliver reasonable size payload.

Which video?

400/585 is not a high enough prop mass fraction to get to the lunar surface from SSO. It would need to be sent considerably higher by the LV, at least to GTO apogee.
Read article and watch video.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-44777305

As we now know its going from florida as secondary on F9.

Seems like lander is flexible on depart orbits, SSO or GTO.

Direct video link (from 2015) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRJ5HsgHhxQ

However, the prop mass fraction give is not enough. With storable props, 400 kg will only give ~3,600 m/s and it needs about 6,000 m/s from SSO. The difference is almost exactly a GTO insertion, about 2,500 m/s.

Either it needs more propellant, or the upper stage to restart and put it in higher orbit. The 40,000 km apogee first phasing orbit described in the video would be perfect.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: koraldon on 07/11/2018 03:46 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5307792,00.html
Launch in December, landing on February 13th. Overall program cost - 95million dollars, weight at launch 600kg
Exciting :)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: russianhalo117 on 07/11/2018 04:33 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

Watch video. Launches to 500km SSO from Vandenburg, probably as secondary payload.

At 585Kg it could do future launches on new small LVs eg Firefly and Relativity. To big for Launcherone.

With landed mass about 185kg (burns over 400kg fuel) should be able to deliver reasonable size payload.

Which video?

400/585 is not a high enough prop mass fraction to get to the lunar surface from SSO. It would need to be sent considerably higher by the LV, at least to GTO apogee.
Read article and watch video.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-44777305

As we now know its going from florida as secondary on F9.

Seems like lander is flexible on depart orbits, SSO or GTO.

Direct video link (from 2015) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRJ5HsgHhxQ

However, the prop mass fraction give is not enough. With storable props, 400 kg will only give ~3,600 m/s and it needs about 6,000 m/s from SSO. The difference is almost exactly a GTO insertion, about 2,500 m/s.

Either it needs more propellant, or the upper stage to restart and put it in higher orbit. The 40,000 km apogee first phasing orbit described in the video would be perfect.
The updated information is an initial 60,000km elliptical HEO at the time of separation.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: russianhalo117 on 07/11/2018 04:37 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

Watch video. Launches to 500km SSO from Vandenburg, probably as secondary payload.

Do you mean this video? The one that shows Sparrow deploying from the base of the second stage! I wouldn't trust anything that video shows. By the way, best of luck to SpaceIL on the landing attempt, but they'll need India to fail with Chandrayan 2 this October in order to be fourth, otherwise Israel will end up fifth if India succeeds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmVBF8f3ZD4
AFAIK Chandrayan 2 lander will not make an immediate landing after arriving.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: koraldon on 07/11/2018 04:55 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

I found one presentation on the spacecraft at IAC 2018, maybe there are more - https://iafastro.directory/iac/paper/id/47938/summary/
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Comga on 07/11/2018 07:56 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

Watch video. Launches to 500km SSO from Vandenburg, probably as secondary payload.

Do you mean this video? The one that shows Sparrow deploying from the base of the second stage! I wouldn't trust anything that video shows. By the way, best of luck to SpaceIL on the landing attempt, but they'll need India to fail with Chandrayan 2 this October in order to be fourth, otherwise Israel will end up fifth if India succeeds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmVBF8f3ZD4
While there are some questionable aspects of the video, like the s/c coming out of a hollow second stage, or the fins on the rocket in the early footage, there are kernels that must have basis in facts, however badly interpreted they are by those making the video.

One is a reference to a brief window for landing.
The very specific landing date of February 13, 2019 corresponds to the moment of the first quarter moon, which occurs at 12:26 AM Tel Aviv time on that day.
That would seem to be a good time to land, sunlight and thermal and all, but it's not clear why precision is needed.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Phil Stooke on 07/11/2018 09:43 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

If you want to last as long as possible during the lunar day (meaning 14 Earth days) you want to land as soon as is feasible after sunrise.   For a given landing site there will be just a day or two in each month when the illumination is right for a landing.  The moment of sunrise is probably not ideal, more likely they would be planning to land 10 or 20 hours after sunrise.  Map that to a specific site and you have your need for precision (not a few seconds, obviously, I think that's just for dramatic effect).

The sites being considered as of 18 months ago were described here:

https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2017/pdf/1914.pdf (https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2017/pdf/1914.pdf)

(LPSC abstract)

Considering lighting, this might suggest the Wohler site for that date.  Note that the Reiner Gamma site from the 2015 video shown above does not meet their thermal requirements now.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Comga on 07/12/2018 04:44 am
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

If you want to last as long as possible during the lunar day (meaning 14 Earth days) you want to land as soon as is feasible after sunrise.   For a given landing site there will be just a day or two in each month when the illumination is right for a landing.  The moment of sunrise is probably not ideal, more likely they would be planning to land 10 or 20 hours after sunrise.  Map that to a specific site and you have your need for precision (not a few seconds, obviously, I think that's just for dramatic effect).

The sites being considered as of 18 months ago were described here:

https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2017/pdf/1914.pdf (https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2017/pdf/1914.pdf)

(LPSC abstract)

Considering lighting, this might suggest the Wohler site for that date.  Note that the Reiner Gamma site from the 2015 video shown above does not meet their thermal requirements now.

That seems right.
At first quarter the solar elevation at Wohler should be around 45 degrees, while at Brezelius, one of the other candidate landing zones, it would only be ~25 degrees.
Thanks for the paper.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/12/2018 05:41 am
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

From the summary, they are not using a throttleable engine. Presumably, they will be pulsing the engines to control the thrust level. They are using COPVs, but didn't state where. Probably for the helium pressurisation tanks.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: mn on 07/12/2018 06:15 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

SpaceIL posted a bunch of little updates today

http://www.spaceil.com/category/news/ (http://www.spaceil.com/category/news/)

(I didn't notice anything specifically new that we didn't already know)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Phil Stooke on 07/12/2018 08:09 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

In earlier presentations the lander was called Sparrow.  I can't find any current statements regarding the name.  Does anyone know if that name is still being used?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Olaf on 07/14/2018 12:48 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

https://spacenews.com/bridenstine-visits-israel-on-first-foreign-trip/
Quote
Bridenstine also met with SpaceIL, the former Google Lunar X Prize team that is continuing to develop its lander even though the prize purse expired in March. SpaceIL announced July 10 that it is planning to launch its lunar lander as a secondary payload on a SpaceX Falcon 9 in December, deploying into a supersynchronous transfer orbit that it will gradually raise until it can maneuver into lunar orbit. SpaceIL said their planned landing date is Feb. 13, 2019.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: scr00chy on 07/14/2018 01:05 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

How could it launch to SSO from Canaveral?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Alexphysics on 07/14/2018 01:12 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

A Supersynchronous Transfer Orbit (STO) is not the same as a Sun-Synchronous Orbit (SSO). A STO is a type of GTO where the apogee goes beyond the GEO altitude.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: scr00chy on 07/14/2018 01:28 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

A Supersynchronous Transfer Orbit (STO) is not the same as a Sun-Synchronous Orbit (SSO). A STO is a type of GTO where the apogee goes beyond the GEO altitude.
Oh, sorry, misread the original post. Thanks. :)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: rpapo on 07/14/2018 02:02 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

This is a good example of why certain people (like Musk) hate acronyms.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 07/14/2018 02:07 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

This is a good example of why certain people (like Musk) hate acronyms.

The part he misread wasn't an acronym.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Alexphysics on 07/14/2018 02:27 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

Sometimes is better to say SSO than "Sun-Synchronous Orbit" all the time, that's why certain acronyms are useful, but this is not relevant to this mission
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: envy887 on 07/14/2018 02:59 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

It doesn't help that SpaceIL themselves have stated at various times that they would be flying to sun-sync and at other times that they were going to super-sync. The latter appears to be the current plan.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 07/14/2018 03:09 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

It doesn't help that SpaceIL themselves have stated at various times that they would be flying to sun-sync and at other times that they were going to super-sync. The latter appears to be the current plan.

SpaceIL was never going to SSO, even when other payloads on their scheduled flight were going there.  There would have been another engine burn.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: TrevorMonty on 07/14/2018 06:16 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

It doesn't help that SpaceIL themselves have stated at various times that they would be flying to sun-sync and at other times that they were going to super-sync. The latter appears to be the current plan.
Their video that was included in article on this mission  had them going to 500km Sun Sync from Vandenburg. We know for this mission they aren't launching from Vandenburg.

The journalist didn't do their homework, should've watch video first before including it. Thats assuming they understood differences between SSO and GTO.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: russianhalo117 on 07/15/2018 04:15 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

It doesn't help that SpaceIL themselves have stated at various times that they would be flying to sun-sync and at other times that they were going to super-sync. The latter appears to be the current plan.
Their video that was included in article on this mission  had them going to 500km Sun Sync from Vandenburg. We know for this mission they aren't launching from Vandenburg.

The journalist didn't do their homework, should've watch video first before including it. Thats assuming they understood differences between SSO and GTO.
Correct they are flying a different launch profile and from a different pad (SLC-40). The video left several details out of the old launch profile.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: russianhalo117 on 07/15/2018 04:50 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

PSN-6 seems to be the only launch that fitst the criteria (Falcon 9 from Canaveral in December).

Current entry on US NSF Schedule:
Q4 - PSN-6 (Pasifik Satelit Nusantara 6), U.S. government satellite - Falcon 9 - Canaveral SLC-40

PSN-VI Possibilities:
Q4 - PSN-6 (Pasifik Satelit Nusantara 6), U.S. government satellite, SpaceIL Moon Lander - Falcon 9 - Canaveral SLC-40
Q4 - PSN-6 (Pasifik Satelit Nusantara 6), U.S. government satellite, SpaceIL Moon Lander - Falcon 9 - Canaveral SLC-40
Q4 - PSN-6 (Pasifik Satelit Nusantara 6), U.S. government satellite, SpaceIL Moon Lander - Falcon 9 - Canaveral SLC-40

The reports on the government secondary payload said it would be carried to orbit by PSN VI, so I don't think option 3 is likely.  If it does end up being with PSN VI then I'd guess option 2 is most likely.
Per a friend the below listed Israeli Payload has been cited in Israel as the most likely potential communications payload. It is possible as it is listed NET late December 2018/very early 2019 on Israeli forums. Per our NSF US Launch schedule it is currently listed as:
2019:
Early - Amos 17 - Falcon 9 - Canaveral SLC-40 (or Q2)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: scr00chy on 07/15/2018 05:21 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

PSN-6 seems to be the only launch that fitst the criteria (Falcon 9 from Canaveral in December).

Current entry on US NSF Schedule:
Q4 - PSN-6 (Pasifik Satelit Nusantara 6), U.S. government satellite - Falcon 9 - Canaveral SLC-40

PSN-VI Possibilities:
Q4 - PSN-6 (Pasifik Satelit Nusantara 6), U.S. government satellite, SpaceIL Moon Lander - Falcon 9 - Canaveral SLC-40
Q4 - PSN-6 (Pasifik Satelit Nusantara 6), U.S. government satellite, SpaceIL Moon Lander - Falcon 9 - Canaveral SLC-40
Q4 - PSN-6 (Pasifik Satelit Nusantara 6), U.S. government satellite, SpaceIL Moon Lander - Falcon 9 - Canaveral SLC-40

The reports on the government secondary payload said it would be carried to orbit by PSN VI, so I don't think option 3 is likely.  If it does end up being with PSN VI then I'd guess option 2 is most likely.
Per a friend the below listed Israeli Payload has been cited in Israel as the most likely potential communications payload. It is possible as it is listed NET late December 2018/very early 2019 on Israeli forums. Per our NSF US Launch schedule it is currently listed as:
2019:
Early - Amos 17 - Falcon 9 - Canaveral SLC-40 (or Q2)

Seems unlikely to me. Amos-17 has been scheduled for Q2 2019 from the start (the initial 2017 announcement stated this planned date).
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: crandles57 on 07/17/2018 01:32 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

Seems unlikely to me. Amos-17 has been scheduled for Q2 2019 from the start (the initial 2017 announcement stated this planned date).

http://amos-spacecom.com/press/spacecoms-amos-17-satellite-successfully-completes-critical-design-review-cdr/

is the only 2017 press release I have found and that says early 2019 rather than Q2.

http://amos-spacecom.com/satellite/amos-17/
does say Q2 but not idea if or when this was changed.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: scr00chy on 07/17/2018 01:49 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

See here (https://twitter.com/Cakeofdestiny/status/920677726129934336)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: OccasionalTraveller on 07/17/2018 04:19 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

The AMOS-17 thread (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=44162.msg1746554#msg1746554) has press release quotes. They initially just state 2019, but the Critical Design Review completion press release says Early 2019. The most recent press release, from March, says Q2.

It's unlikely that this will move to the left. A two-year lead time seems actually quite fast for satellite production. They do tend to slip. Boeing have never completed a 702 satellite in under two years - their fastest was SES 15 (on the 702SP platform) in 27 months from order to launch.

A further piece of data is that Gunter's Space Page cites a mass of 5500kg for AMOS-17 (http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/amos-17.htm). That would actually make it one of the lightest satellites built on the BSS-702MP platform. Most have been over 6 metric tonnes, and the only one so far to fly on Falcon 9 - Intelsat 35e - expended the booster.

It may be that the figure given by Gunter is simply the maximum listed payload for reusable F9 (or at least the maximum payload for $62m, which is widely assumed to be the maximum reusable payload to GTO-1800). This launch is free due to the AMOS-6 accident, but I can't see them replacing a reusable F9 launch with an expendable or a Heavy. AMOS-6 was supposedly 5250kg, Boeing list the 702MP as massing 5800 to 6100kg at launch.

I'm not quite sure where he's getting BSS-702MP from - Boeing simply say '702' without specifying the variant. The listed power of 8.5kW is too high for the SP variant but lower than HP. One of the releases also says chemical propulsion will be used, and SP only offers all-electric propulsion, so it probably is the MP version, by process of deduction.

The standard lifetime offered is 15 years. The CDR press release indicates an expected life of 19 years. Extra station-keeping fuel would only add to the launch mass.

SpaceX have launched heavier payloads and still landed the booster, but only to sub-synchronous orbits (apogee lower than geosynchronous altitude, greater than 1800 m/s of Delta-V required to circularise at geosynchronous and to zero the inclination). In this situation, the satellite has to carry a higher proportion of fuel. That doesn't square with SpaceIL's need to be deployed into a super-synchronous orbit - if the second stage can't make it to the usual GTO altitude for the primary payload, it won't have fuel to raise the apogee for a secondary payload.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Phil Stooke on 07/19/2018 04:33 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

"By the way, best of luck to SpaceIL on the landing attempt, but they'll need India to fail with Chandrayan 2 this October in order to be fourth, otherwise Israel will end up fifth if India succeeds."

The Chandrayaan 2 thread right now suggests that Chandrayaan 2 might be delayed past the end of this year, so fourth might still be correct without a failed C2 landing.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Comga on 07/19/2018 04:43 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

See here (https://twitter.com/Cakeofdestiny/status/920677726129934336)

For those who don't or can't look thru to that Twitter link it is verifying that the launch of Amos 17 is now scheduled for a three month window in Q2 2019, so well after the announced launch of SpaceIL's moon lander.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 07/31/2018 07:24 pm
http://ekbis.harianjogja.com/read/2018/07/04/502/926064/satelit-psn-6-siap-meluncur-jadi-solusi-internet-cepat
Quote
04 Juli 2018 19:30 WIB

Harianjogja.com, JAKARTA—Satelit PSN 6 milik PT Pasifik Satelit Nusantara siap meluncur pada Desember 2018.
Google translate:
Quote
04 July 2018 19:30 WIB

Harianjogja.com, JAKARTA - Nusantara's PSN 6 Satellite is ready to launch in December 2018.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: crandles57 on 07/31/2018 11:28 pm
Dec 2018 would seem to match with SpaceIL Sparrow moon hopper planned launch date. Makes this combination likely ?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: crandles57 on 07/31/2018 11:30 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

http://ekbis.harianjogja.com/read/2018/07/04/502/926064/satelit-psn-6-siap-meluncur-jadi-solusi-internet-cepat
Quote
04 Juli 2018 19:30 WIB

Harianjogja.com, JAKARTA—Satelit PSN 6 milik PT Pasifik Satelit Nusantara siap meluncur pada Desember 2018.
Google translate:
Quote
04 July 2018 19:30 WIB

Harianjogja.com, JAKARTA - Nusantara's PSN 6 Satellite is ready to launch in December 2018.

If Dec 2018 matches, makes that (even more) favourite I would think.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 08/01/2018 01:33 am
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

I'd love to see clear information on the payload stack and orbit for this.  If it's on PSN-6 then I have doubts about whether it's going to 60k apogee, maybe that is old information.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: russianhalo117 on 08/01/2018 02:29 am
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

I'd love to see clear information on the payload stack and orbit for this.  If it's on PSN-6 then I have doubts about whether it's going to 60k apogee, maybe that is old information.

Maybe we request an L2 clarification with the SpaceX and possibly IAI (building it and AFAIU contracted the rideshare launch) folks to first verify the press didn't get there SpaceX launchers mixed up and second to verify whom it's launching with and its launch profile. It's a lot to ask for but it might get us closer to what we are seeking.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Phil Stooke on 08/06/2018 02:06 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

Jeff Foust
‏ @jeff_foust
2 hours ago  [6 August]

Spaceflight is preparing for a dedicated Falcon 9 launch this fall with 71 smallsats on board from a wide range of customers. “I think it’s going to change what people think is possible with rideshare,” says the company’s president.

Is this the SpaceIL launch?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Alexphysics on 08/06/2018 02:21 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

No, it's the SSO-A launch from Vandenberg.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: scr00chy on 08/06/2018 02:21 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]


Jeff Foust
‏ @jeff_foust
2 hours ago  [6 August]

Spaceflight is preparing for a dedicated Falcon 9 launch this fall with 71 smallsats on board from a wide range of customers. “I think it’s going to change what people think is possible with rideshare,” says the company’s president.

Is this the SpaceIL launch?

No, the SpaceIL press release said it would be launching from Florida. SSO-A launches from California.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Olaf on 09/11/2018 03:22 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

https://www.spaceflightindustries.com/2018/09/11/spaceflight-offers-rideshare-launches-to-geosynchronous-transfer-orbit/
Quote
The first mission will launch from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station aboard a SpaceX Falcon 9 which was procured by SSL, a Maxar Technologies company. It will represent the two companies’ first combined launch and Spaceflight’s first mission beyond Lower Earth Orbit (LEO).
Quote
The manifest for this Falcon 9 GTO rideshare mission is completely full. It features several undisclosed payloads along with an unmanned lunar spacecraft from SpaceIL, an Israeli nonprofit organization that was competing in the Google Lunar XPrize to land a spacecraft on the Moon. The first rideshare satellites will separate in GTO and then the SSL host spacecraft will continue on to Geostationary Orbit (GEO) where the remaining rideshare satellites will be separated.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: russianhalo117 on 09/11/2018 04:34 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

https://www.spaceflightindustries.com/2018/09/11/spaceflight-offers-rideshare-launches-to-geosynchronous-transfer-orbit/
Quote
The first mission will launch from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station aboard a SpaceX Falcon 9 which was procured by SSL, a Maxar Technologies company. It will represent the two companies’ first combined launch and Spaceflight’s first mission beyond Lower Earth Orbit (LEO).
Quote
The manifest for this Falcon 9 GTO rideshare mission is completely full. It features several undisclosed payloads along with an unmanned lunar spacecraft from SpaceIL, an Israeli nonprofit organization that was competing in the Google Lunar XPrize to land a spacecraft on the Moon. The first rideshare satellites will separate in GTO and then the SSL host spacecraft will continue on to Geostationary Orbit (GEO) where the remaining rideshare satellites will be separated.
So this is SI's which is this flight per the schedule:
2019:
NET Q1 - Spaceflight GTO - Falcon 9 - Canaveral SLC-40
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 09/11/2018 04:42 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

This has to be PSN-6.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: russianhalo117 on 09/11/2018 04:44 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

This has to be PSN-6.
Its the next publicly known SSL spacecraft.

so based on statements:
PSN-6 (Pasifik Satelit Nusantara 6) a SpaceIL Moon Lander are stacked together and will be separated last. Some Spaceflight payloads separate first along with some undisclosed payloads which may or may not include a U.S. government satellite. This might require expendable mode (I'll leave that for discussion later). It sounds like some LEO or Sub-GEO Payloads and some GEO Payloads and the BEO payload.

That would look something like this:

2018
December - PSN-6 (Pasifik Satelit Nusantara 6), SpaceIL Moon Lander, Spaceflight GTO: multiple undisclosed rideshare payloads, U.S. government satellite(?) - Falcon 9 - Canaveral SLC-40 (or January 2019)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: scr00chy on 09/11/2018 05:37 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

2018
December - PSN-6 (Pasifik Satelit Nusantara 6), SpaceIL Moon Lander, Spaceflight GTO: multiple undisclosed rideshare payloads, U.S. government satellite(?) - Falcon 9 - Canaveral SLC-40 (or January 2019)

Where did you get January 2019 from?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: russianhalo117 on 09/11/2018 06:40 pm
2018
December - PSN-6 (Pasifik Satelit Nusantara 6), SpaceIL Moon Lander, Spaceflight GTO: multiple undisclosed rideshare payloads, U.S. government satellite(?) - Falcon 9 - Canaveral SLC-40 (or January 2019)

Where did you get January 2019 from?
PSN-6 (Pasifik Satelit Nusantara 6), SpaceIL Moon Lander, Spaceflight GTO all overlap in january in terms of previously announced target windows. Based on Multiple pressers and availability of payloads you get the December to January timeframe as the most likely target month.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: crandles57 on 09/11/2018 09:37 pm
[edit/gongora: originally posted in the SpaceIL temporary thread before we knew what launch it was on]

2018
December - PSN-6 (Pasifik Satelit Nusantara 6), SpaceIL Moon Lander, Spaceflight GTO: multiple undisclosed rideshare payloads, U.S. government satellite(?) - Falcon 9 - Canaveral SLC-40 (or January 2019)

Where did you get January 2019 from?

Last I have seen are
http://ekbis.harianjogja.com/read/2018/07/04/502/926064/satelit-psn-6-siap-meluncur-jadi-solusi-internet-cepat
4th July article saying December and
https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-first-israeli-spacecraft-set-for-trip-to-the-moon/ 11 July article saying December

Salo seems to have changed to Early 2019 for PSN-6 on 31 July 2018 but I don't see the ref for it unless hidden behing paywall in
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/insider-content.html but that seems about 'Another potential #Falcon Heavy passenger'
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: crandles57 on 09/12/2018 01:44 pm
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-falcon-9-rideshare-commercial-lunar-lander-2019/

Quote
Expected to occur as soon as early 2019, Spaceflight has arranged the addition of “several undisclosed payloads” but was able to confirm that Israel-based company SpaceIL’s lunar lander spacecraft – deemed Sparrow – will be onboard Falcon 9 come launch,
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: vaporcobra on 09/12/2018 08:02 pm
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-falcon-9-rideshare-commercial-lunar-lander-2019/

Quote
Expected to occur as soon as early 2019, Spaceflight has arranged the addition of “several undisclosed payloads” but was able to confirm that Israel-based company SpaceIL’s lunar lander spacecraft – deemed Sparrow – will be onboard Falcon 9 come launch,

Will update the article later but I have some official confirmation from Spaceflight. Sparrow (NET "early Q1 2019") is in fact a part of SI's "GTO-1" mission, and GTO-1 will be targeting a supersynch GTO, described on their online schedule as 185 x 60,000km 27°.

I suppose it's still possible that PSN-6 is the host satellite and that SSL PODS is the GEO rideshare mechanism, but that's a solid 6000+ kg. I doubt even Falcon 9 Block 5 can pull that off in a reusable config, the Telstar Vantage duo only managed apogees closer to 18,000km.    
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: russianhalo117 on 09/12/2018 08:13 pm
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-falcon-9-rideshare-commercial-lunar-lander-2019/

Quote
Expected to occur as soon as early 2019, Spaceflight has arranged the addition of “several undisclosed payloads” but was able to confirm that Israel-based company SpaceIL’s lunar lander spacecraft – deemed Sparrow – will be onboard Falcon 9 come launch,

Will update the article later but I have some official confirmation from Spaceflight. Sparrow (NET "early Q1 2019") is in fact a part of SI's "GTO-1" mission, and GTO-1 will be targeting a supersynch GTO, described on their online schedule as 185 x 60,000km 27°.

I suppose it's still possible that PSN-6 is the host satellite and that SSL PODS is the GEO rideshare mechanism, but that's a solid 6000+ kg. I doubt even Falcon 9 Block 5 can pull that off in a reusable config, the Telstar Vantage duo only managed apogees closer to 18,000km.    
Per Skyrocket's Facebook Message Sparrow is not an official name for the lander. Per another person "The lander will receive its official name prior to send off to the Cape." It might be that is has both English and Hebrew names.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Michael Baylor on 09/12/2018 08:23 pm
Will update the article later but I have some official confirmation from Spaceflight. Sparrow (NET "early Q1 2019") is in fact a part of SI's "GTO-1" mission, and GTO-1 will be targeting a supersynch GTO, described on their online schedule as 185 x 60,000km 27°.

I suppose it's still possible that PSN-6 is the host satellite and that SSL PODS is the GEO rideshare mechanism, but that's a solid 6000+ kg. I doubt even Falcon 9 Block 5 can pull that off in a reusable config, the Telstar Vantage duo only managed apogees closer to 18,000km.
There's a chance that PSN VI is lighter than we expected but still probably an expendable mission.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: vaporcobra on 09/18/2018 11:18 am
Will update the article later but I have some official confirmation from Spaceflight. Sparrow (NET "early Q1 2019") is in fact a part of SI's "GTO-1" mission, and GTO-1 will be targeting a supersynch GTO, described on their online schedule as 185 x 60,000km 27°.

I suppose it's still possible that PSN-6 is the host satellite and that SSL PODS is the GEO rideshare mechanism, but that's a solid 6000+ kg. I doubt even Falcon 9 Block 5 can pull that off in a reusable config, the Telstar Vantage duo only managed apogees closer to 18,000km.
There's a chance that PSN VI is lighter than we expected but still probably an expendable mission.

Still planning on checking with SSL when I find some time this week 🤪
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: mn on 10/04/2018 03:25 pm
NASA, Israel Space Agency Sign Agreement for Commercial Lunar Cooperation

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-israel-space-agency-sign-agreement-for-commercial-lunar-cooperation (https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-israel-space-agency-sign-agreement-for-commercial-lunar-cooperation)

Quote
...
NASA will contribute a laser retroreflector array to aid with ground tracking and Deep Space Network support to aid in mission communication. ISA and SpaceIL will share data with NASA from the SpaceIL lunar magnetometer installed aboard the spacecraft. The instrument, which was developed in collaboration with the Weizmann Institute of Science, will measure the magnetic field on and above the landing site. The data will be made publicly available through NASA’s Planetary Data System.  In addition, NASA’s Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter will attempt to take scientific measurements of the SpaceIL lander as it lands on the Moon.
...
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Chris Bergin on 10/10/2018 10:49 pm
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/10/israels-first-moon-launch-falcon-delayed-weeks/ - by Thomas Burghardt

He's been working on this for a while, talking to SpaceIL and waiting for this latest update that came this evening.

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1050156046407348224

Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Star One on 11/08/2018 10:20 pm
Here's (almost) everything you need to know about Israel's Moon lander (http://www.planetary.org/blogs/jason-davis/spaceil-lander-feature.html)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: mn on 11/23/2018 02:39 pm
Another tidbit of news on SpaceIL, didn't notice any new info, just another $5 million investment/donation.

SYLVAN ADAMS JOINS SPACEIL PROJECT TO LAND FIRST ISRAELI SPACECRAFT ON THE MOON (http://www.spaceil.com/news/%D7%A1%D7%99%D7%9C%D7%91%D7%9F-%D7%90%D7%93%D7%9E%D7%A1-%D7%90%D7%99%D7%A9-%D7%94%D7%A2%D7%A1%D7%A7%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%95%D7%94%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%9C%D7%A0%D7%AA%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%A4-%D7%A9%D7%A2%D7%95%D7%9E/)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: scr00chy on 12/07/2018 12:00 pm
Looks like this is now NET February:

Quote
After [DM-1], the next Falcon launch [from Florida] is slated for February TBD.
http://www.launchphotography.com/Delta_4_Atlas_5_Falcon_9_Launch_Viewing.html
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 12/07/2018 12:57 pm
PSN VI satellite will launch February 13, 2019 (https://www.indotelko.com/kanal?c=rm&it=satelit-psn-vi-13-februari)
Quote
"The plan will be launched on February 13, 2019 using SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket," said Director of Technology PT Pasifik Satelit Nusantara (PSN) Dani Indra Widjanarko, to IndoTelko via text message yesterday.

Not sure if that is Feb. 13 in Indonesia or Florida.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Alexphysics on 12/07/2018 01:43 pm
Looks like this is now NET February:

Quote
After [DM-1], the next Falcon launch [from Florida] is slated for February TBD.
http://www.launchphotography.com/Delta_4_Atlas_5_Falcon_9_Launch_Viewing.html

That also means Arabsat is NET February. Kinda expected given the timeline for testing all three boosters and integrating them for launch at a pad that will have the much important activity of the DM-1 mission.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: dannov on 12/12/2018 11:02 pm
The name of satellite will be rebranded as Nusantara Satu. Estimated launch date 13th Feb 19 at 9.15 PM Jakarta time. Count down from their website: psn.co.id/ctn1
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Alexphysics on 12/12/2018 11:13 pm
The name of satellite will be rebranded as Nusantara Satu. Estimated launch date 13th Feb 19 at 9.15 PM Jakarta time. Count down from their website: psn.co.id/ctn1

So that would be 9:15 AM local time (14:15 UTC) if I did the math right for the timezone conversion.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: deruch on 12/13/2018 12:20 am
The name of satellite will be rebranded as Nusantara Satu. Estimated launch date 13th Feb 19 at 9.15 PM Jakarta time. Count down from their website: psn.co.id/ctn1

Welcome to the forum!
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Phil Stooke on 12/13/2018 07:08 am
And speaking of names, SpaceIL has just tweeted the name of their lunar lander, chosen after a competition.  The lander was referred to as Sparrow since the team joined GLXP.  Now it has a new name, Beresheet, meaning 'In the beginning' or 'Genesis'.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: russianhalo117 on 12/14/2018 12:46 am
And speaking of names, SpaceIL has just tweeted the name of their lunar lander, chosen after a competition.  The lander was referred to as Sparrow since the team joined GLXP.  Now it has a new name, Beresheet, meaning 'In the beginning' or 'Genesis'.
To be completely correct:
Hebrew: בראשית (transliteration: Beresheet)
English: Genesis
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Comga on 12/14/2018 01:08 am
And speaking of names, SpaceIL has just tweeted the name of their lunar lander, chosen after a competition.  The lander was referred to as Sparrow since the team joined GLXP.  Now it has a new name, Beresheet, meaning 'In the beginning' or 'Genesis'.

Actually, it’s not or Genesis as much as from Genesis, the first of the “five Books of Moses”, the Jewish Torah.
In fact, it is THE very first word.
and a great new name.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Phil Stooke on 12/14/2018 05:19 am
Beresheet is not only the first word of the first book of the Torah, it is the name of the first book, because those first five books take their names from their first word or words.  Genesis is the Greek word meaning the same thing.  Anyhoo, basically we are all correct, and yes, this is a very appropriate name for a first lunar mission from Israel, particularly since there is now some talk of further missions, which SpaceIL had originally not planned.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 12/14/2018 01:57 pm
Thanks, Phil, RH117, and Comga for the informative posts!
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: SciNews on 12/17/2018 01:34 pm
Reuters: Israeli spacecraft gets final element before 2019 moon launch
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-space-moon/israeli-spacecraft-gets-final-element-before-2019-moon-launch-idUSKBN1OG1KI
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Phil Stooke on 12/18/2018 08:41 pm
I have posted a map of the landing area here:


http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=8407&pid=242642&st=0&#entry242642 (http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=8407&pid=242642&st=0&#entry242642)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: scr00chy on 12/18/2018 11:42 pm
Do we know what other payloads apart from the SpaceIL lander are flying on this under the GTO-1/Spaceflight umbrella?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: russianhalo117 on 12/18/2018 11:48 pm
Do we know what other payloads apart from the SpaceIL lander are flying on this under the GTO-1/Spaceflight umbrella?
Spaceflight payloads have yet to be disclosed although some undisclosed US Govt payloads are expected to fly in the same timeframe.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: shooter6947 on 12/19/2018 05:39 am
Looks like the Engineer's preferred landing site:  flattest parking lot on the Moon...
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Phil Stooke on 12/20/2018 01:51 am
If you saved that landing site map, I just updated it and corrected a mistake.

The landing site is on a magnetic anomaly.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/20/2018 05:04 pm
SSL Release:

An SSL-built satellite that will provide broadband in Indonesia just arrived at the SpaceX launch base in Cape Canaveral. We wrote this blog about the satellite, Nusantara Satu, in anticipation of the upcoming launch.

Innovative Satellite to Improve Broadband Connectivity in Indonesia Arrives at the Cape for Launch

Written By: Wendy Lewis, Sr. Director of Communications, SSL, a Maxar Technologies Company

After more than a week on the road, the innovative communications satellite we built for Indonesian satellite operator, PT Pasifik Satelit Nusantara (PSN) has arrived safely at the SpaceX launch base in Cape Canaveral, Florida.

Scheduled for launch early next year, Nusantara Satu, previously called PSN VI, will provide voice, data and video distribution service throughout South East Asia, and it includes Indonesia’s first High Throughput Satellite (HTS) payload. SSL is a leader in HTS technology and built more broadband capacity on orbit today than any other satellite manufacturer.

In addition to this being a high-performance, multi-mission satellite, it features a rideshare service and our next-generation solar electric propulsion system. SSL collaborated with rideshare provider Spaceflight to aggregate additional payloads that will accompany Nusantara Satu to orbit.

I talked to our Group President, Dario Zamarian and he called out these innovations:

SSL and PSN share a commitment to developing spacecraft that provide robust service for mission-critical applications. Nusantara Satu benefits from multiple SSL innovations including our next-generation electric propulsion system. SSL was able to help reduce the cost of launch for our customer by enabling the satellite to perform orbit raising for an additional payload.

As an important part of the infrastructure that improves broadband connectivity in Indonesia, Nusantara Satu will help build a better world. It acts as a vital link for remote islands and villages to access emergency services, educational opportunities, and other benefits of internet connectivity. In addition to providing broadband service, the satellite’s C-band and Ku-band transponders will be used for voice and data communications and video distribution throughout the Indonesian archipelago.

SSL procured the SpaceX Falcon 9 launch on behalf of PSN and worked together with Spaceflight and SpaceX to enable a unique mission that puts one payload into a trajectory toward the moon prior to the satellite bringing an additional payload to its orbit above the geostationary arc. To reduce the cost of launch for PSN, the satellite was designed for a shared launch.

PSN is the first private satellite telecommunications company in Indonesia and a leading Asian provider of a full range of satellite-based telecommunication services.

The CEO of PSN, Adi Rahman Adiwoso commented on the satellite and working with SSL. He said:

Nusantara Satu satellite is a very important infrastructure for Indonesia. As the first Indonesian High Throughput Satellite, it is another monumental step for PSN to realize its dream and carry on its commitment to provide broadband services across the vast archipelago of Indonesia. Therefore, PSN has selected SSL, a Maxar Technologies company, since both companies share an aligned goal of bringing far-reaching technology to improve lives and create new opportunities for economic growth in remote regions.

Now that the satellite is at launch base, we are looking forward to seeing it lift off soon!
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 12/22/2018 12:59 am
SSL has a few commercial GEO sats launching in 2019, but I'm guessing there's a good chance this is for PSN VI.

https://www.nesdis.noaa.gov/CRSRA/files/PSN_NOAA_License_Summary.pdf
Quote
Summary of Private Land Remote-Sensing Space System License

As required under 15 C.F.R. § 960.5(b), Space Systems/Loral, LL (“SSL”) hereby provides the following summary of the private land remote-sensing space system license that the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (“NOAA”) issued to SSL on August 8, 2018.

(1) The name, mailing address and telephone number of the licensee and any affiliates or subsidiaries
Space Systems/Loral, LLC
3825 Fabian Way
Palo Alto, CA 94303
(650) 852-4000
www.sslmda.com

(2) A general description of the system, its orbit(s) and the type of data to be acquired.
The relevant NOAA license allows SSL to obtain in-space self-imagery of local spacecraft operations. SSL plans to operate its Spacecraft Imaging System (SIS) on a commercial geosynchronous satellite to launch in 2019. This system of ground controlled high resolution cameras will provide specific imagery of early flight operations to verify appendage deployments and hosted payload activities. These in-space views will support confirming the health and safety of the primary satellite as well as any hosted payloads. Camera operations will be terminated prior to handing the satellite over to SSL’s customer.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 01/08/2019 12:09 am
https://twitter.com/sslmda/status/1082427646921846784
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 01/08/2019 12:11 am
Innovative Satellite to Improve Broadband Connectivity in Indonesia Arrives at the Cape for Launch (https://blog.sslmda.com/news-events/2018/innovative-satellite-to-improve-broadband-connectivity-in-indonesia-arrives-at-the-cape-for-launch)
By: Wendy Lewis, Sr. Director of Communications, SSL

Posted on Dec 20, 2018

After more than a week on the road, the innovative communications satellite we built for Indonesian satellite operator, PT Pasifik Satelit Nusantara (PSN) has arrived safely at the SpaceX launch base in Cape Canaveral, Florida.

Scheduled for launch early next year, Nusantara Satu, previously called PSN VI, will provide voice, data and video distribution service throughout South East Asia, and it includes Indonesia’s first High Throughput Satellite (HTS) payload. SSL is a leader in HTS technology and built more broadband capacity on orbit today than any other satellite manufacturer.

In addition to this being a high-performance, multi-mission satellite, it features a rideshare service and our next-generation solar electric propulsion system. SSL collaborated with rideshare provider Spaceflight to aggregate additional payloads that will accompany Nusantara Satu to orbit.

I talked to our Group President, Dario Zamarian and he called out these innovations:

SSL and PSN share a commitment to developing spacecraft that provide robust service for mission-critical applications. Nusantara Satu benefits from multiple SSL innovations including our next-generation electric propulsion system. SSL was able to help reduce the cost of launch for our customer by enabling the satellite to perform orbit raising for an additional payload.

As an important part of the infrastructure that improves broadband connectivity in Indonesia, Nusantara Satu will help build a better world. It acts as a vital link for remote islands and villages to access emergency services, educational opportunities, and other benefits of internet connectivity. In addition to providing broadband service, the satellite’s C-band and Ku-band transponders will be used for voice and data communications and video distribution throughout the Indonesian archipelago.

SSL procured the SpaceX Falcon 9 launch on behalf of PSN and worked together with Spaceflight and SpaceX to enable a unique mission that puts one payload into a trajectory toward the moon prior to the satellite bringing an additional payload to its orbit above the geostationary arc. To reduce the cost of launch for PSN, the satellite was designed for a shared launch.

PSN is the first private satellite telecommunications company in Indonesia and a leading Asian provider of a full range of satellite-based telecommunication services.

The CEO of PSN, Adi Rahman Adiwoso commented on the satellite and working with SSL. He said:

Nusantara Satu satellite is a very important infrastructure for Indonesia. As the first Indonesian High Throughput Satellite, it is another monumental step for PSN to realize its dream and carry on its commitment to provide broadband services across the vast archipelago of Indonesia. Therefore, PSN has selected SSL, a Maxar Technologies company, since both companies share an aligned goal of bringing far-reaching technology to improve lives and create new opportunities for economic growth in remote regions.

Now that the satellite is at launch base, we are looking forward to seeing it lift off soon!
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: GWR64 on 01/13/2019 09:47 am
The launch-mass of Nusantara Satu alone is 4735 kg.

Quote
Spesifikasi Satelit

Satelit Indonesia pertama dengan teknologi HTS
Nusantara Satu

Satellite Name :
Nusantara Satu/PSN VI

Manufacturer :
SSL, USA

Platform :
SSL-1300

Orbital Position :
146 East

Life Time :
15 years

Transponder :
26 C-band
12 Ext C-band
8 Ku-band spot beams

Launch Mass :
4.735 Kg

Launch Date :
February 2019

Launch Provider :
Space-X, USA

https://psn.co.id/nsatu/
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 01/13/2019 01:08 pm
The launch-mass of Nusantara Satu alone is 4735 kg.
...
https://psn.co.id/nsatu/

That page is showing a February 18 launch date.  (I'm also not entirely sure what launch mass means in this case.)
If I looked at that right (and I haven't had coffee yet so maybe I didn't) then the countdown shows a launch around 9pm EST on Feb 17 (2am UTC/9am in Jakarta on 18th).
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 01/13/2019 05:57 pm
The name of satellite will be rebranded as Nusantara Satu. Estimated launch date 13th Feb 19 at 9.15 PM Jakarta time. Count down from their website: psn.co.id/ctn1

I looked back at this page and it now shows the shipping route from SSL to the Cape.
Quote
10 Dec: PSN has stopped for the night in Mettler, CA. 
11 Dec: PSN stopped for the night in Blythe, CA. 
12 Dec: PSN has stopped for the night in Wilcox, NM. 
13 Dec: PSN has stopped for the night in Van Horn, TX. 
14 Dec: PSN has stopped for the night in Sonora, TX. 
15 Dec: PSN has stopped for the night just west of Houston. 
16 Dec: PSN stopped for the night in Slidell, LA.
17 Dec: PSN stopped for the night in Tallahassee, FL. 
19 Dec: PSN stopped for the night in St. Augustine, FL. They will sit there through Wednesday, allowing the offsite Ops team time to clean and move the MGSE into the high bay ahead of the spacecraft arrival. PSN is currently scheduled to arrive at SpaceX on Thursday at approximately 10am. Temp and humidity remain in spec with no issues to report. 
20 Dec: PSN spent the day safely in St. Augustine, FL. They will depart the truck stop tomorrow after the morning curfew to arrive at SpaceX at approximately 10am. Temp and humidity remain in spec with no issues to report.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 01/14/2019 10:07 pm
Media accreditation open.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Rondaz on 01/15/2019 02:04 pm
SpaceX nears Falcon 9 lunar rideshare launch as main satellite arrives in FL

By Eric Ralph Posted on January 15, 2019

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-falcon-9-lunar-rideshare-launch-prime-payload-florida-arrival/
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Alexphysics on 01/15/2019 08:32 pm
The Beresheet lunar lander is being readied for transport to Florida

https://twitter.com/TeamSpaceIL/status/1085238048743395330
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 01/17/2019 08:24 pm
Likely flight available here:

https://fr24.com/ICL1951/1f364056
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/17/2019 11:31 pm
AHEAD OF HISTORIC MOON MISSION, SPACEIL TRANSPORTS FIRST ISRAELI SPACECRAFT TO FLORIDA
BEN GURION AIRPORT, Israel, Jan. 17 – Israeli nonprofit SpaceIL and Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI)’s first lunar spacecraft began a historic journey to the moon today, when it was transported in a cargo plane from Ben Gurion Airport to Orlando, Florida, ahead of launching from SpaceX Launch Complex 40 (SLC-40) at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station next month.

SpaceIL and IAI recently packed the 180-kilogram spacecraft into a special temperature-controlled, sterile shipping container, built to protect the spacecraft and ensure it arrives safely at the launch site. After landing at Orlando International Airport, the spacecraft – named Beresheet (the Hebrew word for in the beginning) – will then be driven to Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, where it will be added as a secondary payload by launch service provider Spaceflight. It will be launched on a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket together with a geostationary communications satellite built by SSL. The launch is targeted for no earlier than mid-February.

“After eight years of hard work, our dream has come true: We finally have a spacecraft,” said SpaceIL CEO Ido Anteby. “Shipping the spacecraft to the United States is the first stage of a complicated and historic journey to the moon. This is the first of many exciting moments, as we look forward to the forthcoming launch in Cape Canaveral.”

IAI Director of Logistics Eyal Shitrit said that though IAI has extensive experience in complex shipping projects, “the transporting of Beresheet is a unique challenge since this is a once-in-a-lifetime mission and there is no backup plan – this spacecraft must arrive safely.”

In addition to the container holding Beresheet, two more containers will be included in the cargo plane, which itself is temperature controlled. SpaceIL and IAI engineers will accompany the spacecraft on the flight to Florida, and more engineers will join them in Cape Canaveral. Beresheet will undergo final tests before being launched by a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket.

Upon completing its lunar mission ­– the first in Israel’s history and the first that’s privately funded – Israel would join superpowers China, Russia and the United States in landing a spacecraft on the moon.

Since the establishment of SpaceIL, the task of landing an Israeli spacecraft on the moon has become a national project, with educational impact, funded mainly by Morris Kahn, a philanthropist and businessman who took the lead in completing the mission, serving as SpaceIL’s president and financing $40 million.
 
"The excitement we all feel today will only intensify moving forward, and I can't wait for the next milestone,” said Kahn. “This is only the beginning."
 
Additional donors include Dr. Miriam and Sheldon Adelson – whose $24 million contribution enabled the project to continue – and Lynn Schusterman, Steven and Nancy Grand, Sylvan Adams, Sami Sagol and others.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 01/22/2019 04:52 pm
Countdown timer taken at 1249EST today, which gives a local (at the launch site) launch date now on the 18th (UTC on the 19th).
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: input~2 on 01/29/2019 02:14 pm
"Satu" means "one" in Indonesian, so "Nusantara Satu" is actually "Nusantara 1"("Palapa N1" is also known as "Nusantara Dua" which is "Nusantara 2")
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 01/30/2019 04:14 pm
https://twitter.com/teamspaceil/status/1090656461959688192
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Comga on 01/30/2019 06:21 pm
Do we know, or are we likely to see, how the two spacecraft are mounted on the Falcon?
Did SpaceX or Spaceflight Services build a Sylda-like encapsulation for Bereisheet?   
and do we think that beefy decihexapod above is GSE or part of the flight system?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: zhangmdev on 01/30/2019 07:03 pm
Mounted on the cylindrical structure on top of PSN-6?

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-falcon-9-lunar-rideshare-launch-prime-payload-florida-arrival/psn-6-satellite-ssl/
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: russianhalo117 on 01/30/2019 07:19 pm
Mounted on the cylindrical structure on top of PSN-6?

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-falcon-9-lunar-rideshare-launch-prime-payload-florida-arrival/psn-6-satellite-ssl/
Yes. Was originally meant to allow stacked launches of either SSL-500 and SSL-1300 or a combination of the 2 bus version.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: vaporcobra on 01/30/2019 07:52 pm
Interviewed the mission director last week, more to come soon. Beresheet will be mounted on top of PSN-6 and deployed immediately after GTO insertion to exploit the Oberth Effect. The other copassenger will remain with PSN-6 up to GEO.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: HeartofGold2030 on 01/30/2019 07:59 pm
What is this mysterious other passenger I keep hearing of? Is it a military payload?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: vaporcobra on 01/30/2019 08:06 pm
What is this mysterious other passenger I keep hearing of? Is it a military payload?

"US government" was the most Spaceflight was willing to reveal. Probably DARPA, if I had to guess.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: russianhalo117 on 01/30/2019 08:09 pm
What is this mysterious other passenger I keep hearing of? Is it a military payload?
Spaceflight's GTO-1 mission which contains presently undisclosed payloads some of which are said by some sources to be for an undisclosed government agency. Their are some US Army and Navy payloads awaiting rideshare opportunities, but it is unknown if this flight can accommodate their orbital needs.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: vaporcobra on 01/30/2019 09:03 pm
What is this mysterious other passenger I keep hearing of? Is it a military payload?
Spaceflight's GTO-1 mission which contains presently undisclosed payloads some of which are said by some sources to be for an undisclosed government agency. Their are some US Army and Navy payloads awaiting rideshare opportunities, but it is unknown if this flight can accommodate their orbital needs.

Spaceflight said that there was just one other microsat copassenger aside from Beresheet. They aren't really trying to be secretive but are still trying to not advertise their involvement.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/01/2019 08:43 pm
Related to this mission.

ARTICLE: As new lunar race heats up, the Moon answers a centuries old question of craters on Earth -

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2019/02/new-lunar-race-moon-answers-question-craters-earth/

- By Chris Gebhardt

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1091451721879044096
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Rondaz on 02/02/2019 05:58 am
Israeli lunar lander passes tests in preparation for SpaceX launch to the moon

BY ALAN BOYLE on January 30, 2019 at 10:54 am

https://www.geekwire.com/2019/israeli-lunar-lander-passes-tests-preparation-spacex-launch-moon/
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: catdlr on 02/02/2019 07:08 am
Israeli lunar lander passes tests in preparation for SpaceX launch to the moon

BY ALAN BOYLE on January 30, 2019 at 10:54 am

https://www.geekwire.com/2019/israeli-lunar-lander-passes-tests-preparation-spacex-launch-moon/

Too bad future launches/missions will be with BO moon lander.

Quote
OHB has also partnered with Blue Origin, the Kent, Wash.-based space company founded by Amazon billionaire Jeff Bezos, on a future moon mission that would use Blue Origin’s significantly larger Blue Moon Lander.[quote/]

Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Llian Rhydderch on 02/02/2019 12:23 pm
Israeli lunar lander passes tests in preparation for SpaceX launch to the moon

BY ALAN BOYLE on January 30, 2019 at 10:54 am

https://www.geekwire.com/2019/israeli-lunar-lander-passes-tests-preparation-spacex-launch-moon/

Too bad future launches/missions will be with BO moon lander.

Quote
OHB has also partnered with Blue Origin, the Kent, Wash.-based space company founded by Amazon billionaire Jeff Bezos, on a future moon mission that would use Blue Origin’s significantly larger Blue Moon Lander.
.

Why is that "too bad?"

The more companies working on economic rather than political incentives to provide space access, and compete with one another to supply launch services to the market, the better for all of us who follow space technology development and want more of what the "promise" of spaceflight looked like 50 years ago.

If OHB wants to purchase a flight on a Blue rocket and lander, that's great!  They've just got to wait 'til 2021 or later to get that flight.  But it's wonderful that more options are coming to be. 
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: vaporcobra on 02/02/2019 12:24 pm
This is off topic.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Lar on 02/08/2019 04:41 am
For the record,  "Nusantara Satu" translates exactly to "one archipelago" (word order gets reversed so Satu which means 1, comes first) without "Indonesian" in it.

I asked my wife, a native Indonesian and teacher of Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian language) to non Indonesian speakers, and that's what she told me. The material in the intro post isn't quite right, it has too much stuff in it.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: jpo234 on 02/11/2019 04:24 pm
An interesting detail on one of the payloads:

https://twitter.com/PeterGuggenbach/status/1094943898407968768

Quote
We are going to the moon! A 3D engine mount from RUAG Space will be the first 3D printed part on the moon. Our 3D part will support landing and lift off of Lunar Lander from @TeamSpaceIL. Congrats to our incredible engineers!

What "lift off"?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Electric Paint on 02/11/2019 04:30 pm
An interesting detail on one of the payloads:

https://twitter.com/PeterGuggenbach/status/1094943898407968768

Quote
We are going to the moon! A 3D engine mount from RUAG Space will be the first 3D printed part on the moon. Our 3D part will support landing and lift off of Lunar Lander from @TeamSpaceIL. Congrats to our incredible engineers!

What "lift off"?
IIRC, the lander is supposed to perform a short 500m hop, at some point after initial touchdown.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: flyright on 02/11/2019 04:37 pm
An interesting detail on one of the payloads:
...



What "lift off"?
IIRC, the lander is supposed to perform a short 500m hop, at some point after initial touchdown.

The lander was designed to perform the 500m hop as a requirement for the now expired Google Lunar X prize. I don't know if they still intend to do the hop, but it would be awesome if they did.

edit: trimmed quote
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 02/11/2019 04:44 pm
Please trim quotes.  We don't need the same Tweet showing up several times in a row.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: scr00chy on 02/11/2019 04:56 pm
https://twitter.com/StephenClark1/status/1095009451935961088

Quote
Rideshare launch provider @SpaceflightInc confirms identify of second piggyback payload riding on SpaceX’s next Falcon 9 launch. SpaceIL’s Beresheet lunar lander and the Air Force Research Lab’s S5 smallsat will launch with Indonesia’s PSN 6 comsat no earlier than Feb. 21.]Rideshare launch provider @SpaceflightInc confirms identify of second piggyback payload riding on SpaceX’s next Falcon 9 launch. SpaceIL’s Beresheet lunar lander and the Air Force Research Lab’s S5 smallsat will launch with Indonesia’s PSN 6 comsat no earlier than Feb. 21.

More information about the payload here (http://bluecanyontech.com/blue-canyon-technologies-selected-air-force-research-laboratory-pursue-geo-missions/).
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: scr00chy on 02/11/2019 06:44 pm
Can somebody please explain to me what the planned launch profile for this mission is? I can't seem to find any conclusive information. This is what we know (correct me if I'm wrong):

-Total payload mass is around 5400 kg (4735 kg (https://psn.co.id/nsatu/) Nusantara Satu + 600 kg (http://www.spaceil.com/news/%D7%99%D7%A9-%D7%9C%D7%A0%D7%95-%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%A2%D7%93-%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%92%D7%95%D7%A8-%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%97%D7%99%D7%AA%D7%94/) Beresheet + 60–150 kg S5 microsat)
-Once the Falcon 9 reaches GTO (http://spaceflight.com/spaceflight-to-launch-first-privately-funded-lunar-lander/), it will separate SpaceIL’s lunar lander with a custom separation system at an altitude of 60,000 kilometers (http://www.spaceil.com/news/%D7%99%D7%A9-%D7%9C%D7%A0%D7%95-%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%A2%D7%93-%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%92%D7%95%D7%A8-%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%97%D7%99%D7%AA%D7%94/)
-Beresheet is mounted on top of PSN-6 (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=40516.msg1906525#msg1906525) so it presumably cannot be released after PSN-6
-Falcon 9 first stage is planned to be recovered (there is an FCC licence for ASDS landing (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=45440.msg1887406#msg1887406))

So, with all that, what is the launch profile supposed to look like? The rocket needs to carry this pretty heavy payload to an orbit with 60,000 km apogee while still allowing for ASDS landing of the first stage. When looking at other GTO launches, it doesn't seem possible. What am I missing?

Some ideas:

-The information about deployment at 60,000 km is incorrect
-Launch is expendable
-The mass numbers are wrong
-Little to no inclination change and/or low perigee buys you enough delta-v to raise the apogee high enough? (sorry if this is nonsense, I'm still confused by orbital mechanics)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: jcm on 02/11/2019 08:32 pm
For the record,  "Nusantara Satu" translates exactly to "one archipelago" (word order gets reversed so Satu which means 1, comes first) without "Indonesian" in it.

I asked my wife, a native Indonesian and teacher of Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian language) to non Indonesian speakers, and that's what she told me. The material in the intro post isn't quite right, it has too much stuff in it.

That's very odd since they have also talked about a second sat, Nusantara Dua :

https://kumparan.com/@kumparantech/april-2020-psn-luncurkan-satelit-nusantara-dua-pengganti-palapa-d-1548246721064822411
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: jcm on 02/11/2019 08:34 pm
Presumably the S5 satellite uses the SSL PODS attach system like  Hispasat 30W-6/PODSAT?

I can't find any details of Beresheet's propulsion system: just that it is `bipropellant'.  So,  N2O4/UDMH?
Any info on thrust and Isp and so on?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: scr00chy on 02/11/2019 09:22 pm
Presumably the S5 satellite uses the SSL PODS attach system like  Hispasat 30W-6/PODSAT?
Yes, it will stay attached to PSN-6 until right before GEO
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Lar on 02/11/2019 10:07 pm
For the record,  "Nusantara Satu" translates exactly to "one archipelago" (word order gets reversed so Satu which means 1, comes first) without "Indonesian" in it.

I asked my wife, a native Indonesian and teacher of Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian language) to non Indonesian speakers, and that's what she told me. The material in the intro post isn't quite right, it has too much stuff in it.

That's very odd since they have also talked about a second sat, Nusantara Dua :

https://kumparan.com/@kumparantech/april-2020-psn-luncurkan-satelit-nusantara-dua-pengganti-palapa-d-1548246721064822411
Doesn't contradict what I said. My point is that "Indonesian" isn't part of the name, except allegorically (in that Indonesia occupies the vast majority of the largest archipelago in the world) because nusantara just means collection of islands. The header got fixed by gongora to remove that.

satu dua tiga   empat lima enam tujuh   delapan sembilan sepuluh
one  two three four    five   six     seven eight      nine         ten

Indonesian is an interesting language. It lacks tense, plural, and gender for the most part, and many words are overloaded. Kepuluan means both island and archipelago depending on context. Pulua just means island and nusantara just means archipelago.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: ZachS09 on 02/11/2019 10:31 pm
Can somebody please explain to me what the planned launch profile for this mission is? I can't seem to find any conclusive information. This is what we know (correct me if I'm wrong):

-Total payload mass is around 5400 kg (4735 kg (https://psn.co.id/nsatu/) Nusantara Satu + 600 kg (http://www.spaceil.com/news/%D7%99%D7%A9-%D7%9C%D7%A0%D7%95-%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%A2%D7%93-%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%92%D7%95%D7%A8-%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%97%D7%99%D7%AA%D7%94/) Beresheet + 60–150 kg S5 microsat)
-Once the Falcon 9 reaches GTO (http://spaceflight.com/spaceflight-to-launch-first-privately-funded-lunar-lander/), it will separate SpaceIL’s lunar lander with a custom separation system at an altitude of 60,000 kilometers (http://www.spaceil.com/news/%D7%99%D7%A9-%D7%9C%D7%A0%D7%95-%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%A2%D7%93-%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%92%D7%95%D7%A8-%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%97%D7%99%D7%AA%D7%94/)
-Beresheet is mounted on top of PSN-6 (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=40516.msg1906525#msg1906525) so it presumably cannot be released after PSN-6
-Falcon 9 first stage is planned to be recovered (there is an FCC licence for ASDS landing (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=45440.msg1887406#msg1887406))

So, with all that, what is the launch profile supposed to look like? The rocket needs to carry this pretty heavy payload to an orbit with 60,000 km apogee while still allowing for ASDS landing of the first stage. When looking at other GTO launches, it doesn't seem possible. What am I missing?

Some ideas:

-The information about deployment at 60,000 km is incorrect
-Launch is expendable
-The mass numbers are wrong
-Little to no inclination change and/or low perigee buys you enough delta-v to raise the apogee high enough? (sorry if this is nonsense, I'm still confused by orbital mechanics)

scr00chy, I have some sources that list the actual mass numbers of all three payloads:

https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/s5.htm
S5 weighs 60 kilograms (~132 pounds).

https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/psn-6.htm
Nusantara Satu weighs 4,735 kilograms (~10,439 pounds).

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-44777305
Beresheet weighs 585 kilograms (~1,290 pounds).

Altogether, the total payload mass is 5,380 kilograms (~11,861 pounds). Also, I'm still under the assumption that the booster WILL land on the drone ship while the final geosynchronous transfer orbit's apogee WILL be 60,000 kilometers (might be a bit higher or lower depending on how much delta-v Stage 2 will use up).
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: LouScheffer on 02/12/2019 02:43 am
So, with all that, what is the launch profile supposed to look like? The rocket needs to carry this pretty heavy payload to an orbit with 60,000 km apogee while still allowing for ASDS landing of the first stage. When looking at other GTO launches, it doesn't seem possible. What am I missing?

Some ideas:

-The information about deployment at 60,000 km is incorrect
-Launch is expendable
-The mass numbers are wrong
-Little to no inclination change and/or low perigee buys you enough delta-v to raise the apogee high enough? (sorry if this is nonsense, I'm still confused by orbital mechanics)
I agree that one of these seems wrong:

Lack of inclination change is insufficient.  Es'hail 2 , at 5300 kg, reduced inclination by 2 degrees.  If they skipped that, they would have about 50 m/s more, only enough for a 40,000 km apogee.  Likewise low perigee burns can help slightly , but not nearly enough.  So it's not that.

Deployment not at 60,000 km could be wrong.  The source states "60,000 kilometers, or 37,282 miles,".  GTO orbit is about 36,000 km, so maybe there is a communication/units error.

Another possibility is "burn to depletion".  Most launches target an explicit orbit.  To do that, they need to have slightly more fuel than they really need, typically something like 1%. (So if your performance is normal you have 1% left.  If's it's 3-sigma bad, you have barely enough fuel.  If performance is 3-sigma good, you have 2% remaining.)  If you don't care about the exact orbit, you can use these last reserves by simply burning until the fuel runs out.   This reduces the needed delta-AV for the payload, but it's a pain in the butt since you can't plan any of your post-launch maneuvers in advance, since you don't know what orbit you'll get. 

From fitting to performance curves, SpaceX normally stops with the second stage, with residuals, at 5.5t.  If they burn the last ton (a little more than 1%) of the propellants, they will get an additional 300 m/s, enough for a 67,000 km apogee.   So if SpaceX tries this, in the worst case they get about 40,000 km.  In the average case, about 67,000 km, and in the best case about 150,000 km.

But if I was Beresheet is seems risky to count on this, plus they would need to get Nusantara and S5 to agree.  So overall I suspect the unit conversion error.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: OccasionalTraveller on 02/12/2019 08:13 pm
Beresheet would want zero inclination correction. The Moon's orbit is inclined ~5.14° above the ecliptic - which is ~23.4° above the Earth's equatorial plane (equal to the tilt of the Earth's axis). That comes to ~28.5°, which is - not entirely coincidentally - the inclination you get by launching due east from Cape Canaveral.

Any inclination change to assist Nusantara would have to be undone by the lander. So I would expect a greater apogee in preference to inclination change.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Lar on 02/12/2019 08:38 pm
Beresheet would want zero inclination correction. The Moon's orbit is inclined ~5.14° above the ecliptic - which is ~23.4° above the Earth's equatorial plane (equal to the tilt of the Earth's axis). That comes to ~28.5°, which is - not entirely coincidentally - the inclination you get by launching due east from Cape Canaveral.

Any inclination change to assist Nusantara would have to be undone by the lander. So I would expect a greater apogee in preference to inclination change.
That implies that we are likely to see an instantaneous or very short launch window  (that moves by 1/365.24xx of a day each day)I think? because isn't the inclination you get dependent on where in the earth's rotation you are? Naiive guess work.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Alexphysics on 02/12/2019 08:48 pm
Beresheet would want zero inclination correction. The Moon's orbit is inclined ~5.14° above the ecliptic - which is ~23.4° above the Earth's equatorial plane (equal to the tilt of the Earth's axis). That comes to ~28.5°, which is - not entirely coincidentally - the inclination you get by launching due east from Cape Canaveral.

Any inclination change to assist Nusantara would have to be undone by the lander. So I would expect a greater apogee in preference to inclination change.

Do I have to remember that InSight went to Mars from a polar orbit? You don't need to match the other object's inclination to get there, you just need to intersect your orbit with the orbit of that object and get to that intersection at around the same time that object gets there. The lander will land TWO MONTHS after launch so they will have a lot of time to perfectly calculate what they need to do to get to the point where they intersect the orbit and to get there at the appropiate time.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: scr00chy on 02/12/2019 11:48 pm
That implies that we are likely to see an instantaneous or very short launch window  (that moves by 1/365.24xx of a day each day)I think? because isn't the inclination you get dependent on where in the earth's rotation you are? Naiive guess work.
Ben Cooper says (http://www.launchphotography.com/Delta_4_Atlas_5_Falcon_9_Launch_Viewing.html) "The launch window likely stretches about 32 minutes."
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Lar on 02/13/2019 12:08 am
That implies that we are likely to see an instantaneous or very short launch window  (that moves by 1/365.24xx of a day each day)I think? because isn't the inclination you get dependent on where in the earth's rotation you are? Naiive guess work.
Ben Cooper says (http://www.launchphotography.com/Delta_4_Atlas_5_Falcon_9_Launch_Viewing.html) "The launch window likely stretches about 32 minutes."
seems short to me (2% of a day, more or less)...
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: ZachS09 on 02/13/2019 12:20 am
Quick question:

Will SpaceX recover the fairings for next week's launch (Fairing 2.0), or will they leave them in the ocean (Fairing 1.0)?

Also, has SpaceX determined which booster they will use?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 02/13/2019 01:01 am
Also, has SpaceX determined which booster they will use?

Yes.  (Now for us to determine which booster they'll use.)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: ZachS09 on 02/13/2019 01:11 am
Also, has SpaceX determined which booster they will use?

Yes.  (Now for us to determine which booster they'll use.)

I'm guessing they will fly B1048 for a third time, given that it was seen in the LC-39A HIF alongside B1051.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: crandles57 on 02/13/2019 12:54 pm
from
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-falcon-9-booster-highway-spotted-radar-satellite-launch-slip/

Quote
Given that B1046 and B1049 are on the West Coast.....  only B1047 and B1048 remain (in theory) on the East Coast ....... As a result, the only booster that is realistically available for PSN-6/GTO-1 is Falcon 9 B1047 for what would be its third launch.

That reasoning could be wrong: I can't see how they ruled out B1047 being the inflight abort test and B1048 being Nusantara Satu. However, it does seem more likely the other way around as they have more time for any integrating work with B1047 and Nusantara Satu both present. (Is this an issue, when did B1048 arrive at CC?)

Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Spindog on 02/13/2019 01:28 pm
In any case it appears a lot more third booster flights are on the plate for this year.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Alexphysics on 02/13/2019 02:16 pm
from
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-falcon-9-booster-highway-spotted-radar-satellite-launch-slip/

Quote
Given that B1046 and B1049 are on the West Coast.....  only B1047 and B1048 remain (in theory) on the East Coast ....... As a result, the only booster that is realistically available for PSN-6/GTO-1 is Falcon 9 B1047 for what would be its third launch.

That reasoning could be wrong: I can't see how they ruled out B1047 being the inflight abort test and B1048 being Nusantara Satu. However, it does seem more likely the other way around as they have more time for any integrating work with B1047 and Nusantara Satu both present. (Is this an issue, when did B1048 arrive at CC?)

What I don't know is what has B1048 that is so special that it'll be used for IFA. Also, from where did he get the booster was being used for IFA? Are we going to fall in the same trap where many people fell with B1042? Everyone thought, for some unknown and special reason, that it was the IFA booster. Either B1047 or B1048 could be the booster for this mission.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: whitelancer64 on 02/13/2019 02:33 pm
Is the IFA even close enough to have had a booster assigned to it?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: scr00chy on 02/13/2019 02:39 pm
Is the IFA even close enough to have had a booster assigned to it?
It's currently planned for June.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Comga on 02/13/2019 04:00 pm
Beresheet would want zero inclination correction. The Moon's orbit is inclined ~5.14° above the ecliptic - which is ~23.4° above the Earth's equatorial plane (equal to the tilt of the Earth's axis). That comes to ~28.5°, which is - not entirely coincidentally - the inclination you get by launching due east from Cape Canaveral.

Any inclination change to assist Nusantara would have to be undone by the lander. So I would expect a greater apogee in preference to inclination change.

Couldn't find it with a simple search, but somewhere it was discussed that Beresheet will execute several perigee boosts to increase apogee, with some intermediate orbit close to halfway to the moon. 
At that point cancelling inclination takes very little delta V.
Setting the GTO burn of the second stage to the optimum balance, or even over-weighting the reduction of inclination, should have little impact on the moon lander's flight.

It just occurred to me that when we did this optimization in graduate orbital mechanics class, the goal was minimum total delta-V.  However, not all velocity change is created equal.  For this kind of flight, GTO and GEO insertions come from different engines, specifically the F9 second stage and the GSO satellite respectively.  That would change the formulation from the minimum total delta-V to the minimum delta-V from the satellite, with full use of the second stage.  Then adding in the possibility of suprasynchronous transfer makes the problem a whole lot more interesting.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: jcm on 02/19/2019 12:34 am
For the record,  "Nusantara Satu" translates exactly to "one archipelago" (word order gets reversed so Satu which means 1, comes first) without "Indonesian" in it.

I asked my wife, a native Indonesian and teacher of Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian language) to non Indonesian speakers, and that's what she told me. The material in the intro post isn't quite right, it has too much stuff in it.

That's very odd since they have also talked about a second sat, Nusantara Dua :

https://kumparan.com/@kumparantech/april-2020-psn-luncurkan-satelit-nusantara-dua-pengganti-palapa-d-1548246721064822411
Doesn't contradict what I said. My point is that "Indonesian" isn't part of the name, except allegorically (in that Indonesia occupies the vast majority of the largest archipelago in the world) because nusantara just means collection of islands. The header got fixed by gongora to remove that.

satu dua tiga   empat lima enam tujuh   delapan sembilan sepuluh
one  two three four    five   six     seven eight      nine         ten

Indonesian is an interesting language. It lacks tense, plural, and gender for the most part, and many words are overloaded. Kepuluan means both island and archipelago depending on context. Pulua just means island and nusantara just means archipelago.


ah ok it sounded like you were saying the name was  "One Archipelago"  (as in, a single, politically united archipelago, and as opposed to "Archipelago 1".)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: ChrisC on 02/19/2019 03:20 am
Video of the Static Fire!

Granted that this is a long distance, low resolution shot, but that static fire looked longer than normal.  I count nine seconds of engines burning, before tail off.  Even if you allow for the TEA/TEB start, it seems long.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Alexphysics on 02/19/2019 07:13 am
Video of the Static Fire!

Granted that this is a long distance, low resolution shot, but that static fire looked longer than normal.  I count nine seconds of engines burning, before tail off.  Even if you allow for the TEA/TEB start, it seems long.

Which is standard procedure for reused boosters.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Llian Rhydderch on 02/19/2019 12:08 pm

Couldn't find it with a simple search, but somewhere it was discussed that Beresheet will execute several perigee boosts to increase apogee, with some intermediate orbit close to halfway to the moon. 
At that point cancelling inclination takes very little delta V.
Setting the GTO burn of the second stage to the optimum balance, or even over-weighting the reduction of inclination, should have little impact on the moon lander's flight.

It just occurred to me that when we did this optimization in graduate orbital mechanics class, the goal was minimum total delta-V.  However, not all velocity change is created equal.  For this kind of flight, GTO and GEO insertions come from different engines, specifically the F9 second stage and the GSO satellite respectively.  That would change the formulation from the minimum total delta-V to the minimum delta-V from the satellite, with full use of the second stage.  Then adding in the possibility of suprasynchronous transfer makes the problem a whole lot more interesting.

Take a look at the orbital trajectory and maneuvers used to get the LADEE spacecraft (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LADEE) to the Moon in 2013. 
This Beresheet spacecraft/lander mission is much like that.

In the Wikipedia article I linked, there is a very helpful "Animation of LADEE's trajectory from September 7, 2013, to October 31, 2013" graphic to illustrate, and the article prose described in the Lunar Transit section is quite thorough, and based on detailed sources on the astrogation for that mission. 
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Norm38 on 02/19/2019 03:11 pm
I really am surprised that the static fire has occurred and it still isn't publically announced which core is being used, which flight this is.  I guess this is the new normal, playing it close to the vest.  None of us need to know of course, and eventually no one will care.  Guess this is what everyday reuse looks like.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: ATPTourFan on 02/19/2019 03:44 pm
Usually first public mention of any prior service by the booster is in the media release which we'll have in about 24 hours.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: LouScheffer on 02/19/2019 03:45 pm
So, with all that, what is the launch profile supposed to look like? The rocket needs to carry this pretty heavy payload to an orbit with 60,000 km apogee while still allowing for ASDS landing of the first stage. When looking at other GTO launches, it doesn't seem possible. What am I missing? [..]
[...]    Another possibility is "burn to depletion".  Most launches target an explicit orbit.  To do that, they need to have slightly more fuel than they really need, typically something like 1%. (So if your performance is normal you have 1% left.  If's it's 3-sigma bad, you have barely enough fuel.  If performance is 3-sigma good, you have 2% remaining.)  If you don't care about the exact orbit, you can use these last reserves by simply burning until the fuel runs out.   This reduces the needed delta-AV for the payload, but it's a pain in the butt since you can't plan any of your post-launch maneuvers in advance, since you don't know what orbit you'll get. 

From fitting to performance curves, SpaceX normally stops with the second stage, with residuals, at 5.5t.  If they burn the last ton (a little more than 1%) of the propellants, they will get an additional 300 m/s, enough for a 67,000 km apogee.   So if SpaceX tries this, in the worst case they get about 40,000 km.  In the average case, about 67,000 km, and in the best case about 150,000 km.
Looks like burn to depletion is the answer.   From the Planetary Society talking to SpaceIL (http://www.planetary.org/blogs/jason-davis/beresheet-what-to-expect.html):
Quote
The nominal orbit is 215 by 60,000 kilometers, and may be higher, depending on the Falcon 9's performance.
If you don't know the final orbit, and it depends on the rocket, that's an almost sure sign of burn to depletion.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Comga on 02/19/2019 04:00 pm

Couldn't find it with a simple search, but somewhere it was discussed that Beresheet will execute several perigee boosts to increase apogee, with some intermediate orbit close to halfway to the moon. 
At that point cancelling inclination takes very little delta V.
Setting the GTO burn of the second stage to the optimum balance, or even over-weighting the reduction of inclination, should have little impact on the moon lander's flight.

It just occurred to me that when we did this optimization in graduate orbital mechanics class, the goal was minimum total delta-V.  However, not all velocity change is created equal.  For this kind of flight, GTO and GEO insertions come from different engines, specifically the F9 second stage and the GSO satellite respectively.  That would change the formulation from the minimum total delta-V to the minimum delta-V from the satellite, with full use of the second stage.  Then adding in the possibility of suprasynchronous transfer makes the problem a whole lot more interesting.

Take a look at the orbital trajectory and maneuvers used to get the LADEE spacecraft (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LADEE) to the Moon in 2013. 
This Beresheet spacecraft/lander mission is much like that.

In the Wikipedia article I linked, there is a very helpful "Animation of LADEE's trajectory from September 7, 2013, to October 31, 2013" graphic to illustrate, and the article prose described in the Lunar Transit section is quite thorough, and based on detailed sources on the astrogation for that mission. 

The Planetary Society just put up an article on Beresheet (http://www.planetary.org/blogs/jason-davis/beresheet-what-to-expect.html) with the flight plan

Quote
Event                                        Time            Apoapsis Periapsis Orbit period   Revs
                                                    (UTC)           (km)     (km)       (hr)
AM1 Optional apogee maneuver  11:50 22 Feb   59998    258          19               2
AM2 Apogee maneuver               02:24 24 Feb   59997    599          19             1.5
PM1 Perigee maneuver               07:29 25 Feb  123246    600          49              5
PM2 Perigee maneuver               11:18 07 Mar  276126    462         152             2
PM3 Perigee maneuver               02:24 20 Mar  396887  1447         258           0.14
OPM Out of plane maneuver        14:25 21 Mar  391974  1422         253            1.3
LOI1 Lunar orbit insertion            14:07 04 Apr   10012    289          14             1.5
LOI1A Lunar orbit insertion          11:29 05 Apr   10002    247          14             2.5
LOI2 Lunar orbit insertion            22:48 06 Apr      752    243          2.6             10
LOI2B Lunar orbit insertion          01:10 08 Apr      245    200          2.2           29.5
DM1 Descent maneuver               17:00 10 Apr     197      15          2.0           14.5

So, yeah, all delta V is not created equal and milking the maximum out of the second stage, a burn to depletion, is the way to go.

Am yisroel chai!
Am yisroel tzvov!

edit: ninjaed on the link by LouScheffer .
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Brian45 on 02/21/2019 02:28 am
Will this be the first night time attempt at recovering a fairing? Don't seem to recall any reports of them testing the process at night on the west coast.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: ZachS09 on 02/21/2019 02:39 am
Will this be the first night time attempt at recovering a fairing? Don't seem to recall any reports of them testing the process at night on the west coast.

Iridium-NEXT F7 was a night launch; it took place an hour and a half before sunrise. So, that was probably the first nighttime fairing recovery attempt.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: docmordrid on 02/21/2019 06:26 am
https://youtu.be/XS0E35aYJcU
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Raul on 02/21/2019 10:26 am
It looks that fairing has extra thermal protection on the tip as GPS III SV01 fairing.
Along with that, both fairings have also circular portholes, that weren’t typical for fairing 2.0 before.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: crandles57 on 02/21/2019 01:00 pm

scr00chy, I have some sources that list the actual mass numbers of all three payloads:

https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/s5.htm
S5 weighs 60 kilograms (~132 pounds).

https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/psn-6.htm
Nusantara Satu weighs 4,735 kilograms (~10,439 pounds).

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-44777305
Beresheet weighs 585 kilograms (~1,290 pounds).

Altogether, the total payload mass is 5,380 kilograms (~11,861 pounds). Also, I'm still under the assumption that the booster WILL land on the drone ship while the final geosynchronous transfer orbit's apogee WILL be 60,000 kilometers (might be a bit higher or lower depending on how much delta-v Stage 2 will use up).

So there are just 3 payloads and
https://www.spaceflightindustries.com/2018/09/11/spaceflight-offers-rideshare-launches-to-geosynchronous-transfer-orbit/
saying
Quote
The manifest for this Falcon 9 GTO rideshare mission is completely full. It features several undisclosed payloads along with an unmanned lunar spacecraft from SpaceIL, an Israeli nonprofit organization that was competing in the Google Lunar XPrize to land a spacecraft on the Moon. The first rideshare satellites will separate in GTO and then the SSL host spacecraft will continue on to Geostationary Orbit (GEO) where the remaining rideshare satellites will be separated.

is wrong - at least the several has turned out to be just one sat namely S5?

It appears to be ASDS landing and to achieve this, it has to be burn to depletion, so what happens to the second stage?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 02/21/2019 01:20 pm
SpaceNews said yesterday the whole payload stack is 4850kg and Nusantara Satu is 4100.
https://spacenews.com/falcon-9-launch-the-final-leg-of-indonesian-satellites-roundabout-journey/
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Elthiryel on 02/21/2019 02:38 pm
That makes the manifested orbit much more reasonable.

As far as I know, SSL has been responsible for the entire launch procurement, so maybe they were providing the mass together with the rideshare spacecraft all the time and that's how we all got mistaken.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: niwax on 02/21/2019 02:52 pm
Arstechnica article about the launch: The first private mission to the Moon may launch Thursday night (https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/02/spacex-set-to-launch-israeli-private-mission-to-the-lunar-surface/)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: scr00chy on 02/21/2019 03:05 pm
SpaceNews said yesterday the whole payload stack is 4850kg and Nusantara Satu is 4100.
https://spacenews.com/falcon-9-launch-the-final-leg-of-indonesian-satellites-roundabout-journey/
That explains why the first stage is capable of landing. The total mass was previously thought to be around 5400 kg and it didn't seem possible for Falcon 9 to reach the target orbit and still land on OCISLY.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: ATPTourFan on 02/21/2019 03:44 pm
Almost every news article about this lunar lander mission is stating that Beresheet will attempt the hop maneuver following landing -- even Eric Berger @ arstechnica.

However, The Planetary Society's mission preview article (http://www.planetary.org/blogs/jason-davis/beresheet-what-to-expect.html) states:

Quote
Under the original terms of the $30 million Google Lunar XPrize, Beresheet would have hopped to a new location at least 500 meters using its main engine after landing. SpaceIL no longer plans to do this, preferring not to press their luck after having touched down on the Moon successfully. It will be a big deal for Israel to become the fourth country to soft-land on the Moon (following Russia, the United States, and China), and the team would rather have an intact lander bearing the Israeli flag rather than one that ends up in pieces after a risky second maneuver.
(emphasis mine)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: punder on 02/21/2019 03:59 pm
Am I the only one curious about Mr. Steven?

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47391.msg1913430#msg1913430
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: ATPTourFan on 02/21/2019 04:30 pm
Confirmed. No hop maneuver:

https://twitter.com/MasaCritit/status/1098635413915340800

Quote
It's true. We figured out that one soft landing is enough for this mission, and risking the first Israeli heritage site on the Moon makes no sense.

Almost every news article about this lunar lander mission is stating that Beresheet will attempt the hop maneuver following landing -- even Eric Berger @ arstechnica.

However, The Planetary Society's mission preview article (http://www.planetary.org/blogs/jason-davis/beresheet-what-to-expect.html) states:

Quote
Under the original terms of the $30 million Google Lunar XPrize, Beresheet would have hopped to a new location at least 500 meters using its main engine after landing. SpaceIL no longer plans to do this, preferring not to press their luck after having touched down on the Moon successfully. It will be a big deal for Israel to become the fourth country to soft-land on the Moon (following Russia, the United States, and China), and the team would rather have an intact lander bearing the Israeli flag rather than one that ends up in pieces after a risky second maneuver.
(emphasis mine)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: nalawod on 02/21/2019 04:32 pm
Not sure where I should post this question- so sorry in advance if it's not the right place but is relevant to the current mission as well:  When SpaceX launches from LC40, I can see the tip of the rocket and the tops of the lightning towers from my balcony in Cocoa Beach.  Between launches, I do not see the lightning towers at all.   My question is, do they take these down and/or remove the insulators from the top between launches?  If so, why?  Seems a lot of extra work.

Sorry for the crappy photo- it was quick capture from a video frame through my spotting scope - about 8 miles to the buildings in the foreground on a hot day.  This shows the tips of the towers and the nose of the rocket.

Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: birdman on 02/21/2019 04:45 pm
Looks like there unfortunately won't be a fairing recovery attempt today. Darn
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Lars-J on 02/21/2019 05:03 pm
Not sure where I should post this question- so sorry in advance if it's not the right place but is relevant to the current mission as well:  When SpaceX launches from LC40, I can see the tip of the rocket and the tops of the lightning towers from my balcony in Cocoa Beach.  Between launches, I do not see the lightning towers at all.   My question is, do they take these down and/or remove the insulators from the top between launches?  If so, why?  Seems a lot of extra work.

Sorry for the crappy photo- it was quick capture from a video frame through my spotting scope - about 8 miles to the buildings in the foreground on a hot day.  This shows the tips of the towers and the nose of the rocket.

No, the towers stay in place between launches. Perhaps light conditions make them hard to see sometimes, but they never move.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: haywoodfloyd on 02/21/2019 06:01 pm
Not sure where I should post this question- so sorry in advance if it's not the right place but is relevant to the current mission as well:  When SpaceX launches from LC40, I can see the tip of the rocket and the tops of the lightning towers from my balcony in Cocoa Beach.  Between launches, I do not see the lightning towers at all.   My question is, do they take these down and/or remove the insulators from the top between launches?  If so, why?  Seems a lot of extra work.

Sorry for the crappy photo- it was quick capture from a video frame through my spotting scope - about 8 miles to the buildings in the foreground on a hot day.  This shows the tips of the towers and the nose of the rocket.


Could you take another picture in between launches to show us?
Thanks.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: ZachS09 on 02/21/2019 06:06 pm
I would be impressed if B1048 manages to land on the drone ship in rough seas.

Another thing to mention is back in March 2018 during that Hispasat mission; if B1044 was not expended and SpaceX decided to keep the drone ship out there, I would have predicted that the booster made it alive.

So, in conclusion, the landing conditions for tonight’s attempt gave me memories of the potential landing back then.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Lar on 02/21/2019 06:56 pm
Not sure where I should post this question- so sorry in advance if it's not the right place but is relevant to the current mission as well:  When SpaceX launches from LC40, I can see the tip of the rocket and the tops of the lightning towers from my balcony in Cocoa Beach.  Between launches, I do not see the lightning towers at all.   My question is, do they take these down and/or remove the insulators from the top between launches?  If so, why?  Seems a lot of extra work.

Sorry for the crappy photo- it was quick capture from a video frame through my spotting scope - about 8 miles to the buildings in the foreground on a hot day.  This shows the tips of the towers and the nose of the rocket.


Could you take another picture in between launches to show us?
Thanks.


What an interesting question. To the best of my knowledge SpaceX do not remove or lower the lightning towers and have not since the last time there was major work on the pad (post AMOS-6, several years back now).

Optical illusion?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: RocketLover0119 on 02/21/2019 07:54 pm
Not sure if I am the first to notice this, but the tip of the fairing has the black thermal protection just like the GPS-III mission.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: cygnusx112 on 02/21/2019 08:26 pm
Not sure where I should post this question- so sorry in advance if it's not the right place but is relevant to the current mission as well:  When SpaceX launches from LC40, I can see the tip of the rocket and the tops of the lightning towers from my balcony in Cocoa Beach.  Between launches, I do not see the lightning towers at all.   My question is, do they take these down and/or remove the insulators from the top between launches?  If so, why?  Seems a lot of extra work.

Sorry for the crappy photo- it was quick capture from a video frame through my spotting scope - about 8 miles to the buildings in the foreground on a hot day.  This shows the tips of the towers and the nose of the rocket.

I live to the west of the pads and depending on the position of the sun and how much haze is in the air affects if I can see the lightning mast on all of the pads.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: nalawod on 02/21/2019 11:01 pm
Not sure where I should post this question- so sorry in advance if it's not the right place but is relevant to the current mission as well:  When SpaceX launches from LC40, I can see the tip of the rocket and the tops of the lightning towers from my balcony in Cocoa Beach.  Between launches, I do not see the lightning towers at all.   My question is, do they take these down and/or remove the insulators from the top between launches?  If so, why?  Seems a lot of extra work.

Sorry for the crappy photo- it was quick capture from a video frame through my spotting scope - about 8 miles to the buildings in the foreground on a hot day.  This shows the tips of the towers and the nose of the rocket.

I live to the west of the pads and depending on the position of the sun and how much haze is in the air affects if I can see the lightning mast on all of the pads.

Yup, I agree, it must just be conditions that prevent me from seeing them.  I'll check back the next time we have low humidity (rare) and good viz (almost as rare!).  Thanks all for the replies.  I too was very surprised to not be seeing the towers full-time.  They must be there.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: StarryKnight on 02/22/2019 12:25 am
It's the 22nd UTC
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Prettz on 02/22/2019 12:45 am
I don't know if it's just me, but the youtube stream is doing extremely poorly tonight.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Jdeshetler on 02/22/2019 12:55 am
Great landing.  Was there a thunderstorms w/ lighting in the background as the 1st stage is coming down?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: StuffOfInterest on 02/22/2019 12:56 am
I don't know if it's just me, but the youtube stream is doing extremely poorly tonight.

It defaulted into 240p mode for me.  I went and switched it over to 720p manually (gear icon on lower right of screen) and the pictures cleaned up nicely.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: dorkmo on 02/22/2019 12:56 am
pretty cool seeing those sparks coming off the bottom before the feed cut
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: whatsup on 02/22/2019 12:57 am
I don't know if it's just me, but the youtube stream is doing extremely poorly tonight.
It's not just you, maybe post-live it'll be back to normal compression.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: matthewkantar on 02/22/2019 12:57 am
I think that is the Moon in shot of landed stage?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: dorkmo on 02/22/2019 12:58 am
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: brettreds2k on 02/22/2019 12:58 am
Why were they saying tonight’s landing was going to be the most challenging to date? Once on the drone ship the seas seemed very calm and skies looked clear?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: boog on 02/22/2019 12:59 am
Was that the near full moon shining through the grid fins on reentry - or what was that - seemed very bright!
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: dorkmo on 02/22/2019 12:59 am
Why were they saying tonight’s landing was going to be the most challenging to date? Once on the drone ship the seas seemed very calm and skies looked clear?

probably speed angle and heat
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Lar on 02/22/2019 01:00 am
pretty cool seeing those sparks coming off the bottom before the feed cut
What were those? I hate to be all newb but I was scared.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: brlavalamp on 02/22/2019 01:01 am
Why were they saying tonight’s landing was going to be the most challenging to date? Once on the drone ship the seas seemed very calm and skies looked clear?

The sky does seem clear, but when I review the droneship cam footage, ISTM the ship is rolling quite a bit.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: whatsup on 02/22/2019 01:02 am
pretty cool seeing those sparks coming off the bottom before the feed cut
Yeah, and it was after the entry burn, so it's still going fast enough to ignite those
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: brettreds2k on 02/22/2019 01:02 am


Those sparks had me worried, I’ve never seen that on any other landing
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: dorkmo on 02/22/2019 01:03 am
pretty cool seeing those sparks coming off the bottom before the feed cut
What were those? I hate to be all newb but I was scared.
I think someone was down there with an angle grinder
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: lonestriker on 02/22/2019 01:04 am
I think we've seen sparks on other night flights as well.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: OxCartMark on 02/22/2019 01:05 am
Interesting, no boostback burn.  Must be that they know a block 5 will handle zooming in with some speed.

But why the discreet sparks rather than a dispursed ablation (for lack of a better term)?  That's a new one.  And strange seeing it coming offa the business end while not seeing the grid fins get visibly hot (or maybe the titanium fins have not been showing heat?).
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: cyloncat on 02/22/2019 01:07 am
Boostback burn is for return to launch site. Not required for landing on drone ship.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: envy887 on 02/22/2019 01:07 am


Those sparks had me worried, I’ve never seen that on any other landing

It's just the ablative titanium heat shielding. No worries :D

We've seen lots of sparks on previous night reentries. And one when the aluminum grid fins actually burst into all-out flames, but it still landed.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: niwax on 02/22/2019 01:09 am
The ablative shield previously known as engine? Another great euphemism, ad-hoc ablative.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: envy887 on 02/22/2019 01:11 am
The ablative shield previously known as engine? Another great euphemism, ad-hoc ablative.

I'd worry more about the parts that don't get intentionally and repeatedly lit on fire.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: mme on 02/22/2019 01:15 am
Why were they saying tonight’s landing was going to be the most challenging to date? Once on the drone ship the seas seemed very calm and skies looked clear?
The seas were about 3.2 m last report I saw.  I think it looks calm because all you can see is the deck. Seas were bad enough that Mr. Steven threw in the towel.

Rough waves still at the LZ, though not as violent as earlier:

https://twitter.com/SpaceXFleet/status/1098755176838639617
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: brettreds2k on 02/22/2019 01:18 am
Why were they saying tonight’s landing was going to be the most challenging to date? Once on the drone ship the seas seemed very calm and skies looked clear?
The seas were about 3.2 m last report I saw.  I think it looks calm because all you can see is the deck. Seas were bad enough that Mr. Steven threw in the towel.

Rough waves still at the LZ, though not as violent as earlier:

https://twitter.com/SpaceXFleet/status/1098755176838639617

Oh wow, didn’t know they called off Mr. Stevens.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: SpaceDave on 02/22/2019 01:27 am
Really clear skies tonight. Landing burn was visible from CCAFS - an unexpected delight.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: LouScheffer on 02/22/2019 01:29 am
I get an apogee of 69,200 km.  Cutoff at 36423 km/hr, altitude 221 km, in the rotating earth reference frame (since speed was 0 at launch).  So assuming 27 degree inclination, we vector add the Earth's rotational speed to get 10547 m/s in inertial frame.   And if you are going that speed at 221 km, your apogee will be 69,200 km.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: mme on 02/22/2019 01:29 am
....

Oh wow, didn’t know they called off Mr. Stevens.

Also it was the "hottest" reentry to date.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1098767597858779136
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: docmordrid on 02/22/2019 01:40 am
Forbes is already playing the lunar angle

https://www.forbes.com/sites/elizabethhowell1/2019/02/21/lunar-launch-boosts-spacex-into-new-sphere-of-business/#92d3c5616b63

Quote
Lunar Launch Boosts SpaceX Into New Sphere of Business
>
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: FinalFrontier on 02/22/2019 01:47 am
Per Elon on Twitter this booster will be used for dragon abort test. This was her last full flight.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: ATPTourFan on 02/22/2019 01:50 am
Not long. Usually they do some quick clean-up edits and post the fully listed video shortly after close of webcast.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Alexphysics on 02/22/2019 02:27 am
Why were they saying tonight’s landing was going to be the most challenging to date? Once on the drone ship the seas seemed very calm and skies looked clear?

They were talking about reentry and not landing per se. Weather was not cooperating but they have landed boosters on far worse weather conditions. However a hotter reentry environment would explain why they talked about "hottest reentry" ever.

Remember landing =/= reentry

And that's why the entire process is usually called EDL: Entry, Descent and Landing.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: jcm on 02/22/2019 04:27 am
I get an apogee of 69,200 km.  Cutoff at 36423 km/hr, altitude 221 km, in the rotating earth reference frame (since speed was 0 at launch).  So assuming 27 degree inclination, we vector add the Earth's rotational speed to get 10547 m/s in inertial frame.   And if you are going that speed at 221 km, your apogee will be 69,200 km.

Confirmed, TLEs show 69036 km apogee.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: catdlr on 02/22/2019 06:22 am
NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine comments in this press release (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47391.msg1913960#msg1913960) doesn't even mentioned SpaceX...SAD!.  ::)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: MechE31 on 02/22/2019 12:27 pm
The ablative shield previously known as engine? Another great euphemism, ad-hoc ablative.

I'd worry more about the parts that don't get intentionally and repeatedly lit on fire.

Take away fuel film cooling on the engines and you might be surprised...
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: LouScheffer on 02/22/2019 12:29 pm
I get an apogee of 69,200 km.  Cutoff at 36423 km/hr, altitude 221 km, in the rotating earth reference frame (since speed was 0 at launch).  So assuming 27 degree inclination, we vector add the Earth's rotational speed to get 10547 m/s in inertial frame.   And if you are going that speed at 221 km, your apogee will be 69,200 km.

Confirmed, TLEs show 69036 km apogee.
I get about 1615 m/s deficit to get to GEO.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: haywoodfloyd on 02/22/2019 12:33 pm
Forbes is already playing the lunar angle

https://www.forbes.com/sites/elizabethhowell1/2019/02/21/lunar-launch-boosts-spacex-into-new-sphere-of-business/#92d3c5616b63

Quote
Lunar Launch Boosts SpaceX Into New Sphere of Business
>

Good article but it's too bad that she forgot to include China in the list of countries that have landed on the moon.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: soltasto on 02/22/2019 12:52 pm
I get an apogee of 69,200 km.  Cutoff at 36423 km/hr, altitude 221 km, in the rotating earth reference frame (since speed was 0 at launch).  So assuming 27 degree inclination, we vector add the Earth's rotational speed to get 10547 m/s in inertial frame.   And if you are going that speed at 221 km, your apogee will be 69,200 km.

Confirmed, TLEs show 69036 km apogee.
I get about 1615 m/s deficit to get to GEO.

I get similar numbers too, in particular:

2019-009A/44048 in 260 x 69036 km x 27.55° -> GTO-1605
2019-009B/44049 in 242 x 68845 km x 27.56° -> GTO-1606
2019-009C/44050 in 256 x 68808 km x 27.60° -> GTO-1606
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 02/22/2019 01:45 pm
Just out of interest, if SpaceIL had the money to buy lone payload status, could the Falcon-9 have sent Beresheet on to any kind of lunar transfer orbit without needing further apogee increasing burns?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Lar on 02/22/2019 01:47 pm
NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine comments in this press release (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47391.msg1913960#msg1913960) doesn't even mentioned SpaceX...SAD!.  ::)
Maybe no mention because  SpaceX was just the ride? In that case, it's progress? But who knows .
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: envy887 on 02/22/2019 01:54 pm
Just out of interest, if SpaceIL had the money to buy lone payload status, could the Falcon-9 have sent Beresheet on to any kind of lunar transfer orbit without needing further apogee increasing burns?

Yes. According to LSP's website, F9 can send 1865 kg to TLI (C3 of -1.1 km2/s2) and still RTLS the booster. Beresheet is only 600 kg.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: ZachS09 on 02/22/2019 02:40 pm
How did Nusantara Satu’s mass change from 4,735 kilograms to 4,100 kilograms?

I thought that the source where I got the first mass reading (Gunter’s Space Page) was right.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: PM3 on 02/22/2019 02:57 pm
How did Nusantara Satu’s mass change from 4,735 kilograms to 4,100 kilograms?

I thought that the source where I got the first mass reading (Gunter’s Space Page) was right.

4.735 kg is about the total payload mass of Nusantara Satu + Beresheet + S5. This number was listed on the PSN website: https://web.archive.org/web/20190114044351/https://psn.co.id/nsatu/

Meanwhile they fixed that.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 02/22/2019 03:39 pm
How did Nusantara Satu’s mass change from 4,735 kilograms to 4,100 kilograms?

I thought that the source where I got the first mass reading (Gunter’s Space Page) was right.

Gunter is not omniscient (although it may seem so at times.)  Sometimes his numbers can be estimates or just outdated, or as has been mentioned in this case maybe the meaning of the initial numbers was unclear.  If you're ever poking around for information and find something recent that contradicts Gunter's info you can send him a link, he's "Skyrocket" on this forum.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: punder on 02/22/2019 04:14 pm
Some beautiful shots from this launch. Loved the fireworks. Looking forward to landing footage. Good luck to Beresheet!

Is this where I can congratulate SpaceX, SpaceIL, Israel, PSN, USAF, and did I mention SpaceX?  :)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: mn on 02/22/2019 04:16 pm
Perhaps we should have separate post launch mission threads for each payload?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: punder on 02/22/2019 04:21 pm
GREAT headline from Eric Berger: "A lunar lander launches from Florida for the first time since Apollo 17"

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/02/a-lunar-lander-launches-from-florida-for-the-first-time-since-apollo-17/
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 02/22/2019 04:33 pm
Perhaps we should have separate post launch mission threads for each payload?

Someone already started a SpaceIL thread:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47217.0
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Firestorm76 on 02/22/2019 07:09 pm
-FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE-
Media contact: Zach Wallens, Puder PR, New York
[email protected]

WORLD’S FIRST PRIVATELY FUNDED LUNAR SPACECRAFT LAUNCHES SUCCESSFULLY ABOARD SPACEX ROCKET

...
The spacecraft successfully disengaged from the SpaceX Falcon 9 at around 60,000 kilometers above Earth’s surface...

Anyone want to let Mr. Wallens know that his fact is wrong about the separation being 60k kilometers altitude?  I believe the webcast showed that happening around 600 km.   We all know SpaceX rocks but a F9 cannot deliver payloads to at or above GEO (as this number indicates), directly!
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Comga on 02/22/2019 10:06 pm
-FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE-
Media contact: Zach Wallens, Puder PR, New York
[email protected]

WORLD’S FIRST PRIVATELY FUNDED LUNAR SPACECRAFT LAUNCHES SUCCESSFULLY ABOARD SPACEX ROCKET

...
The spacecraft successfully disengaged from the SpaceX Falcon 9 at around 60,000 kilometers above Earth’s surface...

Anyone want to let Mr. Wallens know that his fact is wrong about the separation being 60k kilometers altitude?  I believe the webcast showed that happening around 600 km.   We all know SpaceX rocks but a F9 cannot deliver payloads to at or above GEO (as this number indicates), directly!
https://goo.gl/images/ftQ4Hk (https://goo.gl/images/ftQ4Hk)
Don't sweat the petty stuff. (And don't pet the sweaty stuff!)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: mn on 02/25/2019 10:19 pm
I'm trying to understand the reasons for waiting for S/C deployment after SECO 2.

At that point you are just floating freely, so why does it make a difference when you deploy? why do they wait x minutes after SECO 2 before deploying one payload and then another varying number of minutes before the next payload?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: lonestriker on 02/25/2019 10:49 pm
I'm trying to understand the reasons for waiting for S/C deployment after SECO 2.

At that point you are just floating freely, so why does it make a difference when you deploy? why do they wait x minutes after SECO 2 before deploying one payload and then another varying number of minutes before the next payload?

Likely due to making sure spacecraft separation distances are greater than minimal limits.  When they release a spacecraft, the pusher increases the released spacecraft velocity slightly and reduces the S2+remaining spacecraft velocity (equal and opposite reaction).  They wait until there's a certain distance/time and release their next spacecraft so they're not too close to each other.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: mn on 02/26/2019 01:12 am
I'm trying to understand the reasons for waiting for S/C deployment after SECO 2.

At that point you are just floating freely, so why does it make a difference when you deploy? why do they wait x minutes after SECO 2 before deploying one payload and then another varying number of minutes before the next payload?

Likely due to making sure spacecraft separation distances are greater than minimal limits.  When they release a spacecraft, the pusher increases the released spacecraft velocity slightly and reduces the S2+remaining spacecraft velocity (equal and opposite reaction).  They wait until there's a certain distance/time and release their next spacecraft so they're not too close to each other.

A: That doesn't explain the wait before deploying the first (often the only) payload.

Edit: that wait was just over a minute so not really a 'wait'.

B: Iridium waited 100 seconds between deployments, here they waited over 10 minutes. I just can't imagine that's the reason.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: king1999 on 02/26/2019 01:39 am
NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine comments in this press release (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47391.msg1913960#msg1913960) doesn't even mentioned SpaceX...SAD!.  ::)
Maybe no mention because  SpaceX was just the ride? In that case, it's progress? But who knows .
Yeah I noticed that too. A typical press release would mention the launcher by a few words (like "launched by a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket"). There may be something going on with NASA reviewing "SpaceX culture" and AF reviewing "SpaceX certification process".
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: lonestriker on 02/26/2019 01:41 am
I'm trying to understand the reasons for waiting for S/C deployment after SECO 2.

At that point you are just floating freely, so why does it make a difference when you deploy? why do they wait x minutes after SECO 2 before deploying one payload and then another varying number of minutes before the next payload?

Likely due to making sure spacecraft separation distances are greater than minimal limits.  When they release a spacecraft, the pusher increases the released spacecraft velocity slightly and reduces the S2+remaining spacecraft velocity (equal and opposite reaction).  They wait until there's a certain distance/time and release their next spacecraft so they're not too close to each other.

A: That doesn't explain the wait before deploying the first (often the only) payload.

Edit: that wait was just over a minute so not really a 'wait'.

B: Iridium waited 100 seconds between deployments, here they waited over 10 minutes. I just can't imagine that's the reason.

Every webcast I've watched they've delayed deployment of the satellite, instead of immediate release.  The easiest explanation I can think of (just an educated guess) is to ensure proper orbit insertion.  If they need to relight S2 again to or use RCS to make minor adjustments, having the spacecraft attached to its ride is useful.  As for why they wait 10 minutes instead of 5, or some other random number?  Not sure on that one.  The major factors that change over time are the velocity of the spacecraft+S2 in their orbit (if elliptical), light/thermal changes with the sun, and tracking/overflight of earth tracking stations.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: ZachS09 on 02/26/2019 02:34 am
When the first GPS-III satellite launched last December, the satellite was deployed 47 minutes after SECO-2.

IIRC, the reason why is because the U.S. Air Force wanted ground coverage at the time of deployment.

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=30912.msg1891709#msg1891709
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Stan-1967 on 02/26/2019 03:54 am
SpaceX, per their users guide, is also contractually bound to confirm payload separation, provide an orbit injection report that include ephemeris, payload environment, & any significant events or anomalies.   This would add some time after SECO to gather the data & make sure contractual obligations are met before the payload is released. ( hi Zuma..!) 
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: johng on 02/26/2019 03:55 pm

Perhaps this is too late, but I have an observation of the launch that raises a question. 

I was viewing from the foot of the Garden Street Bridge (Max Brewer) in Titusville.  A few minutes into the launch myself and a few others observed a faintly green glowing object that appeared to be in fast fall/ freefall over the Cape.  The green glow and faint illumination reminded me of the thrusters on the Falcon 9 booster. 

Anyone know what that might have been?  The only thing I can think is that it was fairing related...
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: DigitalMan on 02/26/2019 05:07 pm

Perhaps this is too late, but I have an observation of the launch that raises a question. 

I was viewing from the foot of the Garden Street Bridge (Max Brewer) in Titusville.  A few minutes into the launch myself and a few others observed a faintly green glowing object that appeared to be in fast fall/ freefall over the Cape.  The green glow and faint illumination reminded me of the thrusters on the Falcon 9 booster. 

Anyone know what that might have been?  The only thing I can think is that it was fairing related...

I was watching the launch with my binoculars, it looked clean the whole way.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Prettz on 02/26/2019 05:55 pm
https://twitter.com/spacecoast_stve/status/1100433099685576704

Quote
#Falcon9 has been placed on the transporter. Unfortunately, I showed up too late for it to be included in my time lapse, but here’s a shot for y’all to see. @SpaceXFleet
I'm sorry... they're still removing the legs? Man oh man, what happened with that whole redesign?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Kenp51d on 02/26/2019 06:58 pm
IIRC this boosters next flight is Dragon  abort test (flight#4). It is unlikely to survive the abort. So it makes great sense ($$$$ literally) to remove a la dinghy related hardware.

Ken

Sent from my SM-T590 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: whitelancer64 on 02/26/2019 07:53 pm

Perhaps this is too late, but I have an observation of the launch that raises a question. 

I was viewing from the foot of the Garden Street Bridge (Max Brewer) in Titusville.  A few minutes into the launch myself and a few others observed a faintly green glowing object that appeared to be in fast fall/ freefall over the Cape.  The green glow and faint illumination reminded me of the thrusters on the Falcon 9 booster. 

Anyone know what that might have been?  The only thing I can think is that it was fairing related...

How long did you see it? Was it flashing? It may have been a drone filming the launch if so. Or it could have been anything from a meteorite far off in the distance to a nearby firefly.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: ZachS09 on 02/26/2019 08:31 pm
https://twitter.com/spacecoast_stve/status/1100433099685576704

Quote
#Falcon9 has been placed on the transporter. Unfortunately, I showed up too late for it to be included in my time lapse, but here’s a shot for y’all to see. @SpaceXFleet
I'm sorry... they're still removing the legs? Man oh man, what happened with that whole redesign?

I don’t know. Maybe they decided not to fold the legs back up after a few tests with certain boosters.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: teetlebomb on 02/26/2019 10:58 pm

Perhaps this is too late, but I have an observation of the launch that raises a question. 

I was viewing from the foot of the Garden Street Bridge (Max Brewer) in Titusville.  A few minutes into the launch myself and a few others observed a faintly green glowing object that appeared to be in fast fall/ freefall over the Cape.  The green glow and faint illumination reminded me of the thrusters on the Falcon 9 booster. 

Anyone know what that might have been?  The only thing I can think is that it was fairing related...

How long did you see it? Was it flashing? It may have been a drone filming the launch if so. Or it could have been anything from a meteorite far off in the distance to a nearby firefly.

I was in Titusville with my family for the launch. After MECO we got some [bad] video of the entry burn, as the moon started to rise. But that is obviously about six minutes after the launch.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: ulm_atms on 02/26/2019 11:13 pm

Perhaps this is too late, but I have an observation of the launch that raises a question. 

I was viewing from the foot of the Garden Street Bridge (Max Brewer) in Titusville.  A few minutes into the launch myself and a few others observed a faintly green glowing object that appeared to be in fast fall/ freefall over the Cape.  The green glow and faint illumination reminded me of the thrusters on the Falcon 9 booster. 

Anyone know what that might have been?  The only thing I can think is that it was fairing related...

Only two things "should" be falling off the rocket at that time.  The fairing and the stiffing ring for the 2nd stage nozzle.  Anyone think that ring could be it?  It should be going fast enough to vaporize when entering the atmosphere....pure shot in the dark here though....
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Jarnis on 02/27/2019 12:06 pm
I'm sorry... they're still removing the legs? Man oh man, what happened with that whole redesign?

The next flight of this booster will have no legs (in-flight abort) so taking them off makes sense. This case is no indication of if they could have folded them.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Alvian@IDN on 02/27/2019 12:49 pm
I'm sorry... they're still removing the legs? Man oh man, what happened with that whole redesign?

The next flight of this booster will have no legs (in-flight abort) so taking them off makes sense. This case is no indication of if they could have folded them.
Plus the reasons we already know about, like focusing more to Starship architecture, lay off possibly several from the Falcon & Dragon development, making a folding legs (leading to fast turnaround) seems not important because Starship (and its fast turnaround design) is getting closer
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: Alexphysics on 02/27/2019 12:49 pm
I'm sorry... they're still removing the legs? Man oh man, what happened with that whole redesign?

The next flight of this booster will have no legs (in-flight abort) so taking them off makes sense. This case is no indication of if they could have folded them.

They would have removed it anyways as they still need to redesign the legs for them to flod up properly. They have had problems with that and since then they have been removing them anyways. No point on trying it if you know it won't work.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: gongora on 08/22/2019 04:24 pm
https://twitter.com/ChrisJohnsonEsq/status/1164569433634988033
Quote
The 30 July 2018 FAA Payload Review & Determination letter for SpaceIL’s @TeamSpaceIL February launch of #Beresheet with @SpaceX was #FOIA’d last week by @LauraMontgome18 & now posted on her blog

https://groundbasedspacematters.com/index.php/2019/08/22/no-tardigrades-here/

Interesting the FAA requested SpaceIL not turn on cameras until past GEO, DoD is paranoid about anyone seeing US satellite designs.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 : Nusantara Satu (PSN VI)/GTO-1/SpaceIL : Feb. 21/22, 2019: Discussion
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 08/22/2019 11:00 pm
Interesting the FAA requested SpaceIL not turn on cameras until past GEO, DoD is paranoid about anyone seeing US satellite designs.
https://groundbasedspacematters.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/SpaceIL-Payload-Review-Determination-Letter-07_30_201812_compressed.pdf
Under "Additional Information"

Is that a DoD directive to protect their secondary payload on this flight, or is it a NOAA directive re: their regulatory control of Earth imagery?  Or both?