Author Topic: CNES ESA Prometheus / Callisto proposal  (Read 96306 times)

Offline Halken

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Re: CNES ESA Prometheus / Callisto proposal
« Reply #240 on: 08/21/2020 09:45 pm »
Regarding prometheus, they may be missing out on some reuse-ability, but maybe that has already been covered? As far I understand the full flow staged combustion has esp two advantages, one is seals in the pumps are less of a concern, so easier turn around there for the engine. There was also an efficiency increase, but I can find the number I saw yesterday on a discussion on twitter, but I believe it was something like 2x%. Does that seem right?
« Last Edit: 08/22/2020 07:37 am by Halken »

Offline Jakdowski

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Re: CNES ESA Prometheus / Callisto proposal
« Reply #241 on: 08/21/2020 10:05 pm »
https://callisto.cnes.fr/fr/lanceurs-callisto-sur-la-piste-de-diamant

The Former Diamant Launch Complex


Callisto and Themis launch site that will pretty much demolish all of the Old Diamant structure, One of the Early Themis test flights though will take place in Sweden

(In this image the site is reversed the launch site will be where the Assembly tower is in image 1


Image from a sentinel satellite shows the work done, this is an old image though if someone get a new one for me i have no idea how to use Sentinel Hub
« Last Edit: 08/21/2020 10:14 pm by Jakdowski »

Offline Halken

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Re: CNES ESA Prometheus / Callisto proposal
« Reply #242 on: 08/30/2020 04:17 pm »
I have made a new tread to discuss the EU space strategy in general.
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=51835.msg2126091#msg2126091

Offline Closer to Space

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Re: CNES ESA Prometheus / Callisto proposal
« Reply #243 on: 01/12/2021 02:14 pm »
The French President has just announced an investment of 15 million euros in the Prometheus program to accelerate the project by one year.

https://twitter.com/Elysee/status/1348976537262043137

Offline jpo234

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Re: CNES ESA Prometheus / Callisto proposal
« Reply #244 on: 01/12/2021 06:06 pm »
The French President has just announced an investment of 15 million euros in the Prometheus program to accelerate the project by one year.

https://twitter.com/Elysee/status/1348976537262043137
https://twitter.com/JmAstorg/status/1348998066351857671
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Re: CNES ESA Prometheus / Callisto proposal
« Reply #245 on: 01/13/2021 08:36 am »
If my interpretation is correct the 15mln is for the following:
At the Vernon engine test (/product qualification) site, ArianeGroup is going to test a LOxLH2 version of components of Prometheus in 2021.

I wonder how similar this is to the Vulcan 2.2 or 2.3 rocket engines proposed in the past?
The LOxCH4 version will most likely still be tested at the Lampoldshausen test site.

« Last Edit: 01/16/2021 10:29 pm by Rik ISS-fan »

Offline Borgias

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Re: CNES ESA Prometheus / Callisto proposal
« Reply #246 on: 01/13/2021 09:53 am »
If my interpretation is correct the 15mln is for the following:
At the Vernon engine test (/product qualification) site, ArianeGroup is going to test a LOxLH2 version of Prometheus in 2021.

I wonder how similar this is to the Vulcan 2.2 or 2.3 rocket engines proposed in the past?
The LOxCH4 version will most likely still be tested at the Lampoldshausen test site.

Hi,

No, there is 15mln for accelerating Prometheus development and 15mln for transferring hydrogen technology expertise. He doesn’t specify to who. He doesn’t talk of LOxLH2 version of Prometheus.

Offline ncb1397

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Re: CNES ESA Prometheus / Callisto proposal
« Reply #247 on: 01/13/2021 03:33 pm »
Here is a machine translated and captioned video.


Offline gosnold

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Re: CNES ESA Prometheus / Callisto proposal
« Reply #248 on: 01/13/2021 08:18 pm »
15 Million € is really cheap to bring Europe's only chance to compete with Starship forward by one year. It's a shame it was not already funded, but hopefully it will also accelerate the Themis timetable. With the way things are going, Themis might fly almost at the same time as Ariane 6.

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: CNES ESA Prometheus / Callisto proposal
« Reply #250 on: 05/18/2021 05:20 am »
New ESA contracts to advance Prometheus and Phoebus projects
17-05-2021 11:00 AM CEST

ESA is forging ahead with advanced developments in two flagship space transportation demonstration projects, Prometheus and Phoebus. This will benefit Europe’s new Ariane 6 launcher in the near-term, and prepare for a new generation of European launch vehicles in the next decade.

https://www.esa.int/Enabling_Support/Space_Transportation/New_ESA_contracts_to_advance_Prometheus_and_Phoebus_projects
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Fabien

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Re: CNES ESA Prometheus / Callisto proposal
« Reply #251 on: 08/01/2021 08:39 am »
The first testing site for Prometheus Engine, at Vernom, FR, is getting ready for the 10 to 15 first firings of the engine prototype, in december 2021.


https://spacegate.cnes.fr/fr/quezako-prometheus-allumez-le-feu

Offline DT1

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Re: CNES ESA Prometheus / Callisto proposal
« Reply #252 on: 09/05/2021 03:59 pm »
DLR Lam­pold­shausen pre­pares P5 test stand for the tech­nolo­gies of the fu­ture

https://www.dlr.de/content/en/articles/news/2021/03/20210831_flexible-test-infrastructure-for-space-propulsion-systems.html

The German Aerospace Center (Deutsches Zentrum für Luft- und Raumfahrt; DLR) is preparing a central component of its extensive test infrastructure for the future by expanding the European Space Agency (ESA) P5 large-scale test stand at the DLR site in Lampoldshausen. This means that the next generation of space propulsion systems can also be tested under flexible and reliable conditions.

The 65-metre-high building of ESA's P5 test stand towers over the DLR site. Inside, it has housed unique high-tech equipment since it was commissioned in 1990. It has long since earned international recognition and it played a central role in the development of the Vulcain engines for the European launch vehicles Ariane 5 and 6. Recently, DLR engineers used it to qualify Ariane 6's advanced Vulcain 2.1 main stage engine for flight.

Ready for new propellant combinations – including methane

A DLR team is now preparing ESA’s P5 test stand for its new task. The installation of a methane tank was an important milestone during the extensive construction work. The tank is 20 metres high, has a diameter of 4.6 metres and holds approximately 208 cubic metres of liquid methane. From 2022 onwards, a completely new generation of propulsion systems, developed and manufactured by ArianeGroup, will be tested on the P5 stand – starting with the Prometheus engine. This will be a fundamental component of a future European launcher. The propellants used are liquid oxygen (LOX) and liquid methane (LCH4). The combination of several Prometheus engines in the first stage will deliver sufficient thrust to allow the previously used solid-fuel boosters to be dispensed with.

Focusing on the future – flexible and efficient testing, including the new generations of propulsion systems

After upgrading and enhancement, ESA's P5 large-scale test stand will be one of the most modern and flexible test facilities of its kind. "The installation of the methane tank is an important step in this process. I am excited to see this strategically important European test infrastructure complete and ready for testing as soon as possible," said Stefan Schlechtriem, Director of the DLR Institute of Space Propulsion. The upgraded and enhanced test stand will make it possible to test several propellant combinations and switch between them quickly. Tests will be able to be carried out with the traditional combination of liquid oxygen and hydrogen as well as with the combination of liquid oxygen and methane. "This will allow us to expand our testing capabilities and maintain flexible use of the test stands," explained Schlechtriem. In this way, DLR is supporting the rapid and smooth transition to propellants for the next generation of launchers.

Space propulsion of tomorrow – more variety, new fuels and technologies

Every launch vehicle requires powerful and reliable engines. For a future European launch vehicle, this will be the Prometheus engine. It is intended to be reusable and its production costs should drop significantly in the long term. To achieve this, the development teams are relying on innovative approaches, which include 3D printing processes, digital engine control with artificial intelligence and the aforementioned new propellant combination. Investment in the development of the Prometheus engine will ensure safe and cost-effective European access to space in the future, especially after Ariane 6 reaches the end of its operational lifetime.
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Offline libra

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Re: CNES ESA Prometheus / Callisto proposal
« Reply #253 on: 09/05/2021 05:01 pm »
Pretty interesting to think they will reuse that old Diamant complex abandonned since, what, September 1975 ? a bit sad the old place had to be razed to the ground, but c'est la vie

Offline libra

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Re: CNES ESA Prometheus / Callisto proposal
« Reply #254 on: 09/07/2021 10:28 am »
Capcomespace is a very good website with plenty of CNES / ESA history details not found elsewhere.

Including Diamant launch complex fate between 1976 and 2016... when it found a new use.

http://www.capcomespace.net/dossiers/espace_europeen/espace_francais/diamant_CSG.htm

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.capcomespace.net%2Fdossiers%2Fespace_europeen%2Fespace_francais%2Fdiamant_CSG.htm

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Re: CNES ESA Prometheus / Callisto proposal
« Reply #255 on: 04/27/2022 04:19 pm »
Pretty interesting to think they will reuse that old Diamant complex abandonned since, what, September 1975 ? a bit sad the old place had to be razed to the ground, but c'est la vie.
If I'm not mistaken, was the diamond mobile launch tower no longer structurally safe. So it had to be demolished.
AFAIK they did they only demolish the launch stool, the mobile launch tower and the mobile airlock. All other buildings have been left in place and will be repurposed.

CNES was earlier this year actively seeking other potential small/micro launcher users for the diamond and possibly adjacent new launch facilities. parabolicarc.com
I hope they will conclude that additional facilities require a flame-duct, not just a flat pad. We shall see.
First user of the facilities this year is Callisto, or have serious setbacks occurred on the development of Callisto?
« Last Edit: 04/27/2022 04:31 pm by Rik ISS-fan »

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: CNES ESA Prometheus / Callisto proposal
« Reply #256 on: 09/08/2022 12:38 am »
Found this presentation and video of CALLISTO. First launch now planned for 2024.

Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

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