Author Topic: ISS Commercial Resupply Services 2 (CRS2) 2017-2030  (Read 443426 times)

Online Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 38923
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 24736
  • Likes Given: 12006
Re: ISS Commercial Resupply Services 2 (CRS2) 2017-2024
« Reply #360 on: 11/07/2014 11:53 pm »
...The failure is in Aerojet/Rocketdyne/P&W for not doing the work.   Spacex did it, Blue Origin is doing it.
This. PWR merely laughed off SpaceX. Now, they ended up getting bought out by Aerojet. Blue Origin, on the other hand, is actually doing development.

It's no longer enough to sit on your laurels in this industry. Which is a very, very good thing.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16924
  • Liked: 6806
  • Likes Given: 2949
Re: ISS Commercial Resupply Services 2 (CRS2) 2017-2024
« Reply #361 on: 12/02/2014 02:51 pm »
The deadline for submitting proposals for CRS2 is today (December 2).
http://procurement.jsc.nasa.gov/crs2/schedule.asp
« Last Edit: 12/02/2014 02:51 pm by yg1968 »

Online Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 38923
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 24736
  • Likes Given: 12006
Re: ISS Commercial Resupply Services 2 (CRS2) 2017-2024
« Reply #362 on: 12/02/2014 05:30 pm »
The deadline for submitting proposals for CRS2 is today (December 2).
http://procurement.jsc.nasa.gov/crs2/schedule.asp
Oh man, I haven't even started on mine, yet! ;)
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16924
  • Liked: 6806
  • Likes Given: 2949
Re: ISS Commercial Resupply Services 2 (CRS2) 2017-2024
« Reply #363 on: 12/05/2014 04:36 am »
Contract award date has been pushed from April 28th to June 10th 2015:

Quote
Contract Award  06/10/15
   
http://procurement.jsc.nasa.gov/crs2/schedule.asp
« Last Edit: 12/05/2014 04:38 am by yg1968 »

Offline A_M_Swallow

  • Elite Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8906
  • South coast of England
  • Liked: 500
  • Likes Given: 223
Re: ISS Commercial Resupply Services 2 (CRS2) 2017-2024
« Reply #364 on: 12/06/2014 08:59 pm »
Contract award date has been pushed from April 28th to June 10th 2015:

Quote
Contract Award  06/10/15
   
http://procurement.jsc.nasa.gov/crs2/schedule.asp

Anything going on in May that is forcing the slip?

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16924
  • Liked: 6806
  • Likes Given: 2949
Re: ISS Commercial Resupply Services 2 (CRS2) 2017-2024
« Reply #365 on: 12/07/2014 03:39 pm »
Contract award date has been pushed from April 28th to June 10th 2015:

Quote
Contract Award  06/10/15
   
http://procurement.jsc.nasa.gov/crs2/schedule.asp

Anything going on in May that is forcing the slip?

The date for submitting proposals had been pushed from November 14 to December 2nd. So it was to be expected that the award date would also be pushed out by a few weeks.

Offline HIP2BSQRE

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 668
  • Liked: 46
  • Likes Given: 14
Re: ISS Commercial Resupply Services 2 (CRS2) 2017-2024
« Reply #366 on: 12/07/2014 05:33 pm »
I concur that a free flyer would seem a very interesting solution to the microgravity problem. Specially when you already have Cygnus. I'm pretty sure that a 4.2m Cygnus wouldn't be very expensive, since Thales had to reduce the pressurized module from that size. And I thought that the station had multiple attitude changes, for example to minimize the solar panels drag. And they have the reboosts and DAM that are much worse.
Does the crew movement for loading and unloading really affect to much? Moving a few tens of kilos in a 400 tonnes station shouldn't have such an impact. I would guess that the gravity gradient and attitude control per orbit would be much worse offenders.
I have to admit, that I'm still pondering what should be the lessons for the next space laboratory. I believe the fully autonomous rendezvous, capture and berthing should be a must. Or at the very least handled by the ground crew. I love the idea of a free flyer. Not only for the microgravity reasons but for the potential for dangerous experiments that would be unacceptable on a crewed situation. If I had to work on space I would like to develop the business and technical plan for a commercial continuation of the ISS.

Does Orbital offer a free flyer if NASA wanted one?

Offline HIP2BSQRE

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 668
  • Liked: 46
  • Likes Given: 14
Re: ISS Commercial Resupply Services 2 (CRS2) 2017-2024
« Reply #367 on: 12/07/2014 05:36 pm »
Why did NASA not include in the specifications for "autonomous rendezvous, capture and berthing" in CRS-2 or at least have it handled by ground control?

Offline manboy

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2086
  • Texas, USA, Earth
  • Liked: 134
  • Likes Given: 544
Re: ISS Commercial Resupply Services 2 (CRS2) 2017-2024
« Reply #368 on: 12/07/2014 08:56 pm »
Why did NASA not include in the specifications for "autonomous rendezvous, capture and berthing" in CRS-2 or at least have it handled by ground control?
At least according Jim, Canadarm2 doesn't have that capability. I'm not sure what it would take to add it.
"Cheese has been sent into space before. But the same cheese has never been sent into space twice." - StephenB

Offline HIP2BSQRE

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 668
  • Liked: 46
  • Likes Given: 14
Re: ISS Commercial Resupply Services 2 (CRS2) 2017-2024
« Reply #369 on: 12/07/2014 09:08 pm »
Do we know who submitted bids?  Who do we expect to get contracts?

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: ISS Commercial Resupply Services 2 (CRS2) 2017-2024
« Reply #370 on: 12/08/2014 12:55 am »
Why did NASA not include in the specifications for "autonomous rendezvous, capture and berthing" in CRS-2 or at least have it handled by ground control?
At least according Jim, Canadarm2 doesn't have that capability. I'm not sure what it would take to add it.
From what I'be read unloading and loading supply vehicles takes a lot of crew time. Couldn't NASA use a robot under earth control to do a lot of this storeman's work.

Offline obi-wan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 329
  • Liked: 691
  • Likes Given: 30
Re: ISS Commercial Resupply Services 2 (CRS2) 2017-2024
« Reply #371 on: 12/08/2014 01:31 am »
Why did NASA not include in the specifications for "autonomous rendezvous, capture and berthing" in CRS-2 or at least have it handled by ground control?
At least according Jim, Canadarm2 doesn't have that capability. I'm not sure what it would take to add it.
From what I'be read unloading and loading supply vehicles takes a lot of crew time. Couldn't NASA use a robot under earth control to do a lot of this storeman's work.
Even a state-of-the-art dexterous robot like Robonaut 2 is many times slower than a human doing any given task. In addition, the packing system in resupply vehicles involves a lot of straps, nets, and cloth CTBs (cargo transfer bags) that are particularly difficult for a robot to handle. You would have to keep a resupply vehicle on station for many months to empty it robotically - and some of the contents are time sensitive.

For that matter, more than 75% of crew activities on ISS are working on ISS, anyway, not doing science or other "payload" tasks. Unpacking resupply vehicles is a task the crew likes - it means fresh food, mail from home, and clean underwear!

Offline nimbostratus

  • Member
  • Posts: 99
  • Mainland, China
  • Liked: 8
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: ISS Commercial Resupply Services 2 (CRS2) 2017-2024
« Reply #372 on: 12/08/2014 03:19 am »
Why did NASA not include in the specifications for "autonomous rendezvous, capture and berthing" in CRS-2 or at least have it handled by ground control?

Why is such a specification needed?

I think guys on the ISS is pleased to do the capturing job.

And do you know how Mir SS was forced to be retired?
« Last Edit: 12/08/2014 03:20 am by nimbostratus »
Wonders in the desert

Offline nimbostratus

  • Member
  • Posts: 99
  • Mainland, China
  • Liked: 8
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: ISS Commercial Resupply Services 2 (CRS2) 2017-2024
« Reply #373 on: 12/08/2014 03:22 am »
Do we know who submitted bids?  Who do we expect to get contracts?

I think most guys are expecting black horses.

« Last Edit: 12/08/2014 03:23 am by nimbostratus »
Wonders in the desert

Offline aga

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 364
  • Per aspera ad astra
  • Germany
  • Liked: 64
  • Likes Given: 1437
Re: ISS Commercial Resupply Services 2 (CRS2) 2017-2024
« Reply #374 on: 12/08/2014 08:06 am »
And do you know how Mir SS was forced to be retired?

if you are talking about progress hitting the station... then it is exactly an argument to support the autonomous docking... not against the autonomous docking
because... progress hit the station with manual docking performed by the station crew... not with the autonomous one
42

Offline baldusi

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8354
  • Buenos Aires, Argentina
  • Liked: 2537
  • Likes Given: 8166
Re: ISS Commercial Resupply Services 2 (CRS2) 2017-2024
« Reply #375 on: 12/08/2014 03:26 pm »
Do we know who submitted bids?  Who do we expect to get contracts?
SpaceX and Orbital did said they were submitting bids, Boeing (CST-100) and Sierra Nevada (Dream Chaser) have said they wanted to compete. So I would expect at least those four. The other two that could are Blue Origin (their capsule is advancing, but I don't believe they could do it by 2018 without some serious extra money, which this time simply won't be there. And ATK/Liberty could have made a bid, but the merger process might have prevented it. I believe that they might have negotiated an "optional" upgrade.
Say, while Antares 200 core will be a RP-1/LOX stage with Russian engines, they might have left the door open for a 300 core with a solid first (and may be even second) stage. Or they might even have left the door open for the Stratolauncher. Whoever launches on Atlas V (CST-100, Dream Chaser and Blue Origin if they actually bid), will have to have a transition strategy.
Since this time there's no time nor schedule for a long development process, only those that have a significantly developed system can realistically bid. And let me make some educated guesses.
Nobody save Cygnus has a disposable system to start with. And thus the rest are usually volume limited. Thus, I expect a Cygnus Enhanced (or even a Super 33m) to be one of the chosen providers.
Then, you will realistically have a single slot for returnable cargo competed among Dragon 2, CST-100, DreamChaser and Blue Origin Crew Capsule. LM is prevented from competing because of the Orion contract, so you don't really have anybody else with actual chances to compete.
I believe that NASA would love to have DreamChaser, for many reasons. But I seriously doubt that anybody will be able to compete with SpaceX's price. And they will obviously fit the requirements. So I would expect both current suppliers to get a renewal.
Now, if ISS get's extended beyond 2024, things might change, but as of right now, I see the SpaceX and Orbital as the safest choices.

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16924
  • Liked: 6806
  • Likes Given: 2949
Re: ISS Commercial Resupply Services 2 (CRS2) 2017-2024
« Reply #376 on: 12/08/2014 03:52 pm »
Do we know who submitted bids?  Who do we expect to get contracts?

We don't know who submitted bids unless the company decides to disclose that information.

My guess is that SpaceX and Orbital will win again. NASA could decide to have a third commercial cargo provider. But unless Boeing and SNC are price competitive with Orbital and SpaceX, I don't see that happening.
« Last Edit: 12/08/2014 03:53 pm by yg1968 »

Offline terryy

  • Member
  • Posts: 25
  • Liked: 34
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ISS Commercial Resupply Services 2 (CRS2) 2017-2024
« Reply #377 on: 12/16/2014 11:15 pm »
Looks like we have confirmation that Boeing and SNC both put in bids on the CRS2 contract.

http://spacenews.com/boeing-offers-cst-100-for-iss-cargo-contract/

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16924
  • Liked: 6806
  • Likes Given: 2949
Re: ISS Commercial Resupply Services 2 (CRS2) 2017-2024
« Reply #378 on: 12/16/2014 11:38 pm »
Looks like we have confirmation that Boeing and SNC both put in bids on the CRS2 contract.

http://spacenews.com/boeing-offers-cst-100-for-iss-cargo-contract/

The article also says that Orbital submitted a CRS2 bid. SpaceX declined to comment.

Offline DGH

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 168
  • Liked: 7
  • Likes Given: 4
Re: ISS Commercial Resupply Services 2 (CRS2) 2017-2024
« Reply #379 on: 12/23/2014 11:53 am »
Looks like we have confirmation that Boeing and SNC both put in bids on the CRS2 contract.

http://spacenews.com/boeing-offers-cst-100-for-iss-cargo-contract/

Very useful article, I am surprised there have not been more comments.
This article confirms cargo version of CST-100 is in excess of 2500 kg.
Previously they kept saying in excess of 1100 kg which was strangely similar to an early number of 1067 kg and 7 crew.
It looks like Boeing has been underplaying CST-100s capabilities to the media.

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
0