Author Topic: SpaceX Manifest Table Formatting Discussion  (Read 48637 times)

Offline toruonu

Re: SpaceX Manifest Table Formatting Discussion
« Reply #60 on: 02/04/2018 11:19 am »
Shouldn't Zuma be green? The launch was successful from SpaceX's perspective. The loss of payload occurred after SpaceX's portion of the mission was over.
Which loss of payload? There has been no confirmed loss of payload.

Offline Lar

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Table Formatting Discussion
« Reply #61 on: 02/04/2018 02:37 pm »
Shouldn't Zuma be green? The launch was successful from SpaceX's perspective. The loss of payload occurred after SpaceX's portion of the mission was over.
Which loss of payload? There has been no confirmed loss of payload.

Alleged loss of alleged payload. Better?
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Norm38

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Table Formatting Discussion
« Reply #62 on: 02/07/2018 03:03 pm »
How can an expendable return (Govsat) be unsuccessful?  ???
« Last Edit: 02/07/2018 03:03 pm by Norm38 »

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Table Formatting Discussion
« Reply #63 on: 02/07/2018 03:27 pm »
How can an expendable return (Govsat) be unsuccessful?  ???

Because they tried to expend the booster, and failed... :D
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Offline OccasionalTraveller

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Table Formatting Discussion
« Reply #64 on: 02/07/2018 03:37 pm »
How can an expendable return (Govsat) be unsuccessful?  ???
They were testing a landing burn without having anything to actually land on. It didn't sink and appeared to have remained intact. Or at least it didn't sink straight away. There's a speculative recovery thread on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/7uw4ly/b01322_the_falcon_that_could_recovery_thread/

By contrast, the FH Centre Core is reported to have broken up on impact with the ocean, after missing the drone ship, due to two engines not igniting for the landing burn (Elon Musk in the post-launch press conference).

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Offline cscott

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Table Formatting Discussion
« Reply #65 on: 02/07/2018 06:52 pm »
How can an expendable return (Govsat) be unsuccessful?  ???

Because they tried to expend the booster, and failed... :D
I think the responders failed to notice the smiley face at the end of the_other_Doug's post.

Offline gongora

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Table Formatting Discussion
« Reply #66 on: 02/08/2018 02:28 am »
Pursuant to that, it's too early to put any notional StarLink launches on, no? Or is it?

In general I'm trying to avoid putting stuff that's still notional (although I will keep a single Mars entry on there since that is the goal.)  Once SpaceX does some successful satellite testing, gets their constellation licensed, and announces a real time frame for deployment I'll start adding Starlink to the manifest.

Offline meekGee

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Table Formatting Discussion
« Reply #67 on: 02/12/2018 02:39 am »
On the leading post, for GovSat, you marked a yellow "X" as the landing disposition - an "unsuccessful expendable" - meaning they failed to expend it since it wouldn't sink?

If on purpose, that's awesome.
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Offline Lar

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Table Formatting Discussion
« Reply #68 on: 02/12/2018 04:26 am »
On the leading post, for GovSat, you marked a yellow "X" as the landing disposition - an "unsuccessful expendable" - meaning they failed to expend it since it wouldn't sink?

If on purpose, that's awesome.
You're a little behind. But now we have to decide what to do to denote that the booster they didn't intend to recover ended up having to be destroyed... blinking yellow X ???  :)
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline meekGee

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Table Formatting Discussion
« Reply #69 on: 02/12/2018 08:06 am »
On the leading post, for GovSat, you marked a yellow "X" as the landing disposition - an "unsuccessful expendable" - meaning they failed to expend it since it wouldn't sink?

If on purpose, that's awesome.
You're a little behind. But now we have to decide what to do to denote that the booster they didn't intend to recover ended up having to be destroyed... blinking yellow X ???  :)
Glad to see things are fully under control even when I'm away. (Eye roll)

My late vote: The yellow X should shine in perpetuity. That stage fought till the bitter end, and it took a effin jet fighter crack demolition team act of god to take it out..

To 1032!
« Last Edit: 02/12/2018 02:56 pm by meekGee »
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Offline vanoord

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Table Formatting Discussion
« Reply #70 on: 02/12/2018 10:31 am »
Nope. SpaceX have denied that they had to ask the USAF for assistance.

It either broke up and sank of its own accord; or it was persuaded to do so by outside influence - possibly (but not necessarily) including some form of impact from undisclosed material delivered from a safe distance via means unknown.

Ultimately, it was subject to a soft-landing in water and was expended - as such it probably qualifies as a successful 'Expendable' mission, albeit it lingered for several days.

Offline dsobin

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Table Formatting Discussion
« Reply #71 on: 02/19/2018 06:24 pm »
I notice the FH Demo "Return" column shows LSL, while STP-2 is shown as LLS.

If the positions denote left-booster, center core, right-booster, I think STP-2 should be LSL.

Or, if the positions denote left-booster, right-booster, center core, then FH Demo should be changed to LLS.

Whichever is preferred, I think the table should show this consistently.
IMHO, left-center-right is the way to go.

A related issue was discussed in the main Manifest thread, but I didn't see a definitive answer, and the current Table is still inconsistent with respect to past and future launches:
Agree about the abbreviation order, it should be consistent, and side/center/side is better than center/side/side or side/side/center

Offline Lar

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Table Formatting Discussion
« Reply #72 on: 02/24/2018 05:42 pm »
So[1] should the chart be extended/expanded with a new column to track fairings? They are recovered bits and it is good to collect the data. So far we have some not very clear recovery attempts starting not sure how far back, and then one fairly well publicised one that had a partial success for one half and a fail for the other half[2]

Or is that better tracked on a different (and thus harder to correlate) chart?

1 - because the chart isn't wide enough, and because we don't have anything else to talk about...
2 - yes, the halves need to be tracked separately
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Table Formatting Discussion
« Reply #73 on: 02/24/2018 05:58 pm »
So[1] should the chart be extended/expanded with a new column to track fairings?

I’d be very happy to see fairing recovery data added, as this has the big advantage of having all the data accessible in one place. I really appreciate and like this thread for that reason.

As the return colum is already 3 characters wide, F9 fairing info can be added without any increase in width. Of course that doesn’t work for FH, so either two additional characters are needed or some sort of code/notes would have to be used to avoid increasing the width. Personally I’m ok with either approach.

Offline gongora

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Table Formatting Discussion
« Reply #74 on: 02/24/2018 06:52 pm »
Let's see, we could get a list of 256 colors, use 2 bits for each core and 1 bit for each fairing, and I can just have one character to give the recovery status.

Offline AC in NC

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Table Formatting Discussion
« Reply #75 on: 02/24/2018 08:28 pm »
Do it all together by dropping the extraneous "/" in the Time/UTC and the "-" in the Site and add two characters on the outside of Return for Fairing Halves.  Underscores in the Return column of the example below are aren't necessary but help maintain good clean alignment.

       Local        LV  Core    Ret-  .                             .    Mass   .     Mis-
Est. Date,  Time-UTC.   S/N    urn   Payload(s)                    Orb  (kg)   Site sion
------------------ --- ------ -----  ----------------------------  ---  -----  -----  ----
2018-01-07*2000-5F91043__L__ZumaLEO?C40(48)
2018-01-31  1625-5F91032.2__X__GovSat-1 (SES-16)GTO4230C4049
2018-02-06  1545-5HRNR*_LSL_FH Demo/Tesla RoadsterESC~1.2kC39A(50)
2018-02-22  0617-8F91038.2F_X_fPAZ & Microsat 2a/2bSSO2.2k+V4E51
------------------- --- ------ -----  ----------------------------  ---  -----  ----- ----
2018-02-xx  0035-5F91044__S__Hispasat 1F (30W-6)GTO6092C4052
« Last Edit: 02/24/2018 11:02 pm by AC in NC »

Offline Comga

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Table Formatting Discussion
« Reply #76 on: 02/25/2018 12:04 am »
If each of the five components: core, left boooster, right booster, left fairing half, right fairing half, has three potential states: expended, failed recovery, successful recovery, there are 243 combinations. That is less than the 256 ASCII characters, so each outcome can be denoted, albeit cryptically, with a single character.
Now if we add in the characters of the Klingon alphabet.....
Let’s not get carried away here.
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Online launchwatcher

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Table Formatting Discussion
« Reply #77 on: 02/25/2018 12:40 am »
If each of the five components: core, left boooster, right booster, left fairing half, right fairing half, has three potential states: expended, failed recovery, successful recovery, there are 243 combinations. That is less than the 256 ASCII characters, so each outcome can be denoted, albeit cryptically, with a single character.
Now if we add in the characters of the Klingon alphabet.....
Let’s not get carried away here.
ASCII is a 7-bit code (meaning only 128 distinct codepoints), but it devotes a little over a quarter of its code space to non-printing control characters; only 94 ASCII characters actually make a mark on the page/screen.

you're looking for unicode, which is sufficiently extensible that, if the standards body let you, you could define a set of combining characters that render into the desired rocket configuration.   Unfortunately, the complexity is such that some vendors would get it wrong and certain vehicle configurations would end up crashing your browser....


Offline Comga

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Table Formatting Discussion
« Reply #78 on: 02/25/2018 12:59 am »
So you are saying we could use ASCII if we use 2 or 3 colors.
I am afraid that you are not kidding, launchwatcher
I was
“Things should be kept as simple as possible, but no simpler.”
« Last Edit: 02/25/2018 01:02 am by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Online launchwatcher

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Re: SpaceX Manifest Table Formatting Discussion
« Reply #79 on: 02/25/2018 03:39 am »
So you are saying we could use ASCII if we use 2 or 3 colors.
I am afraid that you are not kidding, launchwatcher
I was
“Things should be kept as simple as possible, but no simpler.”
Indeed.

I was, um, paying tribute to a recently fixed bug in several apple products described in some depth here: https://manishearth.github.io/blog/2018/02/15/picking-apart-the-crashing-ios-string/

When you set out to be able to render text in any of world's written languages, it's hard to keep things simple.

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