I think the relevant quote is;"We fired not just NASA people but had the people that were there at the contractor fired also "
Quote from: pummuf on 02/26/2011 11:13 pmI think the relevant quote is;"We fired not just NASA people but had the people that were there at the contractor fired also "NASA people were not "fired" as in losing employment. They were removed from their current assignments and moved elsewhere within NASA.
Quote from: Jim on 02/27/2011 11:45 amQuote from: pummuf on 02/26/2011 11:13 pmI think the relevant quote is;"We fired not just NASA people but had the people that were there at the contractor fired also "NASA people were not "fired" as in losing employment. They were removed from their current assignments and moved elsewhere within NASA.Correct. "NASA people" are not "employees". They are civil servants and cannot be "fired" in the way most people understand the term; they do *not* loose their employment. They can only be reassigned elsewhere. It takes an enormous effort and many, many thousands of funding dollars to actually "fire" a civil servant.
Correct. "NASA people" are not "employees". They are civil servants and cannot be "fired" in the way most people understand the term; they do *not* loose their employment. They can only be reassigned elsewhere. It takes an enormous effort and many, many thousands of funding dollars to actually "fire" a civil servant.
Heads should roll for the CxP fiasco.
Quote from: pummuf on 02/26/2011 11:13 pm Heads should roll for the CxP fiasco. Considering that the program was never properly funded, who, specifically, failed? But haven't you noticed? Heads *are* rolling. Thousands of them.http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2010/09/michoud_layoffs_expected_thurs.htmlhttp://www.floridatoday.com/article/20100926/NEWS0204/9260338/For-KSC-workers-reality-hits-homehttp://blog.al.com/breaking/2010/10/constellation_layoffs_begin_in.htmlhttp://blogs.chron.com/txpotomac/2010/08/post_307.htmlhttp://news.hjnews.com/news/article_b993cacc-ccf4-11df-90ba-001cc4c002e0.html?mode=image - Ed Kyle
Quote from: edkyle99 on 02/28/2011 01:20 amQuote from: pummuf on 02/26/2011 11:13 pm Heads should roll for the CxP fiasco. Considering that the program was never properly funded, who, specifically, failed? But haven't you noticed? Heads *are* rolling. Thousands of them.http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2010/09/michoud_layoffs_expected_thurs.htmlhttp://www.floridatoday.com/article/20100926/NEWS0204/9260338/For-KSC-workers-reality-hits-homehttp://blog.al.com/breaking/2010/10/constellation_layoffs_begin_in.htmlhttp://blogs.chron.com/txpotomac/2010/08/post_307.htmlhttp://news.hjnews.com/news/article_b993cacc-ccf4-11df-90ba-001cc4c002e0.html?mode=image - Ed KyleWrong heads
Then which "heads" should be guillotined? I'm interested in the specific names of the people allegedly responsible for the Constellation "fiasco". What specifically did these individuals do, or not do?
The initiators and implementers of ESAS. CXP had a sustainable path before ESAS. ESAS is the "fiasco".
Then which "heads" should be guillotined? I'm interested in the specific names of the people allegedly responsible for the Constellation "fiasco". What specifically did these individuals do, or not do?I have my own list. It has two names on it, and neither work, or worked, for NASA or its contractors. - Ed Kyle
Really? If anyone's head should roll (figuratively) for the CxP fiasco, I would imagine that Mike Griffin should top most people's list. I figure ramming through the Ares I/V architecture and spreading FUD about EELV's (black zone myths) should make him pretty high on any list. (for anyone who thinks heads should roll for CxP, of course - some seem to have great admiration for the man)
Quote from: Lars_J on 02/28/2011 11:39 pmReally? If anyone's head should roll (figuratively) for the CxP fiasco, I would imagine that Mike Griffin should top most people's list. I figure ramming through the Ares I/V architecture and spreading FUD about EELV's (black zone myths) should make him pretty high on any list. (for anyone who thinks heads should roll for CxP, of course - some seem to have great admiration for the man)Professor Griff is gone. However, his lieutenants are alive and well.
Professor Griff is gone. However, his lieutenants are alive and well.
I know he is gone - I was just reacting to Ed's opinion that the two people who should have been fired for CxP/ESAS did not include Mr. Griffin.
Quote from: Lars_J on 03/01/2011 02:24 amI know he is gone - I was just reacting to Ed's opinion that the two people who should have been fired for CxP/ESAS did not include Mr. Griffin.That's correct. The people responsible for this failed lunar landing program were Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama. Bush initiated the program, but never intended to pay for it (and never did). Obama hated it, said he would cancel it while running for office, and did cancel it once elected. The program failure had nothing whatsoever to do with rocket or spacecraft designs. It had to do with lack of national will - and lack of national leadership. Any program to land humans on the Moon will cost a stupendous amount of cash - far beyond anything we've seen provided to NASA since Apollo and certainly far beyond anything authorized for Constellation.Griffin took the dribble of funds provided and, while continuing to fly Shuttle (after ET redesign) and ISS, built a massive J-2X test stand, built an Ares launch pad, built and tested an Orion escape and recovery system, built and tested an Ares first stage, designed, built, and flew an Ares precursor, began to build Orion and Ares Upper Stage assembly factories, and saw J-2X proceed nearly to testing (planned to occur soon). The country thanked him for all of this service by sacking him. - Ed Kyle
Griffin took the dribble of funds provided and, while continuing to fly Shuttle (after ET redesign) and ISS, built a massive J-2X test stand, built an Ares launch pad, built and tested an Orion escape and recovery system, built and tested an Ares first stage, designed, built, and flew an Ares precursor, began to build Orion and Ares Upper Stage assembly factories, and saw J-2X proceed nearly to testing (planned to occur soon). The country thanked him for all of this service by sacking him.
Quote from: Lars_J on 03/01/2011 02:24 amI know he is gone - I was just reacting to Ed's opinion that the two people who should have been fired for CxP/ESAS did not include Mr. Griffin.That's correct. The people responsible for this failed lunar landing program were Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama. Bush initiated the program, but never intended to pay for it (and never did). Obama hated it, said he would cancel it while running for office, and did cancel it once elected. The program failure had nothing whatsoever to do with rocket or spacecraft designs. It had to do with lack of national will - and lack of national leadership. Any program to land humans on the Moon will cost a stupendous amount of cash - far beyond anything we've seen provided to NASA since Apollo and certainly far beyond anything authorized for Constellation.