Author Topic: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview  (Read 457436 times)

Offline spacetraveler

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #1040 on: 04/01/2011 03:52 am »
This article offers some perspective on how a shutdown would affect NASA.

http://www.space.com/10995-government-shutdown-budget-nasa.html

Offline northanger

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #1041 on: 04/01/2011 03:58 am »
Flying through the Furlough

Quote
Congress’ failure to put together a budget deal caused "nonessential" government workers to be furloughed from November 14 through November 19, 1995—right in the middle of the STS-74 flight.

Offline spacetraveler

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #1042 on: 04/01/2011 03:59 am »
You need the provision to label a department as essential in order to prevent shutdown.

Yes but this provision does not necessarily have to be statutory. It can in many cases come from internal agency determination or from OMB.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-government-shutdown-20110220,0,381812.story

Quote
The Office of Management and Budget, operated by the White House, now directs federal agencies to maintain shutdown contingency plans, with the chief concern being which operations should continue. But many experts express concern about such plans, saying they have yet to be tested.
« Last Edit: 04/01/2011 04:02 am by spacetraveler »

Online yg1968

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #1043 on: 04/01/2011 04:01 am »
You need the provision to label a department as essential in order to prevent shutdown.

Yes but this provision does not necessarily have to be statutory. It can in many cases come from internal agency determination or from OMB.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-government-shutdown-20110220,0,381812.story

See also:
http://www.wnyc.org/articles/its-free-country/2011/feb/28/whats-essential-government-service/
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34680.pdf

Online yg1968

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #1044 on: 04/01/2011 04:05 am »
The possibility of a government shutdown is very much on topic.

Offline Downix

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #1045 on: 04/01/2011 04:19 am »
You need the provision to label a department as essential in order to prevent shutdown.

Yes but this provision does not necessarily have to be statutory. It can in many cases come from internal agency determination or from OMB.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-government-shutdown-20110220,0,381812.story

Quote
The Office of Management and Budget, operated by the White House, now directs federal agencies to maintain shutdown contingency plans, with the chief concern being which operations should continue. But many experts express concern about such plans, saying they have yet to be tested.
There is a process for internal agency determination, which requires approval by Congress.  As of yet, Congress has not approved all of these determinations, including the one for the operations in the middle east. According to my friends on the hill, the number which are pending outnumber those which have been processed.

**edit** I checked with my fathers old boss.  The agencies may implement their unapproved plans if given an executive order to do so.  This is only a temporary measure at best.
« Last Edit: 04/01/2011 04:29 am by Downix »
chuck - Toilet paper has no real value? Try living with 5 other adults for 6 months in a can with no toilet paper. Man oh man. Toilet paper would be worth it's weight in gold!

Offline Andy USA

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #1046 on: 04/01/2011 04:28 am »
Clearly this community works better if it doesn't take an hour to report a member who's clearly being disruptive and uncivil and instead take time out of your busy day then responding to said member, because you'll only lose that post too when the member's posts are purged.

Think about it. The report tab is there for a reason.
« Last Edit: 04/01/2011 04:34 am by Andy USA »

Offline Jeff Bingham

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #1047 on: 04/01/2011 04:59 am »
Flying through the Furlough

Quote
Congress’ failure to put together a budget deal caused "nonessential" government workers to be furloughed from November 14 through November 19, 1995—right in the middle of the STS-74 flight.

It should also be noted that a large team of ISS management and technical personnel were engaged in negotiations with the Russians down at JSC during that shutdown. They were all declared "essential", including their administrative support personnel, public affairs, and legislative affairs liaison folks (I know, because it was ME). They/we all kept working and in the end with the resumption of normal funding, all paychecks were received for all work conducted. This talk of a shut-down meaning "ipso facto" that STS-135 is dead is uninformed speculation and nonsense. It WILL fly. Period.
Offering only my own views and experience as a long-time "Space Cadet."

Offline STS Tony

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #1048 on: 04/01/2011 05:04 am »
Thanks 51D! And that's the way to end that speculation! :)

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #1049 on: 04/01/2011 05:13 am »
There's no reason for everyone to panic, except members of Congress.

This is "Starve the beast." And if it comes to a head, there will be political consequences, just like last time.

But NASA and ISS will still survive. The rest depends on Congress.

Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline pathfinder_01

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #1050 on: 04/01/2011 05:24 am »


It should also be noted that a large team of ISS management and technical personnel were engaged in negotiations with the Russians down at JSC during that shutdown. They were all declared "essential", including their administrative support personnel, public affairs, and legislative affairs liaison folks (I know, because it was ME). They/we all kept working and in the end with the resumption of normal funding, all paychecks were received for all work conducted. This talk of a shut-down meaning "ipso facto" that STS-135 is dead is uninformed speculation and nonsense. It WILL fly. Period.


Ah there is a difference between flying sts-135 and the stuff you mentioned. Negotiations between countries can be seen as essential(after all reschudling everything would be a pain in the neck). Launching a particular shuttle flight might not be.
« Last Edit: 04/01/2011 05:24 am by pathfinder_01 »

Offline FinalFrontier

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #1051 on: 04/01/2011 06:11 am »
Flying through the Furlough

Quote
Congress’ failure to put together a budget deal caused "nonessential" government workers to be furloughed from November 14 through November 19, 1995—right in the middle of the STS-74 flight.

It should also be noted that a large team of ISS management and technical personnel were engaged in negotiations with the Russians down at JSC during that shutdown. They were all declared "essential", including their administrative support personnel, public affairs, and legislative affairs liaison folks (I know, because it was ME). They/we all kept working and in the end with the resumption of normal funding, all paychecks were received for all work conducted. This talk of a shut-down meaning "ipso facto" that STS-135 is dead is uninformed speculation and nonsense. It WILL fly. Period.

what have you heard thus far regarding cuts in fy 2011. I have heard some things but your more in the loop by far then me.
3-30-2017: The start of a great future
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Offline northanger

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #1052 on: 04/01/2011 06:16 am »
It WILL fly. Period.

 ;D
go STS-135!

Offline Jeff Bingham

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #1053 on: 04/01/2011 12:41 pm »


It should also be noted that a large team of ISS management and technical personnel were engaged in negotiations with the Russians down at JSC during that shutdown. They were all declared "essential", including their administrative support personnel, public affairs, and legislative affairs liaison folks (I know, because it was ME). They/we all kept working and in the end with the resumption of normal funding, all paychecks were received for all work conducted. This talk of a shut-down meaning "ipso facto" that STS-135 is dead is uninformed speculation and nonsense. It WILL fly. Period.


Ah there is a difference between flying sts-135 and the stuff you mentioned. Negotiations between countries can be seen as essential(after all reschudling everything would be a pain in the neck). Launching a particular shuttle flight might not be.

The sustainment and protection of a $100 billion national asset, not to mention the well-being of the onboard crew are viewed by the Congress as VERY essential. The successful conduct and completion of STS-135 IS an essential government activity necessary to meet that objective and WILL be protected against any untoward effects of a temporary government shutdown.
Offering only my own views and experience as a long-time "Space Cadet."

Offline SkyKing

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #1054 on: 04/01/2011 01:09 pm »


It should also be noted that a large team of ISS management and technical personnel were engaged in negotiations with the Russians down at JSC during that shutdown. They were all declared "essential", including their administrative support personnel, public affairs, and legislative affairs liaison folks (I know, because it was ME). They/we all kept working and in the end with the resumption of normal funding, all paychecks were received for all work conducted. This talk of a shut-down meaning "ipso facto" that STS-135 is dead is uninformed speculation and nonsense. It WILL fly. Period.


Ah there is a difference between flying sts-135 and the stuff you mentioned. Negotiations between countries can be seen as essential(after all reschudling everything would be a pain in the neck). Launching a particular shuttle flight might not be.

The sustainment and protection of a $100 billion national asset, not to mention the well-being of the onboard crew are viewed by the Congress as VERY essential. The successful conduct and completion of STS-135 IS an essential government activity necessary to meet that objective and WILL be protected against any untoward effects of a temporary government shutdown.

so you think that the politics of 135 are so important that The Congress will as a body direct that the effort continue as the government shuts down?

Sky King 

Offline Carl G

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #1055 on: 04/01/2011 01:15 pm »
Did you not read what he said above, Sky King? Looks like you rushed your response, so I have to ask.

Offline SkyKing

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #1056 on: 04/01/2011 01:25 pm »
Did you not read what he said above, Sky King? Looks like you rushed your response, so I have to ask.

I read what he wrote.  It just strikes me as sort of "incredulous" that the Congress as a body which if the government shuts down is defined as essentially dysfunctional because it cannot pass a CR at least...would come together as a "body" to agree on a shuttle flight. 

It just strikes me as odd that if they agreed on very little that this would be a source of agreement enough to "force" spending.

Sky King

Offline Jeff Bingham

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #1057 on: 04/01/2011 01:36 pm »
Did you not read what he said above, Sky King? Looks like you rushed your response, so I have to ask.

I read what he wrote.  It just strikes me as sort of "incredulous" that the Congress as a body which if the government shuts down is defined as essentially dysfunctional because it cannot pass a CR at least...would come together as a "body" to agree on a shuttle flight. 

It just strikes me as odd that if they agreed on very little that this would be a source of agreement enough to "force" spending.

Sky King

That's because you do not apparently understand how the Congress functions and the tools available to it at the Committee of jurisdiction level to ensure that agencies within those jurisdictions function and operate in an manner deemed desirable or necessary by the leadership of those Committees, outside of formal legislation; the Congress "as a whole" does not have to act in many cases; but I'm not going to go into a civics or "Congress 101" discussion here. As you said...we shall see; my point in responding initially was simply to let other folks know that there are somewhat more "informed opinions" that differ from what you were predicting or asserting.
Offering only my own views and experience as a long-time "Space Cadet."

Offline SkyKing

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #1058 on: 04/01/2011 01:43 pm »
Did you not read what he said above, Sky King? Looks like you rushed your response, so I have to ask.

I read what he wrote.  It just strikes me as sort of "incredulous" that the Congress as a body which if the government shuts down is defined as essentially dysfunctional because it cannot pass a CR at least...would come together as a "body" to agree on a shuttle flight. 

It just strikes me as odd that if they agreed on very little that this would be a source of agreement enough to "force" spending.

Sky King

That's because you do not apparently understand how the Congress functions and the tools available to it at the Committee of jurisdiction level to ensure that agencies within those jurisdictions function and operate in an manner deemed desirable or necessary by the leadership of those Committees, outside of formal legislation; the Congress "as a whole" does not have to act in many cases; but I'm not going to go into a civics or "Congress 101" discussion here. As you said...we shall see; my point in responding initially was simply to let other folks know that there are somewhat more "informed opinions" that differ from what you were predicting or asserting.

You didnt say "Congressional staffs" or "leadership of the Committees" you wrote "are viewed by the Congress as VERY essential"

we can all teach civics to each other, starting with the fact that all agencies of the federal government work for The President of  The United States.  Charlie (or General Bolden or NASA) does not take orders from Congressional staffers and the folks who work at NASA take orders from The Administrator.

but as you say...we will see.

Sky King

Offline robertross

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #1059 on: 04/01/2011 01:45 pm »

but as you say...we will see.

Sky King

Watch your tongue...that seemed quite snarky to our esteemed member

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