"Launch Complex 2" seems to be just a Rocket Lab in-house identifier. MARS has "Launch Pad 0A" (Antares) and "Launch Pad 0B" (Minotaur) and on its web site identifies the new Electron pad as "Launch Pad 0C". https://www.vaspace.org/our-facilitiesWallops Flight Facility already has/had a "Launch Area 1" and a "Launch Area 2" which were used for sounding rockets. "Launch Area 3" handled Scout back in the day. And so on. - Ed Kyle
Why can't they launch all four cubesats in one go?
Edit: It occurred to me after thinking for a while that there is one potential difference: how long between launch and performing the trajectory-correction maneuver. If you're just trying to dodge populated areas, you can change as soon as you're past them, but if you're trying to hit a lower inclination than your launch latitude, you need to wait at least until you're under the appropriate latitude, if not until you hit the equator (I don't understand orbital mechanics enough to know whether making the change at the equator is extra efficient). The longer you wait to make the change, the faster you're going and the harder it is to change direction, so I could see "hitting extra-low inclinations" costing more than simple population avoidance maneuvers in general.
Quote from: trimeta on 11/23/2022 03:33 pmEdit: It occurred to me after thinking for a while that there is one potential difference: how long between launch and performing the trajectory-correction maneuver. If you're just trying to dodge populated areas, you can change as soon as you're past them, but if you're trying to hit a lower inclination than your launch latitude, you need to wait at least until you're under the appropriate latitude, if not until you hit the equator (I don't understand orbital mechanics enough to know whether making the change at the equator is extra efficient). The longer you wait to make the change, the faster you're going and the harder it is to change direction, so I could see "hitting extra-low inclinations" costing more than simple population avoidance maneuvers in general.Trying to plane change at time of launch is inefficient (you waste energy gaining velocity you then need to waste more energy cancelling out again), plane changes are most efficient at apoapsis. You launch to a transfer orbit at the minimum inclination achievable (38°) then perform the plane change from that transfer orbit. The higher you can get your apoapsis (and therefor the lower the orbital velocity at apoapsis) the less energy needed for the plane change - but the more energy needed for the eccentricity change, so there is a tradeoff. This is why many GSO launches launch to supersynchronous GTO transfer orbits in order to perform the plane change with minimum propellant usage. A dogleg is not a plane change, it is a temporary shifting of ground track (or more accurately, steering of the IIP).
Quote from: edzieba on 11/24/2022 11:07 amQuote from: trimeta on 11/23/2022 03:33 pmEdit: It occurred to me after thinking for a while that there is one potential difference: how long between launch and performing the trajectory-correction maneuver. If you're just trying to dodge populated areas, you can change as soon as you're past them, but if you're trying to hit a lower inclination than your launch latitude, you need to wait at least until you're under the appropriate latitude, if not until you hit the equator (I don't understand orbital mechanics enough to know whether making the change at the equator is extra efficient). The longer you wait to make the change, the faster you're going and the harder it is to change direction, so I could see "hitting extra-low inclinations" costing more than simple population avoidance maneuvers in general.Trying to plane change at time of launch is inefficient (you waste energy gaining velocity you then need to waste more energy cancelling out again), plane changes are most efficient at apoapsis. You launch to a transfer orbit at the minimum inclination achievable (38°) then perform the plane change from that transfer orbit. The higher you can get your apoapsis (and therefor the lower the orbital velocity at apoapsis) the less energy needed for the plane change - but the more energy needed for the eccentricity change, so there is a tradeoff. This is why many GSO launches launch to supersynchronous GTO transfer orbits in order to perform the plane change with minimum propellant usage. A dogleg is not a plane change, it is a temporary shifting of ground track (or more accurately, steering of the IIP).It still seems to me like any maneuver which changes the angle the rocket is traveling at will change the orbital inclination, and thus plane, relative to where the rocket would have gone absent said maneuver.
No. A dogleg does not change the inclination you can reach from a launch site by any appreciable value. It minimises the risk of dropping debris over population areas, but if those keep-out areas were not present then you could launch directly to that inclination form the same launch site. The velocity you add as part of the dogleg manoeuvre almost always ends up as part of the velocity component of the final orbit. A plane change is fundamentally different. You cannot launch from a 38° latitude launch site to a 30° inclined orbit no matter what direction you point the rocket. If you try and 'fly towards the equator' then turn 90° to point towards your desired inclination, you need to cancel out the 'northwards' velocity you gained in doing so. That means you waste energy gaining velocity and then cancelling that velocity again.
Quote from: edzieba on 11/24/2022 12:19 pmNo. A dogleg does not change the inclination you can reach from a launch site by any appreciable value. It minimises the risk of dropping debris over population areas, but if those keep-out areas were not present then you could launch directly to that inclination form the same launch site. The velocity you add as part of the dogleg manoeuvre almost always ends up as part of the velocity component of the final orbit. A plane change is fundamentally different. You cannot launch from a 38° latitude launch site to a 30° inclined orbit no matter what direction you point the rocket. If you try and 'fly towards the equator' then turn 90° to point towards your desired inclination, you need to cancel out the 'northwards' velocity you gained in doing so. That means you waste energy gaining velocity and then cancelling that velocity again.I didn't say it changes the inclination you can reach. I said it changes the inclination you would be headed to if you didn't use the dogleg. If the rocket initially launches at 40°, and then 20 miles downrange changes to be going to 50°, it will end up in a different orbital plane vs. if it continued at 40°. Yes, it could also have reached the 50° inclination by going straight and not worrying about the ground track, but it didn't, to avoid overflying populated areas. So in this case, the dogleg changed where the rocket ended up.Again, I'm not saying that the dogleg "plane changed" because it enabled accessing an inclination otherwise inaccessible due to latitude. That inclination could have been reached without the dogleg, by just overflying land. But it wasn't, because the rocket didn't start out aiming for the correct inclination. The dogleg changed where it ended up, relative to its initial trajectory. What do you call it if the initial trajectory went to one plane, then something happened to change it to another one?
Quote from: trimeta on 11/23/2022 03:33 pmEdit: It occurred to me after thinking for a while that there is one potential difference: how long between launch and performing the trajectory-correction maneuver. If you're just trying to dodge populated areas, you can change as soon as you're past them, but if you're trying to hit a lower inclination than your launch latitude, you need to wait at least until you're under the appropriate latitude, if not until you hit the equator (I don't understand orbital mechanics enough to know whether making the change at the equator is extra efficient). The longer you wait to make the change, the faster you're going and the harder it is to change direction, so I could see "hitting extra-low inclinations" costing more than simple population avoidance maneuvers in general.Trying to plane change at time of launch is inefficient (you waste energy gaining velocity you then need to waste more energy cancelling out again), plane changes are most efficient at apoapsis. You launch to a transfer orbit at the minimum inclination achievable (38°) then perform the plane change from that transfer orbit. The higher you can get your apoapsis (and therefor the lower the orbital velocity at apoapsis) the less energy needed for the plane change - but the more energy needed for the eccentricity change, so there is a tradeoff. This is why many GSO launches launch to supersynchronous GTO transfer orbits in order to perform the plane change with minimum propellant usage.
From a 185 km insertion orbit, the required delta-V to go to a 550 km circular orbit with an 8º plane change (38 to 30 degrees) is 1088.1 m/s. Enter initial perigee height (km): 185Enter initial apogee height (km): 185Enter required inclination change (deg): 8Enter required perigee height (km): 550Enter required apogee height (km): 550Burn at 185.0 km: theta1 = 2.33 deg, dv1 = 335.8 m/sBurn at 550.0 km: theta2 = 5.67 deg, dv2 = 752.3 m/sdv = 1088.1 m/s
Quote from: trimeta on 11/24/2022 01:31 pmQuote from: edzieba on 11/24/2022 12:19 pmNo. A dogleg does not change the inclination you can reach from a launch site by any appreciable value. It minimises the risk of dropping debris over population areas, but if those keep-out areas were not present then you could launch directly to that inclination form the same launch site. The velocity you add as part of the dogleg manoeuvre almost always ends up as part of the velocity component of the final orbit. A plane change is fundamentally different. You cannot launch from a 38° latitude launch site to a 30° inclined orbit no matter what direction you point the rocket. If you try and 'fly towards the equator' then turn 90° to point towards your desired inclination, you need to cancel out the 'northwards' velocity you gained in doing so. That means you waste energy gaining velocity and then cancelling that velocity again.I didn't say it changes the inclination you can reach. I said it changes the inclination you would be headed to if you didn't use the dogleg. If the rocket initially launches at 40°, and then 20 miles downrange changes to be going to 50°, it will end up in a different orbital plane vs. if it continued at 40°. Yes, it could also have reached the 50° inclination by going straight and not worrying about the ground track, but it didn't, to avoid overflying populated areas. So in this case, the dogleg changed where the rocket ended up.Again, I'm not saying that the dogleg "plane changed" because it enabled accessing an inclination otherwise inaccessible due to latitude. That inclination could have been reached without the dogleg, by just overflying land. But it wasn't, because the rocket didn't start out aiming for the correct inclination. The dogleg changed where it ended up, relative to its initial trajectory. What do you call it if the initial trajectory went to one plane, then something happened to change it to another one?You've missed the entire second half of the post, which explains the critical difference between a dogleg and a plane change.
Quote from: edzieba on 11/24/2022 03:28 pmQuote from: trimeta on 11/24/2022 01:31 pmQuote from: edzieba on 11/24/2022 12:19 pmNo. A dogleg does not change the inclination you can reach from a launch site by any appreciable value. It minimises the risk of dropping debris over population areas, but if those keep-out areas were not present then you could launch directly to that inclination form the same launch site. The velocity you add as part of the dogleg manoeuvre almost always ends up as part of the velocity component of the final orbit. A plane change is fundamentally different. You cannot launch from a 38° latitude launch site to a 30° inclined orbit no matter what direction you point the rocket. If you try and 'fly towards the equator' then turn 90° to point towards your desired inclination, you need to cancel out the 'northwards' velocity you gained in doing so. That means you waste energy gaining velocity and then cancelling that velocity again.I didn't say it changes the inclination you can reach. I said it changes the inclination you would be headed to if you didn't use the dogleg. If the rocket initially launches at 40°, and then 20 miles downrange changes to be going to 50°, it will end up in a different orbital plane vs. if it continued at 40°. Yes, it could also have reached the 50° inclination by going straight and not worrying about the ground track, but it didn't, to avoid overflying populated areas. So in this case, the dogleg changed where the rocket ended up.Again, I'm not saying that the dogleg "plane changed" because it enabled accessing an inclination otherwise inaccessible due to latitude. That inclination could have been reached without the dogleg, by just overflying land. But it wasn't, because the rocket didn't start out aiming for the correct inclination. The dogleg changed where it ended up, relative to its initial trajectory. What do you call it if the initial trajectory went to one plane, then something happened to change it to another one?You've missed the entire second half of the post, which explains the critical difference between a dogleg and a plane change.I agree there are two different types of maneuvers. I'm saying that both of them change the plane. Maybe formally, only one is called a "plane change." But just because you could reach a given inclination from a particular launch site without any sort of maneuver (if you were willing to overfly populated area), if for one specific launch the initial heading does not go to the inclination you actually want (because you're performing a dogleg maneuver), then changing your heading later changes the plane. And no amount of telling me "it's only a plane change if you use it to hit an inclination that would otherwise have been physically impossible from that latitude" will make me think that changing the ground track of the rocket has no impact on the plane. If you launched due east from a 38° north latitude launch site, then 50 miles later turned the rocket due north, are you going to end up in a 38° inclination orbit? The fact that you could have aimed the rocket due north when you launched it doesn't change that for this launch, you didn't.(And yes, that particular example is especially silly. The example isn't supposed to be efficient or directly represent any sort of realistic trajectory that one would ever use. It's supposed to be an extreme example to illustrate what I'm getting at.)
Quote from: edkyle99 on 11/23/2022 08:27 pm"Launch Complex 2" seems to be just a Rocket Lab in-house identifier. MARS has "Launch Pad 0A" (Antares) and "Launch Pad 0B" (Minotaur) and on its web site identifies the new Electron pad as "Launch Pad 0C". https://www.vaspace.org/our-facilitiesWallops Flight Facility already has/had a "Launch Area 1" and a "Launch Area 2" which were used for sounding rockets. "Launch Area 3" handled Scout back in the day. And so on. - Ed Kyle When SpaceX took over CCAFS Launch Complex 13 to build their landing zone, they renamed it LZ-1 (and later added LZ-2). I view Rocket Lab Launch Complex 2 the same way: they built it, they get to name it, even if that's inconsistent with the name scheme used by other nearby pads.If it helps, they're consistent about saying "Launch Complex," so it's distinct from any nearby Launch Areas.
A dogleg IS a plane change.Period
Plane changes are more efficient when done at lower velocity. That means at apogee (apoapsis in general) not perigee. That’s why supra-synchronous transfer orbits work well.Or it means soon after launch like the gravity turn from getting out of the atmosphere to gaining orbital velocity.All energy is not equal between stages.
Photon may have capacity to change altitude and self-deorbit, but it’s not enough for much of a plane change.
The “roll programs” are completely separate, distinct from any change in direction. Those are to simplify internal guidance calculations.
It still seems to me like any maneuver which changes the angle the rocket is traveling at will change the orbital inclination, and thus plane, relative to where the rocket would have gone absent said maneuver.
Quote from: trimeta on 11/24/2022 12:05 pmIt still seems to me like any maneuver which changes the angle the rocket is traveling at will change the orbital inclination, and thus plane, relative to where the rocket would have gone absent said maneuver. The mathematician in me forces me to say this is not true that a change in flight angle always results in a change in inclination. For example, suppose you launch from the cape. When you reach the equator your trajectory is 28.5 degrees to the equator, going south. Then suppose you do an enormous plane change, until you are pointing 28.5 degrees north of the equator. Both orbits have exactly the same inclination. So a huge change in angle, 57 degrees, results in no change in inclination. Of course this is an enormously expensive and completely pointless maneuver, since the same resulting orbit can be obtained simply be launching earlier or later. But it's mathematically possible.More practically, any burn that is within the plane of the existing orbit (but not straight ahead or straight back) will change the direction of flight without changing the inclination or orbital plane. It can change the apogee, perigee, eccentricity, and so on, and is often used for this purpose.