Starship V3

[lightleviathan]

I realized that there was no thread for discussing the upcoming iteration of Starship, V3 despite there being one V4, so I decided to make it.

[TomH]

V3 is what used to be called V2. We should have had V1.5. Under the previous nomenclature, a V2 ship was plunked down atop a V1 booster and that somehow was given the name V2. What originally was V2 became V3 and the original V3 became V4.

[xvel]

V3 is what used to be called V2. We should have had V1.5. Under the previous nomenclature, a V2 ship was plunked down atop a V1 booster and that somehow was given the name V2. What originally was V2 became V3 and the original V3 became V4.

Originally it was: "Starship 1", "Starship 2", "Starship 3" then naming changed to "V1", "V2", "V3", "V4" and correspondence is like this:

"V1" - "Starship 1"
"V2" - "Starship 1.5"
"V3" - "Starship 2"
"V4" - "Starship 3"

Starship "V2" is a blend of originally planned "Starship 2" and old "Starship 1", from the limited publicly available information looks like it wasn't planned in first half of 2024, but my guess is that delays in raptor 3 and booster development caused them to try to build this intermediate version of the ship to test some aspects of new ship design.
As we all know, it didn't work out too well until this flight, so "V3" design may be unfortunatelly not that great initially.

[meekGee]

This entire argument is of so little consequence...

I vaguely maybe remember the v1.5 nomenclature, but IIRC by the time of the first (doomed) flight, it was already labeled v2, and the ship-that-will-carry-v3-engines was named v3

I don't think any changes were a result of the failures, because of the timing.  I also don't think Musk shares or ever shared the doom and gloom shared among some of the spectators...  He's been through setbacks before, I think he saw this as one design oversight and a sequence of 3 mostly bad lucks.

V2 is vindicated now, one more flight, and onwards to 3.  Can't happen soon enough, the doomsday cult has had its time in the sun, I'm hoping not to repeat...

[dnavas]

...the doomsday cult has had its time in the sun, I'm hoping not to repeat...

As a lifetime member in the doomsday club (I had a song written about me by a former coworker to that exact effect), I would like to say that some of us live to be proved wrong.  For the love of god, may the V3 designs be the same order (or more) of improvement that we got moving from Raptor1 to Raptor2 (and not directionally similar to ship1 to ship2 tyvm).  Who would want a repeat of 2025?  Ugh.

[wannamoonbase]

This entire argument is of so little consequence...

I vaguely maybe remember the v1.5 nomenclature, but IIRC by the time of the first (doomed) flight, it was already labeled v2, and the ship-that-will-carry-v3-engines was named v3

I don't think any changes were a result of the failures, because of the timing.  I also don't think Musk shares or ever shared the doom and gloom shared among some of the spectators...  He's been through setbacks before, I think he saw this as one design oversight and a sequence of 3 mostly bad lucks.

V2 is vindicated now, one more flight, and onwards to 3.  Can't happen soon enough, the doomsday cult has had its time in the sun, I'm hoping not to repeat...

Agreed that it is of little consequence. 

Each vehicle has enough changes from the previous one anyway.  None of this is stable design at this point. 

[Vultur]

I wonder if V3 is intended to be the HLS Starship's base. The recent tweet said V4 coming in 2027, but it seems likely NASA would want the HLS Starship to be the same basic model as the HLS Demo Starship.

[meekGee]

Is this thread worth maintaining? Should I simply lock it? We can discuss various versions all night long. But why? Please provide a clue to keep this thread active.

Oh it's definitely worth it, just not as a vehicle for discussing version numbers.

The year of V3 is just about to begin!

Oki dokke

That was tongue in cheek over the top...

[mikelepage]

I wonder if V3 is intended to be the HLS Starship's base. The recent tweet said V4 coming in 2027, but it seems likely NASA would want the HLS Starship to be the same basic model as the HLS Demo Starship.

In the on-orbit fueling thread there were a few scenarios where it was handy that the tankers/depots were bigger than HLS. Having it be shorter would be advantageous for the tipping-lander problem too.

[catdlr]

V3 test article B18.3 images

🏳️‍🌈Alejandro Alcantarilla Romera (Alex)
@Alexphysics13
This should be the forward dome and interstage test article. Really neat that SpaceX is waiting on all of this to be put together and tested before flying any Block 3 vehicles.

🏳️‍🌈Alejandro Alcantarilla Romera (Alex)
@Alexphysics13

Don't be surprised if it takes a long while for Block 3 to fly. These test tanks aren't even put together yet and there needs to be a round of testing following this so... yeah, let's see what happens.

https://x.com/Alexphysics13/status/1961937858479943852

[catdlr]

Elon Musk

@elonmusk
·
Replying to
@SciGuySpace
SpaceX will do orbital refilling several times next year with Starship V3.

Because we are simply docking with ourself, this is a much easier problem than docking with the Space Station, which SpaceX already does several times a year.

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1963333192938856662

[catdlr]

For those wanting to find out what's in store for V3, read this article.

Ars Technica@arstechnica
SpaceX’s lesson from last Starship flight? “We need to seal the tiles.”

ARTICLE:  SpaceX’s lesson from last Starship flight? “We need to seal the tiles.”

SpaceX is targeting an orbital Starship flight with a next-gen vehicle next year.
Writer:  Stephen Clark – Sep 9, 2025 11:43 AM

https://x.com/arstechnica/status/1965500974606512313

NOTABLE QUOTE:

Going to orbit
"Next year, we step up to another version of both ship and booster, called V3 (Version 3)," Gerstenmaier said. "It also has a new Raptor engine underneath, with more performance than the previous ones. So we'll fly V3 (suborbital) first, and then if that's successful, then we'll probably go orbital after that with the next V3."

That would mean an orbital flight no sooner than Flight 13. [/quote]

[DanClemmensen]

For those wanting to find out what's in store for V3, read this article.

Ars Technica@arstechnica
SpaceX’s lesson from last Starship flight? “We need to seal the tiles.”

ARTICLE:  SpaceX’s lesson from last Starship flight? “We need to seal the tiles.”

For those who did not read the article, the headline is slightly misleading. It's not about sealing individual tiles against moisture. It's about filling the gaps between tiles to keep the reentry plasma from reaching the ablative backup layer. In particular, they used their neat new "crush crunch wrap" approach for most of the tiles, and it worked.  "Crush Crunch wrap" is that fabric-looking stuff that is installed under each tile individually with its edges sticking out of the gap all the way around. After pushing the tile down on its pins, the stuff that sticks out is trimmed flush. Apparently, this is quick to install and can fly multiple times without per-flight maintenance.

[catdlr]

For those wanting to find out what's in store for V3, read this article.

Ars Technica@arstechnica
SpaceX’s lesson from last Starship flight? “We need to seal the tiles.”

ARTICLE:  SpaceX’s lesson from last Starship flight? “We need to seal the tiles.”

For those who did not read the article, the headline is slightly misleading. It's not about sealing individual tiles against moisture. It's about filling the gaps between tiles to keep the reentry plasma from reaching the ablative backup layer. In particular, they used their neat new "crush wrap" approach for most of the tiles, and it worked.  "Crush wrap" is that fabric-looking stuff that is installed under each tile indivitually with its edges sticking out of the gap all the way around. After pushing the tile down on its pins, the stuff that sticks out is trimmed flush. Apparently, this is quick to install and can fly multiple times without per-flight maintenance.

I've seen this being installed on the ship.  Let me find an image, probably from a ship gazer.

[wannamoonbase]

For those wanting to find out what's in store for V3, read this article.

Ars Technica@arstechnica
SpaceX’s lesson from last Starship flight? “We need to seal the tiles.”

ARTICLE:  SpaceX’s lesson from last Starship flight? “We need to seal the tiles.”

For those who did not read the article, the headline is slightly misleading. It's not about sealing individual tiles against moisture. It's about filling the gaps between tiles to keep the reentry plasma from reaching the ablative backup layer. In particular, they used their neat new "crush wrap" approach for most of the tiles, and it worked.  "Crush wrap" is that fabric-looking stuff that is installed under each tile indivitually with its edges sticking out of the gap all the way around. After pushing the tile down on its pins, the stuff that sticks out is trimmed flush. Apparently, this is quick to install and can fly multiple times without per-flight maintenance.

*they think it can fly multiple times.

It's encouraging that they think they have a path.  The biggest take away from the story I think was that they are going to be moving more toward the vehicle they want to fly in V3 (so less experiments and trials)

I don't see a big rush for Flight 11 considering that Pad 2, Raptor, Ship and Booster have months to go to be ready. 

[catdlr]

For those wanting to find out what's in store for V3, read this article.

Ars Technica@arstechnica
SpaceX’s lesson from last Starship flight? “We need to seal the tiles.”

ARTICLE:  SpaceX’s lesson from last Starship flight? “We need to seal the tiles.”

For those who did not read the article, the headline is slightly misleading. It's not about sealing individual tiles against moisture. It's about filling the gaps between tiles to keep the reentry plasma from reaching the ablative backup layer. In particular, they used their neat new "crush wrap" approach for most of the tiles, and it worked.  "Crush wrap" is that fabric-looking stuff that is installed under each tile indivitually with its edges sticking out of the gap all the way around. After pushing the tile down on its pins, the stuff that sticks out is trimmed flush. Apparently, this is quick to install and can fly multiple times without per-flight maintenance.

I've seen this being installed on the ship.  Let me find an image, probably from a Starship Gazer.

Presented here in this image are two samples of the specified tile type featuring the "crunch wrap." The pre-cut white fabric backing will fold between the tiles, creating a two-layer fabric structure between each tile. Alternatively, they can be arranged to alternate; in one configuration, the fabric will lie flat, and in the other, it will be installed between two tiles, causing the fabric to fold upwards and serve as a gap filler between each tile.

The second photo illustrates two tiles butting up to each other in the RED-highlighted box

Photo Credit: Starship Gazer

[JH]

I think the quote in article refers to it as crunch wrap rather than crush wrap.

[catdlr]

I think the quote in article refers to it as crunch wrap rather than crush wrap.

Corrected it.

[steveleach]

I like this quote...

we've been able to essentially show through flight that we have more stability than either CFD (Computational Fluid Dynamics) or the wind tunnels show that we have,

It highlights one of the advantages of their iterative, empirical, hardware-rich development process.

[Metalskin]

I thought that they were going to test the cooling film approach, was that not tested in flight 10?