Author Topic: Starship IFT-2 Onboard camera footage / Camera discussion  (Read 8224 times)

Offline Starmang10

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New thread because the current IFT-2 thread is currently becoming this thread.

Basically, just discuss onboard footage and other things related to the cameras.  Don't know really.
« Last Edit: 12/06/2023 01:12 pm by Starmang10 »
hi! I am a 13 year old neurodivergent individual, although I can understand most things adults can too. I  have been interested in space since I was 5. Although I still have a lot to learn, I try my hardest to understand others, although sometimes I might not, so please correct me if I do not listen to others. thanks!

Online eriblo

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I can believe the outside video was moved from the primary telemetry link to Starlink, and that Starlink didn't work, so that they don't have the outside video. The outside video isn't super important, as tracking cameras cover most of the same stuff.

But I can't believe they would move the video from the propellant tanks from the primary telemetry link. That would be really useful data from this test. If anything, I think they would send it on both links, to maximize the chances of it getting through.

So, maybe they don't have any video they would like to show to the public. They have shown the propellant tanks in the past, but it's never been my impression they have wanted to. It's been more accidental.
I can certainly agree with that
The argument against it is that you can probably fit well resolved temperature and pressure readings in every engine propellant inlet as well as any other point of interest in the tanks into the bandwidth of one video feed. Considering that Starship is a modern launch vehicle with a record engine count it might well have one of if not the highest telemetry bandwidths ever. Starlink is certainly capable of covering that and video as well but they might have to prioritize the channels sent over the standard transmitters.
I'm not sure I understand how this is an argument against it. If they moved "low priority" video to Starlink, and the Starlink connection fails, you'd still have the high priority video and all the data.

Or are you thinking that they might only have had Starlink?
No, I was mentioning the possibility that all the video was low priority and thus moved to Starlink. Dedicated sensors are always going to give better measurements with much lower bandwidth requirements but video does potentially have the benefit of less hardware (and perhaps some advantage for catching unexpected things).

That said I got the impression from the FCC filings that Starship launches have had significantly more (non Starlink) telemetry bandwidth than say a Falcon 9 launch so a loss of all video might be more likely to be caused by some internal data stream handling error.

Offline ZachS09

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New thread because the current IFT-2 thread is currently becoming this thread.

Basically, just discuss onboard footage and other things related to the cameras.  Don't know really.

Good call.
Liftoff for St. Jude's! Go Dragon, Go Falcon, Godspeed Inspiration4!

Offline edzieba

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Worth remembering that IFT-1 had some GSE that OFT-2 did not: two big honking tracking & telemetry dishes at Boca Chica.
Not having on-board video on the livestream may have been as simple as a Starlink dropout cutting off IP video, combined with getting video feeds from the downrange tracking stations deMUX back to the BC local video MUX being too much of a headache to bother with just as a backup for the livestream. And since the single-video-feed-rotating-camera-view link would be focused on engineering cameras (e.g. tank internals) that are either proprietary, potentially ITAR controlled, or both, then the extra effort of having someone hovering over a 'cut video now' button to make sure only external camera views made their way onto the livestream may just not have been worth bothering with. Could even just be that the Starlink dishes got accidentally unplugged during one of the chine R&Rs prior to launch, and videos for broadcast were way waaaay down the priority queue from other IFT-2 objectives so fixing them was not worth considering delaying the launch for.

Online catdlr

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I assume it should be posted in this thread when we get the NASA footage from their high-flying jet.
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Offline steveleach

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I assume it should be posted in this thread when we get the NASA footage from their high-flying jet.
I'd say not. This thread is really about video streams from on the ship itself (and specifically why we didn't see any).

Offline Starmang10

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It can also be about WB-57 footage too
hi! I am a 13 year old neurodivergent individual, although I can understand most things adults can too. I  have been interested in space since I was 5. Although I still have a lot to learn, I try my hardest to understand others, although sometimes I might not, so please correct me if I do not listen to others. thanks!

Offline jpo234

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The new YouTube video contains onboard snippets at 0:51:
« Last Edit: 12/07/2023 05:23 pm by jpo234 »
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline koszuta

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The new YouTube video contains onboard snippets at 0:51:

But only clips from that one lifting point camera afaict :(
« Last Edit: 12/07/2023 05:24 pm by koszuta »
Nate Koszuta

Online Vettedrmr

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The new YouTube video contains onboard snippets at 0:51:

That final snippet you took (1:17-18) shows something venting from the side of SS.  My guess is a tank venting from the autogenous pressurization system.  Any other ideas?

Thanks for sharing, and have a good one,
Mike
Aviation/space enthusiast, retired control system SW engineer, doesn't know anything!

Offline steveleach

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The new YouTube video contains onboard snippets at 0:51:
Yep, so that kills the theory that they lost the video feed downlink anyway.

Online Eer

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The new YouTube video contains onboard snippets at 0:51:

That final snippet you took (1:17-18) shows something venting from the side of SS.  My guess is a tank venting from the autogenous pressurization system.  Any other ideas?

Thanks for sharing, and have a good one,
Mike
I think it might be SS engine chill prior to hot staging
From "The Rhetoric of Interstellar Flight", by Paul Gilster, March 10, 2011: We’ll build a future in space one dogged step at a time, and when asked how long humanity will struggle before reaching the stars, we’ll respond, “As long as it takes.”

Offline Starmang10

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The new YouTube video contains onboard snippets at 0:51:

That final snippet you took (1:17-18) shows something venting from the side of SS.  My guess is a tank venting from the autogenous pressurization system.  Any other ideas?

Thanks for sharing, and have a good one,
Mike
I think it might be SS engine chill prior to hot staging

The hot staging already happened...
hi! I am a 13 year old neurodivergent individual, although I can understand most things adults can too. I  have been interested in space since I was 5. Although I still have a lot to learn, I try my hardest to understand others, although sometimes I might not, so please correct me if I do not listen to others. thanks!

Offline jpo234

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The new YouTube video contains onboard snippets at 0:51:

That final snippet you took (1:17-18) shows something venting from the side of SS.  My guess is a tank venting from the autogenous pressurization system.  Any other ideas?

Thanks for sharing, and have a good one,
Mike
I think it might be SS engine chill prior to hot staging
a) The camera is on the Booster looking down, so it couldn't see the ship if it was still attached
b) This is after separation. You can see the ship in the background, partially obscured by the lifting point.
« Last Edit: 12/07/2023 07:03 pm by jpo234 »
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline uhuznaa

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I still think they reserved bandwidth for video for real engineering cams and don't want to give this away. There's hard test flight data to be gained from this and they will want to let others find out for themselves, the hard way.

And I'd be Ok with this. No need to give this away just for Internet points.

Online Eer

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The new YouTube video contains onboard snippets at 0:51:

That final snippet you took (1:17-18) shows something venting from the side of SS.  My guess is a tank venting from the autogenous pressurization system.  Any other ideas?

Thanks for sharing, and have a good one,
Mike
I think it might be SS engine chill prior to hot staging
a) The camera is on the Booster looking down, so it couldn't see the ship if it was still attached
b) This is after separation. You can see the ship in the background, partially obscured by the lifting point.

Yeah, I was looking at the very obvious venting from the SS side much earlier in the flight before separation. Sorry...
From "The Rhetoric of Interstellar Flight", by Paul Gilster, March 10, 2011: We’ll build a future in space one dogged step at a time, and when asked how long humanity will struggle before reaching the stars, we’ll respond, “As long as it takes.”

Offline Lars-J

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I still think they reserved bandwidth for video for real engineering cams and don't want to give this away. There's hard test flight data to be gained from this and they will want to let others find out for themselves, the hard way.

And I'd be Ok with this. No need to give this away just for Internet points.

Excuses IMO. It is sad when Chinese launches of their newer rockets (LM-5) show more onboard footage than SpaceX does for Starship. Despite having access to significantly more bandwidth.

At this point - after this latest video confirms that such footage exists - I can only assume that it is an intentional editorial decision by Mr H. Hughes. Maybe if someone suggested that it could be an exclusive X streaming feature, that might get the ball rolling.  :-X

« Last Edit: 12/07/2023 08:43 pm by Lars-J »

Offline CorvusCorax

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Another thing is, SpaceX tends to show external video in streams if they have it, and fall back to internal video if they don't. Even for F9 launches - we mostly see a lot more on board footage when she launches on a cloudy day. F9 shows internal cameras once beyond tracking cam range, for downrange reentry, but they often show ground cam reentry footage for a RTLS instead.

I dare predict, if there's a launch on a cloudy or foggy day, like SN-11 - they'll show a lot more internal video.

IFT-2 there was really good external footage the whole flight, so whoever directed the live-stream never saw the need to show internals.

Add to that that externals/ground cams are typically more reliable


We still don't know what camera footage was sent by the upper stage though - if any But the likelyhood it exists is now a lot higher, knowing that booster video exists.
« Last Edit: 12/08/2023 12:24 am by CorvusCorax »

Offline meekGee

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I still think they reserved bandwidth for video for real engineering cams and don't want to give this away. There's hard test flight data to be gained from this and they will want to let others find out for themselves, the hard way.

And I'd be Ok with this. No need to give this away just for Internet points.

Excuses IMO. It is sad when Chinese launches of their newer rockets (LM-5) show more onboard footage than SpaceX does for Starship. Despite having access to significantly more bandwidth.

At this point - after this latest video confirms that such footage exists - I can only assume that it is an intentional editorial decision by Mr H. Hughes. Maybe if someone suggested that it could be an exclusive X streaming feature, that might get the ball rolling.  :-X
But this WAS on X...
And SpaceX does normally show external footage
And for this flight they did show some, though less than normal and late..  along with plenty of awesome ground footage..

How inconsequential and petty a complaint is this!  By far the most transparent rocket development project ever falls a little bit short during one launch.

Yeesh.

« Last Edit: 12/08/2023 03:38 am by meekGee »
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Offline ZachS09

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Another thing is, SpaceX tends to show external video in streams if they have it, and fall back to internal video if they don't. Even for F9 launches - we mostly see a lot more on board footage when she launches on a cloudy day. F9 shows internal cameras once beyond tracking cam range, for downrange reentry, but they often show ground cam reentry footage for a RTLS instead.

What bothers me is that for Falcon 9 launches, SpaceX never shows Main Engine Cutoff on the external rocket camera. They always have to cut to the interstage camera early.

I don't think it should hurt to show MECO on the external cam and then quickly cut to the interstage cam in time for stage separation.
Liftoff for St. Jude's! Go Dragon, Go Falcon, Godspeed Inspiration4!

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