Author Topic: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2  (Read 37869 times)

Online MickQ

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #40 on: 11/30/2023 07:36 pm »
How is the environment on Mars likely to determine the design and operation of a boring machine ?
Lower temperature I can understand, reducing the cooling requirements for the cutters but what about gravity and pressure ??

Online MickQ

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #41 on: 11/30/2023 07:50 pm »
If cutting into bedrock would any tunnel liners be needed ?

Online steveleach

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #42 on: 11/30/2023 10:35 pm »
As I said back in the Amazing Habitats thread, it doesn't make sense to bring the building materials to Mars when they're already there, in the shape of bedrock. Bore and bore and keep boring and you have an ever-expanding interior space getting cheaper by the meter.

Musk knows that which is why he founded the Boring Company.   
While that might well have been a nice side benefit, my understanding is that he founded the Boring Company because he hated getting stuck in traffic on the way to the factory.

I tend to agree with you that bringing along an appropriately designed tunnel boring machine could be a very effective way to make lots of habitable space.

Offline chopsticks

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #43 on: 12/01/2023 12:06 am »


As I said back in the Amazing Habitats thread, it doesn't make sense to bring the building materials to Mars when they're already there, in the shape of bedrock. Bore and bore and keep boring and you have an ever-expanding interior space getting cheaper by the meter.

Musk knows that which is why he founded the Boring Company.   
While that might well have been a nice side benefit, my understanding is that he founded the Boring Company because he hated getting stuck in traffic on the way to the factory.

Exactly, I haven't seen any evidence that TBC has any Mars related intentions or that Elon Musk has even expressed that in relation to the boring company. It doesn't make sense to me why as to why this thread even exists on NSF because TBC is supposedly a type of public transit and nothing else. And the discussion about what TBC is actually for got shut down (which is fine, it has nothing to do with spaceflight).

I guess we could discuss using TBMs on Mars in general, but there are many operators of TBMs who are not TBC so I'm not sure why this thread is even on here. TBC is about public transportation, not Mars tunnels.

Offline Okie_Steve

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #44 on: 12/01/2023 04:23 am »
As I recall, Musk did state that he did not initially found TBC with Mars in mind, but also stated that in retrospect it could be useful. As for any other tunnel boring companies, I doubt they will be launching anything soon 😀

This question comes up periodically. Suffice it to say that Chris is OK with this thread as is.

Offline Lampyridae

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #45 on: 12/01/2023 04:26 am »
If cutting into bedrock would any tunnel liners be needed ?

It will, certainly for the first however many hundred metres you need to go down to find competent bedrock. Finding unjointed bedrock anywhere on the planet that is directly exposed to the surface is going to be a challenge. Unlike Earth rock, Mars bedrock is billions of years of years old, is likely not hydrothermally altered for the most part (which "heals" fractures and joints in older rock) and has been subjected to intensive explosive forces throughout its history.

Offline Yiosie

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #46 on: 12/01/2023 04:40 am »
From the previous thread in October 2022:

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42143.msg2417893#msg2417893

Quote from: su27k
Quote from: chopsticks
I actually am a little bit confused as to why this thread about TBC even exists on this forum since as far as I can tell it has nothing to do with space exploration or Mars. If it did I would be enthused about its existence here. I think Elon Musk even said once that TBC's activities had nothing to do with Mars (I could be wrong on this).

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-use-boring-company-tunneling-technology-mars/

Quote
SpaceX’s COO and President Gwynne Shotwell corroborated past comments made by CEO Elon Musk in a recent interview with CNBC, stating that she believed The Boring Company’s advances in tunneling technology will help SpaceX safely house humans on Mars.

Asked more broadly about collaboration between Musk’s many ventures, ranging from Tesla to Neuralink, she noted that “The Boring Company could actually be how we house people on Mars,”

Quote
In the past, Musk has also expressed interest in and awareness of the many potential uses for advanced tunneling technologies on Mars and for settlement of the solar system more generally. Speaking at 2017’s International Space Station Research and Development Conference, the CEO was asked by an audience member whether The Boring Company was actually just a front to develop technology that would help SpaceX settle humans on Mars. He agreed, at least partially:

“I do think getting good at digging tunnels could be really helpful for Mars. It would be a different optimization for a Mars boring machine versus an Earth boring machine, [but] there’s going to be a [need for a] lot of…mining in general to get raw materials [and water ice]. And then, along the way, building underground habitats where you could get radiation shielding… you could build an entire city underground if you wanted to.”

You actually asked the same question and got a response a year ago, chopsticks  ;D

Online catdlr

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #47 on: 12/01/2023 05:04 am »
From the previous thread in October 2022:

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42143.msg2417893#msg2417893

Quote from: su27k
Quote from: chopsticks
I actually am a little bit confused as to why this thread about TBC even exists on this forum since as far as I can tell it has nothing to do with space exploration or Mars. If it did I would be enthused about its existence here. I think Elon Musk even said once that TBC's activities had nothing to do with Mars (I could be wrong on this).

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-use-boring-company-tunneling-technology-mars/

Quote
SpaceX’s COO and President Gwynne Shotwell corroborated past comments made by CEO Elon Musk in a recent interview with CNBC, stating that she believed The Boring Company’s advances in tunneling technology will help SpaceX safely house humans on Mars.

Asked more broadly about collaboration between Musk’s many ventures, ranging from Tesla to Neuralink, she noted that “The Boring Company could actually be how we house people on Mars,”

Quote
In the past, Musk has also expressed interest in and awareness of the many potential uses for advanced tunneling technologies on Mars and for settlement of the solar system more generally. Speaking at 2017’s International Space Station Research and Development Conference, the CEO was asked by an audience member whether The Boring Company was actually just a front to develop technology that would help SpaceX settle humans on Mars. He agreed, at least partially:

“I do think getting good at digging tunnels could be really helpful for Mars. It would be a different optimization for a Mars boring machine versus an Earth boring machine, [but] there’s going to be a [need for a] lot of…mining in general to get raw materials [and water ice]. And then, along the way, building underground habitats where you could get radiation shielding… you could build an entire city underground if you wanted to.”

You actually asked the same question and got a response a year ago, chopsticks  ;D

A year from now, we will likely still be discussing the same topic without finding a resolution and asking why this got started in the first place. Rather than engaging in heated conversations about Elon's company on Earth, let's wait for official announcements from him or SpaceX regarding their plans for tunneling on Mars. Then we can have a meaningful discussion and find solutions that SpaceX expects from us armchair engineers (LOL). This approach will prevent us from facing moderation consequences.

Tony stepping off soap box.
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Offline Lampyridae

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #48 on: 12/01/2023 08:45 am »
From the previous thread in October 2022:

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42143.msg2417893#msg2417893

Quote from: su27k
Quote from: chopsticks
I actually am a little bit confused as to why this thread about TBC even exists on this forum since as far as I can tell it has nothing to do with space exploration or Mars. If it did I would be enthused about its existence here. I think Elon Musk even said once that TBC's activities had nothing to do with Mars (I could be wrong on this).

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-use-boring-company-tunneling-technology-mars/

Quote
SpaceX’s COO and President Gwynne Shotwell corroborated past comments made by CEO Elon Musk in a recent interview with CNBC, stating that she believed The Boring Company’s advances in tunneling technology will help SpaceX safely house humans on Mars.

Asked more broadly about collaboration between Musk’s many ventures, ranging from Tesla to Neuralink, she noted that “The Boring Company could actually be how we house people on Mars,”

Quote
In the past, Musk has also expressed interest in and awareness of the many potential uses for advanced tunneling technologies on Mars and for settlement of the solar system more generally. Speaking at 2017’s International Space Station Research and Development Conference, the CEO was asked by an audience member whether The Boring Company was actually just a front to develop technology that would help SpaceX settle humans on Mars. He agreed, at least partially:

“I do think getting good at digging tunnels could be really helpful for Mars. It would be a different optimization for a Mars boring machine versus an Earth boring machine, [but] there’s going to be a [need for a] lot of…mining in general to get raw materials [and water ice]. And then, along the way, building underground habitats where you could get radiation shielding… you could build an entire city underground if you wanted to.”

You actually asked the same question and got a response a year ago, chopsticks  ;D

A year from now, we will likely still be discussing the same topic without finding a resolution and asking why this got started in the first place. Rather than engaging in heated conversations about Elon's company on Earth, let's wait for official announcements from him or SpaceX regarding their plans for tunneling on Mars. Then we can have a meaningful discussion and find solutions that SpaceX expects from us armchair engineers (LOL). This approach will prevent us from facing moderation consequences.

Tony stepping off soap box.

I think TBC is relevant to Mars, just not for making the houses, farms, common areas and so on. Mining technology absolutely will be needed for Mars. First for accessing ice (probably strip mining) then quarrying for concrete and masonry and finally for accessing mineral resources. Certainly some mines can be repurposed for habitation, especially for raising children to adulthood.

Since Martian bedrock is likely highly jointed to hundreds of metres (based on orbital photos of cliffs), very simple mining techniques can be used, such as radial-axial splitting tools, which are basically a 20th century version of hammer and wedges. They are very light compared to tunnel boring machines and can be mounted on a robotic platform, and swapped out for other tools such as foam injectors. You can afford to have several and teleoperate them from your basecamp.

Splitters also doesn't require a lot of water, which TBMs do need to slurry out the cuttings. If anything, I'd like to see something from TBC like semi-autonomous mining robots... though it's not like those things don't already exist.

Tangent: recent studies have shown that lunar ice is likely quite abundant but probably buried beneath dozens to hundreds of metres of ejecta blankets in the polar craters. So deep underground mining could be necessary on the Moon, and would be a great way to test mining technology with zero/low water in low gravity and full/near-vacuum.

Offline Greg Hullender

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #49 on: 12/01/2023 01:40 pm »
I think TBC is relevant to Mars . . . .

Since Martian bedrock is likely highly jointed to hundreds of metres (based on orbital photos of cliffs), very simple mining techniques can be used . . . .

[They] also [don't] require a lot of water, which TBMs do need to slurry out the cuttings. If anything, I'd like to see something from TBC like semi-autonomous mining robots... though it's not like those things don't already exist.
You start by saying TBC is relevant to Mars, but then you offer evidence that they're not. The big, complicated, water-dependent machines that TBC is working on are not needed on Mars, where "very simple techniques" can be used instead.

Is there any reason TBC would want to develop semi-autonomous mining robots on Earth? Is there any reason the supplier of mining machines for a Mars colony needs to be TBC? I think the answer to both questions is "no." If that's true, then this thread should probably be locked. It's had a couple of years to try to prove relevance, but it hasn't done so. A thread on Martian resource extraction (including mining) might be interesting though.
« Last Edit: 12/01/2023 01:41 pm by Greg Hullender »

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #50 on: 12/01/2023 07:24 pm »
Fact is that there's no other place on the internet where TBC is discussed to this degree and detail, not even on X.  Chris so far has been very kind in allowing this thread and I hope that he continues his tolerance, despite the periodic detour into pointless arguments.

Tunnel boring machine technology has relevance both to the moon and Mars, but the extent of relevance is not yet known.  Opinions appear to vary.  A discussion of ring segment thickness and composition on the moon and Mars would be interesting to me.  For the habitats, I would wish for the option of somewhat larger tunnel diameter than the current product.

Overall, I'm not sure that road headers are inferior to TBMs for moon and Mars construction.  But this seems like a good thread to discuss such things.
« Last Edit: 12/01/2023 07:31 pm by RedLineTrain »

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #51 on: 12/01/2023 07:47 pm »
Is there any reason TBC would want to develop semi-autonomous mining robots on Earth?

So far, the design contemplates teleoperation.  No workers in the hole.  Below is a picture of the teleoperation command center container.

Beyond that, we can only speculate.  Maybe Musk doesn't even know.  As he likes to say, automation of manufacturing is the absolute last step in the product development process.

https://twitter.com/boringcompany/status/1703590161001730521
« Last Edit: 12/01/2023 08:01 pm by RedLineTrain »

Online MickQ

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #52 on: 12/01/2023 09:25 pm »
The road header will have its place on Mars alongside the TBM.  Both are good at what they do, what they are designed for.  TBM makes a main tunnel and the road header follows behind digging side tunnels and basically any other space required.

IMHO of course.
« Last Edit: 12/01/2023 09:28 pm by MickQ »

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #53 on: 12/01/2023 09:29 pm »
Proof that this thread belongs on NSF...

https://shop.boringcompany.com/products/tunnel-mars-t-shirt

Offline DigitalMan

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #54 on: 12/01/2023 09:41 pm »
There was mention years ago of microwaving lunar soil to create brick like material, I’d love to know whether you could integrate that with a tunneling machine to make tunnels in the moon.

Online catdlr

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #55 on: 12/02/2023 12:53 am »
« Last Edit: 12/02/2023 04:12 am by catdlr »
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Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #56 on: 12/02/2023 03:35 am »
https://twitter.com/boringcompany/status/1730807576139358420

Quote
On the cradle!

Prufrock-1 has officially completed the Westgate-2 tunnel. This is the 4th tunnel Prufrock-1 has constructed in Vegas, and the 7th overall Vegas Loop tunnel (other 3 tunnels were completed using Godot and Prufrock-2).

Open to the general public in Q1 2024!

@WestgateVegas @LVCVA

Online catdlr

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #57 on: 12/02/2023 03:46 am »


Quote
On the cradle!

Prufrock-1 has officially completed the Westgate-2 tunnel. This is the 4th tunnel Prufrock-1 has constructed in Vegas, and the 7th overall Vegas Loop tunnel (other 3 tunnels were completed using Godot and Prufrock-2).

Open to the general public in Q1 2024!

@WestgateVegas @LVCVA

When this tunnel is completed it needs a sign that spells out "Tunnel to Mars"    ;)
« Last Edit: 12/02/2023 03:47 am by catdlr »
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Offline Twark_Main

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #58 on: 12/02/2023 03:52 am »
Proof that this thread belongs on NSF...

https://shop.boringcompany.com/products/tunnel-mars-t-shirt

Wow, I stand corrected!!

Eh, "TBC has always secretly been a Mars company" is a popular conspiracy theory. It's wrong, but it's also popular.

The fact that TBC made a shirt doesn't mean the conspiracy theory is correct, it just means they decided to cash in on it.  ;)
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Offline meekGee

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #59 on: 12/02/2023 09:38 am »
Proof that this thread belongs on NSF...

https://shop.boringcompany.com/products/tunnel-mars-t-shirt

Wow, I stand corrected!!

Eh, "TBC has always secretly been a Mars company" is a popular conspiracy theory. It's wrong, but it's also popular.

The fact that TBC made a shirt doesn't mean the conspiracy theory is correct, it just means they decided to cash in on it.  ;)
So you're supporting the conspiracy theory that their secret plan to revenue is moichendizing. 

I think within 10 years of the first Mars launch there will be a boring machine on Mars.
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