Author Topic: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2  (Read 41413 times)

Offline Twark_Main

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #100 on: 12/05/2023 01:54 am »
The Tatooine and Chinese reference made me think of getting Elon a Crate Dragon to drill the holes on Mars, now all we need is some Banthas.

For anyone who's lost:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Krayt_dragon
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Offline catdlr

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #101 on: 12/05/2023 02:02 am »
The Tatooine and Chinese reference made me think of getting Elon a Crate Dragon to drill the holes on Mars, now all we need is some Banthas.

For anyone who's lost:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Krayt_dragon

Thanks for pointing out the spelling. In that episode, there are two scenes where it appears. The first scene is more relevant to this thread as it involves tunneling through the town.

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Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #102 on: 12/05/2023 06:17 am »
https://twitter.com/boringcompany/status/1731900076392431762

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Thanks for being a great partner - we are excited to open for service in Q1! 
More pics of TBM transport - safely squeezed 11 inches beneath the Monorail and then headed back to TBC to prep for the next Vegas Loop tunnel.

Offline D_Dom

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #103 on: 12/06/2023 05:58 pm »
 I see an article in my local newspaper today detailing construction of high speed rail connecting Southern California to Las Vegas. 218 miles, speeds nearly 200 mph, projecting 11 million passengers per year. Hoping to be finished in time for 2028 Olympics here in LA. Claiming all environmental review and permits are now in place after decades of work. Southern terminal in San Bernardino county, possibly near Ontario Airport(?). If I have a chance I will look for plans of Las Vegas terminal.
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Offline geoffc

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #104 on: 12/06/2023 06:25 pm »
You found Brightline West.  The first Brightline rail is in Florida, running north up the east side from Miami to the Palm Beach area, then turning west to Orlando, maybe to extend to Tampa.

Nice to see private companies trying to build rail!

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #105 on: 12/06/2023 09:17 pm »
https://twitter.com/boringcompany/status/1732524445242417563

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Time-lapse video of Prufrock-1 Retrieval @WestgateVegas

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #106 on: 12/06/2023 09:36 pm »
I see an article in my local newspaper today detailing construction of high speed rail connecting Southern California to Las Vegas. 218 miles, speeds nearly 200 mph, projecting 11 million passengers per year. Hoping to be finished in time for 2028 Olympics here in LA. Claiming all environmental review and permits are now in place after decades of work. Southern terminal in San Bernardino county, possibly near Ontario Airport(?). If I have a chance I will look for plans of Las Vegas terminal.

I don't know if they have progressed much lately, but even before the recent rise in interest rates, the hangup has been the financing.  There's some skepticism that it will actually be built.

Offline catdlr

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #107 on: 12/06/2023 10:10 pm »
I see an article in my local newspaper today detailing construction of high speed rail connecting Southern California to Las Vegas. 218 miles, speeds nearly 200 mph, projecting 11 million passengers per year. Hoping to be finished in time for 2028 Olympics here in LA. Claiming all environmental review and permits are now in place after decades of work. Southern terminal in San Bernardino county, possibly near Ontario Airport(?). If I have a chance I will look for plans of Las Vegas terminal.

I don't know if they have progressed much lately, but even before the recent rise in interest rates, the hangup has been the financing.  There's some skepticism that it will actually be built.

and it's all above ground, with no tunneling anticipated, and runs along or in between the lanes of i-15.  Good luck to them, many companies have come and gone due to finances as mentioned above. 
« Last Edit: 12/06/2023 10:13 pm by catdlr »
Tony De La Rosa, ...I'm no Feline Dealer!! I move mountains.  but I'm better known for "I think it's highly sexual." Japanese to English Translation.

Offline ctillier

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #108 on: 12/07/2023 02:36 am »
the hangup has been the financing.  There's some skepticism that it will actually be built.

The $3B grant from the feds should kick things into high gear!

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #109 on: 12/07/2023 10:06 am »
You found Brightline West.  The first Brightline rail is in Florida, running north up the east side from Miami to the Palm Beach area, then turning west to Orlando, maybe to extend to Tampa.

Nice to see private companies trying to build rail!

Congrats to them building it... it won't work long term in FL. The drive time is comparable from Miami to MCO and you have transportation when you get there... rail, not so much. Orlando is way to spread out... same with Tampa. No local infrastructure here to support it and honestly the money isn't there locally either.

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #110 on: 12/07/2023 07:07 pm »
Mick Akers from the Las Vegas Review-Journal is reporting that TBC bought 1.4 acres at 3682 S. Valley View Blvd. for $3.7 million.  It appears to have some relation to the Spring Mountain/Twain non-resort station (see map).

Interestingly, the real estate company selling the land to TBC is touting two adjacent developments that they have named the Spring Mountain Vegas Loop retail development and Valley View Vegas Loop retail development.  This appears to be the first marketing effort related to proximity to a Vegas Loop station.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/traffic/land-near-chinatown-planned-for-vegas-loop-station-2961080/
« Last Edit: 12/07/2023 07:08 pm by RedLineTrain »

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #111 on: 12/07/2023 07:26 pm »
I see an article in my local newspaper today detailing construction of high speed rail connecting Southern California to Las Vegas. 218 miles, speeds nearly 200 mph, projecting 11 million passengers per year. Hoping to be finished in time for 2028 Olympics here in LA. Claiming all environmental review and permits are now in place after decades of work. Southern terminal in San Bernardino county, possibly near Ontario Airport(?). If I have a chance I will look for plans of Las Vegas terminal.

I don't know if they have progressed much lately, but even before the recent rise in interest rates, the hangup has been the financing.  There's some skepticism that it will actually be built.

and it's all above ground, with no tunneling anticipated, and runs along or in between the lanes of i-15.  Good luck to them, many companies have come and gone due to finances as mentioned above.

For those keeping score, this is a $12 billion project for 265 miles of track and 4 stations, or roughly $45 million per mile.
« Last Edit: 12/07/2023 07:27 pm by RedLineTrain »

Offline catdlr

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #112 on: 12/07/2023 07:57 pm »
I see an article in my local newspaper today detailing construction of high speed rail connecting Southern California to Las Vegas. 218 miles, speeds nearly 200 mph, projecting 11 million passengers per year. Hoping to be finished in time for 2028 Olympics here in LA. Claiming all environmental review and permits are now in place after decades of work. Southern terminal in San Bernardino county, possibly near Ontario Airport(?). If I have a chance I will look for plans of Las Vegas terminal.

I don't know if they have progressed much lately, but even before the recent rise in interest rates, the hangup has been the financing.  There's some skepticism that it will actually be built.

and it's all above ground, with no tunneling anticipated, and runs along or in between the lanes of i-15.  Good luck to them, many companies have come and gone due to finances as mentioned above.

For those keeping score, this is a $12 billion project for 265 miles of track and 4 stations, or roughly $45 million per mile.

Let's see here.  An investment of $12 billion was made, out of which $3 billion was granted, leaving $9 billion for investors. The issue with this investment is that the majority of passengers are dropped off at a train station located 80 miles short of the greater Los Angeles, South Bay, and Orange County areas, where desirable casino customers with discretionary income, can only travel to that station by car or light rail. A two-hour drive or rail ride (on a good day) is required to reach these areas, which can be a hard sell for passengers who are used to faster transit options such as flying out of three nearby airports. As a result, the only customers who may be interested are those who, demographically live closer to that station, would be hesitant to purchase rail tickets on this new train, and would rather continue driving to Las Vegas to spend what little disposable money they have there.

Let's not "de-rail" this thread any longer and get back to the thread's objective, tunneling aspects of his Boring Company concerning Mars.
« Last Edit: 12/07/2023 08:06 pm by catdlr »
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Offline edzieba

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #113 on: 12/08/2023 01:46 pm »
https://twitter.com/boringcompany/status/1732524445242417563

Quote
Time-lapse video of Prufrock-1 Retrieval @WestgateVegas
From the half-liner embedded in the big dirt pile behind the removed TBM head, it looks like Prufrock self-propelled out of the pit and up the prepared dirt mound for retrieval. If so, that means the minimal machinery behind it constitutes the remaining components of the TBM not contained within the head, which means Prufrock is a remarkably compact TBM without the usual 'tail' of support equipment.

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #114 on: 12/08/2023 02:42 pm »
Let's see here.  An investment of $12 billion was made, out of which $3 billion was granted, leaving $9 billion for investors.

Of the $9 billion for investors, $3+ billion will consist of bonds guaranteed by the government of California.

I doubt TBC would want to go down this path of government subsidies, spending, and control, with heavy involvement by the federal government.  A project takes decades using that approach.  They should probably much prefer the Vegas Loop model of financing, if it is available.  My understanding is that what might work in Nevada may not work in other jurisdictions.  It will be interesting to see how Austin works out.
« Last Edit: 12/08/2023 02:45 pm by RedLineTrain »

Offline edzieba

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #115 on: 12/08/2023 05:01 pm »
Let's see here.  An investment of $12 billion was made, out of which $3 billion was granted, leaving $9 billion for investors.

Of the $9 billion for investors, $3+ billion will consist of bonds guaranteed by the government of California.

I doubt TBC would want to go down this path of government subsidies, spending, and control, with heavy involvement by the federal government.  A project takes decades using that approach.  They should probably much prefer the Vegas Loop model of financing, if it is available.  My understanding is that what might work in Nevada may not work in other jurisdictions.  It will be interesting to see how Austin works out.
Like with SpaceX (and TBC with the LVCC system), I have no doubt they will happily accept government funds if available.

What they won't do is architect the project such that institutional funds and commercial raises must all come together before any work starts to occur - where wrangling the commercial funds to meet the promised government funds, and getting everyone to shake hands on what their requirements to invest are, is what tends to drag the process on. What has occurred at SpaceX in the past is either bidding for a contract at a fully-burdened price (as with Dragon 2, where SpaceX has eaten the eaten the cost underestimate for the first flights then re-bid at a higher price), or bidding at a price they are willing to accept that only covers part of the work and dealing with further funding sources on their own timetable and their own terms (e.g. HLS) whilst moving forwards with the project regardless.

Offline MickQ

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #116 on: 12/09/2023 10:43 pm »
AFAIK There is no rule that says TBC has to use TBMs to dig tunnels.

WRT  Mars, I know that the roadheader is a much more versatile option for excavating habitable space.  Ive just always envisaged using a TBM as it gives a good circular cross section which I see as being the best for fitting airlocks.  Then again, I suppose that modern roadheaders are just as good these days.  🤔

Offline DistantTemple

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #117 on: 12/10/2023 03:04 pm »
IMO the TBM is one machine that builds a completed tunnel - well at least the lined, and structurally sound tube!
I assume currently several operators ride n it and control it, and others make sure the flows of tunnel segments and spoil properly support its operation.

At first I thought that that makes it more ready for robotic operation and teleoperated management.

However a road header in the right sort of stable rock, is only one item to control at a time. And so very much easier. If the rock is completely self supporting, then the only logistics is removing the spoil! which is a loader and a truck. All three can operate in separate time slots (for simplicity at first). And a dome (or other shapes) can be made instead of a tunnel... so it is massively less complicated than a TBM, much more flexible and of course cheaper lighter, and easier to land on the surface!
TBM's suddenly seem to me to be way in the future on Mars, and completely unsuited for early operations.
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Offline Ludus

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #118 on: 12/10/2023 03:44 pm »
IMO the TBM is one machine that builds a completed tunnel - well at least the lined, and structurally sound tube!
I assume currently several operators ride n it and control it, and others make sure the flows of tunnel segments and spoil properly support its operation.

At first I thought that that makes it more ready for robotic operation and teleoperated management.

However a road header in the right sort of stable rock, is only one item to control at a time. And so very much easier. If the rock is completely self supporting, then the only logistics is removing the spoil! which is a loader and a truck. All three can operate in separate time slots (for simplicity at first). And a dome (or other shapes) can be made instead of a tunnel... so it is massively less complicated than a TBM, much more flexible and of course cheaper lighter, and easier to land on the surface!
TBM's suddenly seem to me to be way in the future on Mars, and completely unsuited for early operations.

As you observe, the Loop tunnel TBM system requires an elaborate supporting infrastructure. That it might be used in the early history of a Mars settlement seems more a polite fiction that lets this thread continue to be vaguely Space related.

Offline DanClemmensen

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Re: Elon The Boring Company - Tunnel 2
« Reply #119 on: 12/10/2023 03:51 pm »
IMO the TBM is one machine that builds a completed tunnel - well at least the lined, and structurally sound tube!
I assume currently several operators ride n it and control it, and others make sure the flows of tunnel segments and spoil properly support its operation.

At first I thought that that makes it more ready for robotic operation and teleoperated management.

However a road header in the right sort of stable rock, is only one item to control at a time. And so very much easier. If the rock is completely self supporting, then the only logistics is removing the spoil! which is a loader and a truck. All three can operate in separate time slots (for simplicity at first). And a dome (or other shapes) can be made instead of a tunnel... so it is massively less complicated than a TBM, much more flexible and of course cheaper lighter, and easier to land on the surface!
TBM's suddenly seem to me to be way in the future on Mars, and completely unsuited for early operations.

As you observe, the Loop tunnel TBM system requires an elaborate supporting infrastructure. That it might be used in the early history of a Mars settlement seems more a polite fiction that lets this thread continue to be vaguely Space related.
Use TBM to dig the streets, prpbably in a very large cloverleaf pattern so the machine can keep running forward, The center will be a square grid as the machine offsets by one city block for each pass. Use road header to dig the dwellings, etc. in the sides of the street tunnels.

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