Author Topic: Starship heat shield  (Read 1871258 times)

Online equiserre

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Re: Starship heat shield
« Reply #4220 on: 08/29/2025 07:18 pm »
Bump because there is much to say about the heat shield this time, can anybody post those images before and after ?

Offline catdlr

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Re: Starship heat shield
« Reply #4221 on: 08/29/2025 07:29 pm »
Bump because there is much to say about the heat shield this time, can anybody post those images before and after ?

There wasn't a heat shield issue.  Elon explained the discoloration from a tile test; otherwise, 95% of the tiles survived.

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=63386.msg2713110#msg2713110
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Online equiserre

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Re: Starship heat shield
« Reply #4222 on: 08/29/2025 07:48 pm »
Bump because there is much to say about the heat shield this time, can anybody post those images before and after ?

There wasn't a heat shield issue.  Elon explained the discoloration from a tile test; otherwise, 95% of the tiles survived.

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=63386.msg2713110#msg2713110

Dind´t say there was an issue, I said there is a lot to say in the heatshield thread:

- improvement verified with the new heatshield scheme
- Elon says the whitened part is from an inner layer with the tiles removed. Does this mean that was the ablative safety layer that stained the tiles white?
- are the results valid from the orange part? has the metal rust coating helped or hindered the regular HS performance?
- did the nosecone fare well enough?
- what was the maximum g loading that this HS sustained? Was it higher than previous entries? it would be nice to compare entry G, time, etc to try compare peak and integrated heat loading
- in time, I hope Elon gives some info on the tile experiments. Surely the metal tiles being abraded/vaporized all over the place is not the idea
- forward flaps placement + hinge seal improvement seems to have worked fine
- tiles tapering seems to have worked better, though some rainbow coloring in the metal could be seen. But at least it was not warping and charring as in the last entry.

Any other notable thing?
« Last Edit: 08/29/2025 07:52 pm by equiserre »

Offline InterestedEngineer

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Re: Starship heat shield
« Reply #4223 on: 09/06/2025 04:00 pm »
Ring watchers has a tile watching article

https://ringwatchers.com/article/s37-tps


I realized after reading this article that there's a huge benefit to the white smears from the ablative material underneath the tile.

Inspection.

When a Starship returns from orbit, no need to micro inspect every tile  Just look for white streaks.  Let actual entry do the inspection for you.

Ingenuous on their part.

{added image: CATDLR}
« Last Edit: 09/06/2025 04:04 pm by catdlr »

Offline gosink

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Re: Starship heat shield
« Reply #4224 on: 09/09/2025 10:11 pm »
Does anyone know if they test heat shield ideas on the second stage of Falcon 9 rockets?  Seems like they have the opportunity to try lots of new ideas every week.  Certainly some payload cost, but not sure that most of their launches are maxing out. 
« Last Edit: 09/09/2025 10:20 pm by gosink »

Offline Metalskin

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Re: Starship heat shield
« Reply #4225 on: 09/09/2025 10:21 pm »
Does anyone know if they test heat shield ideas on the second stage of Falcon 9 rockets?  Seems like they have the opportunity to try lots of new ideas every week.  Just add some tiles and couple of sensors or cameras to the second stage, sit back and collect data.

Maybe the entry profile (is that the correct term?) wouldn't be suitable for testing tiles. I assume that they would need to control the angle of attack, attitude, etc. Can the second stage do all that?
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Offline catdlr

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Re: Starship heat shield
« Reply #4226 on: 09/09/2025 10:28 pm »
Does anyone know if they test heat shield ideas on the second stage of Falcon 9 rockets?  Seems like they have the opportunity to try lots of new ideas every week.  Just add some tiles and couple of sensors or cameras to the second stage, sit back and collect data.

Maybe the entry profile (is that the correct term?) wouldn't be suitable for testing tiles. I assume that they would need to control the angle of attack, attitude, etc. Can the second stage do all that?

From all the videos I've seen of the second stage reentry, they first do a burn to deorbit, then start dumping fuel, and that process makes the second stage spin, creating a spiral. My assumption is that the stage is tumbling through the reentry phase with no fuel left for attitude control.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Ni3sHgzM-_o

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/W-iqLsCuj-o
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Offline StraumliBlight

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Re: Starship heat shield
« Reply #4227 on: 09/09/2025 10:38 pm »
Does anyone know if they test heat shield ideas on the second stage of Falcon 9 rockets?  Seems like they have the opportunity to try lots of new ideas every week.  Certainly some payload cost, but not sure that most of their launches are maxing out.

They've tested them on Dragon.

Quote
SpaceX announced during its CRS-18 Cargo Dragon webcast that the twice-flown orbital spacecraft will feature a handful of ceramic Starship heat shield tiles, meant to flight-test a critical component of the next-generation SpaceX spacecraft.

Offline Metalskin

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Re: Starship heat shield
« Reply #4228 on: 09/09/2025 10:40 pm »

They've tested them on Dragon.

Quote
SpaceX announced during its CRS-18 Cargo Dragon webcast that the twice-flown orbital spacecraft will feature a handful of ceramic Starship heat shield tiles, meant to flight-test a critical component of the next-generation SpaceX spacecraft.

Now that makes a lot more sense. Though I suspect that they would only have limited options to learn from a dragon reentry. Nothing like testing the real thing.
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Offline Cheapchips

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Re: Starship heat shield
« Reply #4229 on: 09/10/2025 07:54 am »
Do we have any speculation on the material used for the 'crunch wrap' gap filler?  Doesn't seem to be ablative,  or at least it's not visibly so, like the tile backing layer.

Re: Starship heat shield
« Reply #4230 on: 09/10/2025 11:18 am »
Whatever it might be, like ceramic, silica blanket (or something else?) it obviously cannot resist the heat like tiles (or they would just use it as main TPS), so I wonder if this can even be considered as a path for a rapidly reusable heatshield or only a stopgap to make Starship work - accepting that it would require refurbishments after each flight.

It's not like even perfectly working Starships would be immediately reused without inspections in this decade, so it's not a big deal for near future, but long term, I guess, they may still need to search for alternative solutions.

Or maybe I'm wrong and these wraps would be okay for multiple flights. But how many? 5? 10? That's still not even close to what SpaceX aspires for. On the other hand - Starship would still be revolutionary and the most effective way to launch mass to LEO even if its reusability is never rapid. There is a wide spectrum of success here even if falling well below the ultimate goal of low cost Mars missions.

Offline InterestedEngineer

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Re: Starship heat shield
« Reply #4231 on: 09/10/2025 11:27 pm »
Do we have any speculation on the material used for the 'crunch wrap' gap filler?  Doesn't seem to be ablative,  or at least it's not visibly so, like the tile backing layer.

In the very long thread above, there's a ton of speculation about the white insulation layer below the tiles.  It's likely a woven ceramic fire blanket.  It doesn't work as well as tiles hence the tiles but it looks like it's sufficient for the gaps and to mitigate hot spots against the steel.

The various ones put forward were

1. Saffil
2. generic brand ceramic felt
3. Nextel

Offline catdlr

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Re: Starship heat shield
« Reply #4232 on: 09/10/2025 11:32 pm »
I no longer consider it a blanket, but rather a part of the tile backing, mounted by the tile robot in alternating placement. This way, the tiles have a gap filler made of the same material between them, eliminating the need for laborious hand placement.

In the third picture, the areas in green are what you see in the above two images (Tiles with the white gap fillers).  The area in red was not present with those, and there were areas on the nose cone where no tiles were present; additionally, the white backing was painted black (which resulted in the white coating of the nose cone and several areas along the spine).  The Area in orange is a special tile test area and also survived.

For those wanting to find out what's in store for V3, read this article.

Quote
Ars Technica@arstechnica
SpaceX’s lesson from last Starship flight? “We need to seal the tiles.”
ARTICLE:  SpaceX’s lesson from last Starship flight? “We need to seal the tiles.”
For those who did not read the article, the headline is slightly misleading. It's not about sealing individual tiles against moisture. It's about filling the gaps between tiles to keep the reentry plasma from reaching the ablative backup layer. In particular, they used their neat new "crush wrap" approach for most of the tiles, and it worked.  "Crush wrap" is that fabric-looking stuff that is installed under each tile indivitually with its edges sticking out of the gap all the way around. After pushing the tile down on its pins, the stuff that sticks out is trimmed flush. Apparently, this is quick to install and can fly multiple times without per-flight maintenance.

I've seen this being installed on the ship.  Let me find an image, probably from a Starship Gazer.

Presented here in this image are two samples of the specified tile type featuring the "crunch wrap." The pre-cut white fabric backing will fold between the tiles, creating a two-layer fabric structure between each tile. Alternatively, they can be arranged to alternate; in one configuration, the fabric will lie flat, and in the other, it will be installed between two tiles, causing the fabric to fold upwards and serve as a gap filler between each tile.

The second photo illustrates two tiles butting up to each other in the RED-highlighted box

Photo Credit: Starship Gazer
« Last Edit: 09/10/2025 11:55 pm by catdlr »
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Offline meekGee

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Re: Starship heat shield
« Reply #4233 on: 09/11/2025 02:09 am »


I no longer consider it a blanket, but rather a part of the tile backing, mounted by the tile robot in alternating placement. This way, the tiles have a gap filler made of the same material between them, eliminating the need for laborious hand placement.

In the third picture, the areas in green are what you see in the above two images (Tiles with the white gap fillers).  The area in red was not present with those, and there were areas on the nose cone where no tiles were present; additionally, the white backing was painted black (which resulted in the white coating of the nose cone and several areas along the spine).  The Area in orange is a special tile test area and also survived.

For those wanting to find out what's in store for V3, read this article.

Quote
Ars Technica@arstechnica
SpaceX’s lesson from last Starship flight? “We need to seal the tiles.”
ARTICLE:  SpaceX’s lesson from last Starship flight? “We need to seal the tiles.”
For those who did not read the article, the headline is slightly misleading. It's not about sealing individual tiles against moisture. It's about filling the gaps between tiles to keep the reentry plasma from reaching the ablative backup layer. In particular, they used their neat new "crush wrap" approach for most of the tiles, and it worked.  "Crush wrap" is that fabric-looking stuff that is installed under each tile indivitually with its edges sticking out of the gap all the way around. After pushing the tile down on its pins, the stuff that sticks out is trimmed flush. Apparently, this is quick to install and can fly multiple times without per-flight maintenance.

I've seen this being installed on the ship.  Let me find an image, probably from a Starship Gazer.

Presented here in this image are two samples of the specified tile type featuring the "crunch wrap." The pre-cut white fabric backing will fold between the tiles, creating a two-layer fabric structure between each tile. Alternatively, they can be arranged to alternate; in one configuration, the fabric will lie flat, and in the other, it will be installed between two tiles, causing the fabric to fold upwards and serve as a gap filler between each tile.

The second photo illustrates two tiles butting up to each other in the RED-highlighted box

Photo Credit: Starship Gazer

Sure but as shown, the blanket would interfere with the adjacent unit being placed.

Easily solvable with a bit of packaging of course, just need to be wary of friction during the install pushing one of the blanket leafs under the tile.
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Offline catdlr

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Re: Starship heat shield
« Reply #4234 on: 09/11/2025 02:16 am »


I no longer consider it a blanket, but rather a part of the tile backing, mounted by the tile robot in alternating placement. This way, the tiles have a gap filler made of the same material between them, eliminating the need for laborious hand placement.

In the third picture, the areas in green are what you see in the above two images (Tiles with the white gap fillers).  The area in red was not present with those, and there were areas on the nose cone where no tiles were present; additionally, the white backing was painted black (which resulted in the white coating of the nose cone and several areas along the spine).  The Area in orange is a special tile test area and also survived.

For those wanting to find out what's in store for V3, read this article.

Quote
Ars Technica@arstechnica
SpaceX’s lesson from last Starship flight? “We need to seal the tiles.”
ARTICLE:  SpaceX’s lesson from last Starship flight? “We need to seal the tiles.”
For those who did not read the article, the headline is slightly misleading. It's not about sealing individual tiles against moisture. It's about filling the gaps between tiles to keep the reentry plasma from reaching the ablative backup layer. In particular, they used their neat new "crush wrap" approach for most of the tiles, and it worked.  "Crush wrap" is that fabric-looking stuff that is installed under each tile indivitually with its edges sticking out of the gap all the way around. After pushing the tile down on its pins, the stuff that sticks out is trimmed flush. Apparently, this is quick to install and can fly multiple times without per-flight maintenance.

I've seen this being installed on the ship.  Let me find an image, probably from a Starship Gazer.

Presented here in this image are two samples of the specified tile type featuring the "crunch wrap." The pre-cut white fabric backing will fold between the tiles, creating a two-layer fabric structure between each tile. Alternatively, they can be arranged to alternate; in one configuration, the fabric will lie flat, and in the other, it will be installed between two tiles, causing the fabric to fold upwards and serve as a gap filler between each tile.

The second photo illustrates two tiles butting up to each other in the RED-highlighted box

Photo Credit: Starship Gazer

Sure but as shown, the blanket would interfere with the adjacent unit being placed.

Easily solvable with a bit of packaging of course, just need to be wary of friction during the install pushing one of the blanket leafs under the tile.

Easier than that.  First pass is every other Pin set, second pass filling in the gaps between them, and when pressing the tile, the blanket automatically fills in the gap. The tiles on the first pass lay flat, providing ship skin protection between tiles in case of blow-through.  Td-da.  The proof is in the picture, and note the wings being installed in the factory Starship Nursery row.
« Last Edit: 09/11/2025 02:18 am by catdlr »
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Offline Starship Trooper

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Re: Starship heat shield
« Reply #4235 on: 09/11/2025 04:59 am »
Off topic, but not entirely.  The cost ratio of titanium:stainless steel is around 15:1, and welding 9 meter titanium rings together would have to be done robotically in a gigantic tank filled with inert gas.  So there are huge economic reasons for going with steel, even for the Starship upper stage.

However, titanium has been used in megaprojects, the Russian nuclear submarine K-336 Pskov has a dry mass of 7,600 tonnes, most of that being the titanium hull.  The Starship upper stage has a dry mass of ~100 tonnes, of which almost 10 tonnes would be 6 Raptor engines.  Still, replacing the tanks, pipes, and skin with titanium could shave 40 tonnes off the mass, giving a 60 tonne Starship with 40 tonnes more payload to LEO.  The cost of 50 tonnes of titanium would be about $5 million, cheap compared to $17 Billion for rights to frequencies  ;).  The fabrication costs are the rub.

Anyway, titanium having a higher melting point than steel has to have some positives for tolerating repeated reentries.  Has titanium ever been seriously discussed as a structural material for the Starship upper stage?
« Last Edit: 09/11/2025 05:00 am by Starship Trooper »

Offline meekGee

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Re: Starship heat shield
« Reply #4236 on: 09/11/2025 05:45 am »


I no longer consider it a blanket, but rather a part of the tile backing, mounted by the tile robot in alternating placement. This way, the tiles have a gap filler made of the same material between them, eliminating the need for laborious hand placement.

In the third picture, the areas in green are what you see in the above two images (Tiles with the white gap fillers).  The area in red was not present with those, and there were areas on the nose cone where no tiles were present; additionally, the white backing was painted black (which resulted in the white coating of the nose cone and several areas along the spine).  The Area in orange is a special tile test area and also survived.

For those wanting to find out what's in store for V3, read this article.

Quote
Ars Technica@arstechnica
SpaceX’s lesson from last Starship flight? “We need to seal the tiles.”
ARTICLE:  SpaceX’s lesson from last Starship flight? “We need to seal the tiles.”
For those who did not read the article, the headline is slightly misleading. It's not about sealing individual tiles against moisture. It's about filling the gaps between tiles to keep the reentry plasma from reaching the ablative backup layer. In particular, they used their neat new "crush wrap" approach for most of the tiles, and it worked.  "Crush wrap" is that fabric-looking stuff that is installed under each tile indivitually with its edges sticking out of the gap all the way around. After pushing the tile down on its pins, the stuff that sticks out is trimmed flush. Apparently, this is quick to install and can fly multiple times without per-flight maintenance.

I've seen this being installed on the ship.  Let me find an image, probably from a Starship Gazer.

Presented here in this image are two samples of the specified tile type featuring the "crunch wrap." The pre-cut white fabric backing will fold between the tiles, creating a two-layer fabric structure between each tile. Alternatively, they can be arranged to alternate; in one configuration, the fabric will lie flat, and in the other, it will be installed between two tiles, causing the fabric to fold upwards and serve as a gap filler between each tile.

The second photo illustrates two tiles butting up to each other in the RED-highlighted box

Photo Credit: Starship Gazer

Sure but as shown, the blanket would interfere with the adjacent unit being placed.

Easily solvable with a bit of packaging of course, just need to be wary of friction during the install pushing one of the blanket leafs under the tile.

Easier than that.  First pass is every other Pin set, second pass filling in the gaps between them, and when pressing the tile, the blanket automatically fills in the gap. The tiles on the first pass lay flat, providing ship skin protection between tiles in case of blow-through.  Td-da.  The proof is in the picture, and note the wings being installed in the factory Starship Nursery row.
Can you tile hexagonals that way?  (Black and white coloring) I think not.

But if you wrap each tile in a blanket and put a tight thin band around the perimeter (think Saran wrap) it'll keep the blanket edges both orthogonal and a bit compressed, for easy frictionless rub-less installation.  Then on initial heating the Saran Wrap goes away all's well.
« Last Edit: 09/11/2025 07:15 am by meekGee »
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Offline catdlr

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Re: Starship heat shield
« Reply #4237 on: 09/11/2025 07:48 am »


I no longer consider it a blanket, but rather a part of the tile backing, mounted by the tile robot in alternating placement. This way, the tiles have a gap filler made of the same material between them, eliminating the need for laborious hand placement.

In the third picture, the areas in green are what you see in the above two images (Tiles with the white gap fillers).  The area in red was not present with those, and there were areas on the nose cone where no tiles were present; additionally, the white backing was painted black (which resulted in the white coating of the nose cone and several areas along the spine).  The Area in orange is a special tile test area and also survived.

For those wanting to find out what's in store for V3, read this article.

Quote
Ars Technica@arstechnica
SpaceX’s lesson from last Starship flight? “We need to seal the tiles.”
ARTICLE:  SpaceX’s lesson from last Starship flight? “We need to seal the tiles.”
For those who did not read the article, the headline is slightly misleading. It's not about sealing individual tiles against moisture. It's about filling the gaps between tiles to keep the reentry plasma from reaching the ablative backup layer. In particular, they used their neat new "crush wrap" approach for most of the tiles, and it worked.  "Crush wrap" is that fabric-looking stuff that is installed under each tile indivitually with its edges sticking out of the gap all the way around. After pushing the tile down on its pins, the stuff that sticks out is trimmed flush. Apparently, this is quick to install and can fly multiple times without per-flight maintenance.

I've seen this being installed on the ship.  Let me find an image, probably from a Starship Gazer.

Presented here in this image are two samples of the specified tile type featuring the "crunch wrap." The pre-cut white fabric backing will fold between the tiles, creating a two-layer fabric structure between each tile. Alternatively, they can be arranged to alternate; in one configuration, the fabric will lie flat, and in the other, it will be installed between two tiles, causing the fabric to fold upwards and serve as a gap filler between each tile.

The second photo illustrates two tiles butting up to each other in the RED-highlighted box

Photo Credit: Starship Gazer

Sure but as shown, the blanket would interfere with the adjacent unit being placed.

Easily solvable with a bit of packaging of course, just need to be wary of friction during the install pushing one of the blanket leafs under the tile.

Easier than that.  First pass is every other Pin set, second pass filling in the gaps between them, and when pressing the tile, the blanket automatically fills in the gap. The tiles on the first pass lay flat, providing ship skin protection between tiles in case of blow-through.  Td-da.  The proof is in the picture, and note the wings being installed in the factory Starship Nursery row.
Can you tile hexagonals that way?  (Black and white coloring) I think not.

But if you wrap each tile in a blanket and put a tight thin band around the perimeter (think Saran wrap) it'll keep the blanket edges both orthogonal and a bit compressed, for easy frictionless rub-less installation.  Then on initial heating the Saran Wrap goes away all's well.


It's much simpler than that, but I can't illustrate it. Imagine cupcakes with their wrappers already attached, but placing them back into the pan, with the cupcakes right up against each other, side by side. The wrappers, made of this white thermal cloth, bump up against each other when inserted. But with a slight twist, on the first pass, the cupcakes are placed in alternating holes; the white cloth on the side of the cupcake falls and lies flat. Then, on the second pass, the next set of cupcakes is inserted between the others to fill in the gaps.  That second set of cupcakes is what fills the void in between the cakes, the one used in the first pass lies flat and adds another layer of protection below the gap and the steel ship side.

Of course, that works if your Mother and you worked on making cupcakes when you were a child. I'm dead if she gave you donuts.   I'm anticipating the Ringwatchers to do a better job illustrating this.  Now I'm hungry for a cupcake.
« Last Edit: 09/11/2025 08:58 am by catdlr »
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Offline meekGee

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Re: Starship heat shield
« Reply #4238 on: 09/11/2025 09:57 am »


I no longer consider it a blanket, but rather a part of the tile backing, mounted by the tile robot in alternating placement. This way, the tiles have a gap filler made of the same material between them, eliminating the need for laborious hand placement.

In the third picture, the areas in green are what you see in the above two images (Tiles with the white gap fillers).  The area in red was not present with those, and there were areas on the nose cone where no tiles were present; additionally, the white backing was painted black (which resulted in the white coating of the nose cone and several areas along the spine).  The Area in orange is a special tile test area and also survived.

For those wanting to find out what's in store for V3, read this article.

Quote
Ars Technica@arstechnica
SpaceX’s lesson from last Starship flight? “We need to seal the tiles.”
ARTICLE:  SpaceX’s lesson from last Starship flight? “We need to seal the tiles.”
For those who did not read the article, the headline is slightly misleading. It's not about sealing individual tiles against moisture. It's about filling the gaps between tiles to keep the reentry plasma from reaching the ablative backup layer. In particular, they used their neat new "crush wrap" approach for most of the tiles, and it worked.  "Crush wrap" is that fabric-looking stuff that is installed under each tile indivitually with its edges sticking out of the gap all the way around. After pushing the tile down on its pins, the stuff that sticks out is trimmed flush. Apparently, this is quick to install and can fly multiple times without per-flight maintenance.

I've seen this being installed on the ship.  Let me find an image, probably from a Starship Gazer.

Presented here in this image are two samples of the specified tile type featuring the "crunch wrap." The pre-cut white fabric backing will fold between the tiles, creating a two-layer fabric structure between each tile. Alternatively, they can be arranged to alternate; in one configuration, the fabric will lie flat, and in the other, it will be installed between two tiles, causing the fabric to fold upwards and serve as a gap filler between each tile.

The second photo illustrates two tiles butting up to each other in the RED-highlighted box

Photo Credit: Starship Gazer

Sure but as shown, the blanket would interfere with the adjacent unit being placed.

Easily solvable with a bit of packaging of course, just need to be wary of friction during the install pushing one of the blanket leafs under the tile.

Easier than that.  First pass is every other Pin set, second pass filling in the gaps between them, and when pressing the tile, the blanket automatically fills in the gap. The tiles on the first pass lay flat, providing ship skin protection between tiles in case of blow-through.  Td-da.  The proof is in the picture, and note the wings being installed in the factory Starship Nursery row.
Can you tile hexagonals that way?  (Black and white coloring) I think not.

But if you wrap each tile in a blanket and put a tight thin band around the perimeter (think Saran wrap) it'll keep the blanket edges both orthogonal and a bit compressed, for easy frictionless rub-less installation.  Then on initial heating the Saran Wrap goes away all's well.


It's much simpler than that, but I can't illustrate it. Imagine cupcakes with their wrappers already attached, but placing them back into the pan, with the cupcakes right up against each other, side by side. The wrappers, made of this white thermal cloth, bump up against each other when inserted. But with a slight twist, on the first pass, the cupcakes are placed in alternating holes; the white cloth on the side of the cupcake falls and lies flat. Then, on the second pass, the next set of cupcakes is inserted between the others to fill in the gaps.  That second set of cupcakes is what fills the void in between the cakes, the one used in the first pass lies flat and adds another layer of protection below the gap and the steel ship side.

Of course, that works if your Mother and you worked on making cupcakes when you were a child. I'm dead if she gave you donuts.   I'm anticipating the Ringwatchers to do a better job illustrating this.  Now I'm hungry for a cupcake.
Cupcakes are on a square grid, so you can do a black-white mapping and have half of them without a circumference, and half with.

Not so easy with a hex grid...

There is a trick though. If each hex has only 2 edges covered, you can get a consistent fill, but still the rubbing issue persists.

A thin packaging band will do it though, with no installation contact, and nice symmetrical double-blanket at each edge (so it doesn't favor one tile over the other)
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Offline catdlr

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Re: Starship heat shield
« Reply #4239 on: 09/11/2025 10:57 am »


I no longer consider it a blanket, but rather a part of the tile backing, mounted by the tile robot in alternating placement. This way, the tiles have a gap filler made of the same material between them, eliminating the need for laborious hand placement.

In the third picture, the areas in green are what you see in the above two images (Tiles with the white gap fillers).  The area in red was not present with those, and there were areas on the nose cone where no tiles were present; additionally, the white backing was painted black (which resulted in the white coating of the nose cone and several areas along the spine).  The Area in orange is a special tile test area and also survived.

For those wanting to find out what's in store for V3, read this article.

Quote
Ars Technica@arstechnica
SpaceX’s lesson from last Starship flight? “We need to seal the tiles.”
ARTICLE:  SpaceX’s lesson from last Starship flight? “We need to seal the tiles.”
For those who did not read the article, the headline is slightly misleading. It's not about sealing individual tiles against moisture. It's about filling the gaps between tiles to keep the reentry plasma from reaching the ablative backup layer. In particular, they used their neat new "crush wrap" approach for most of the tiles, and it worked.  "Crush wrap" is that fabric-looking stuff that is installed under each tile indivitually with its edges sticking out of the gap all the way around. After pushing the tile down on its pins, the stuff that sticks out is trimmed flush. Apparently, this is quick to install and can fly multiple times without per-flight maintenance.

I've seen this being installed on the ship.  Let me find an image, probably from a Starship Gazer.

Presented here in this image are two samples of the specified tile type featuring the "crunch wrap." The pre-cut white fabric backing will fold between the tiles, creating a two-layer fabric structure between each tile. Alternatively, they can be arranged to alternate; in one configuration, the fabric will lie flat, and in the other, it will be installed between two tiles, causing the fabric to fold upwards and serve as a gap filler between each tile.

The second photo illustrates two tiles butting up to each other in the RED-highlighted box

Photo Credit: Starship Gazer

Sure but as shown, the blanket would interfere with the adjacent unit being placed.

Easily solvable with a bit of packaging of course, just need to be wary of friction during the install pushing one of the blanket leafs under the tile.

Easier than that.  First pass is every other Pin set, second pass filling in the gaps between them, and when pressing the tile, the blanket automatically fills in the gap. The tiles on the first pass lay flat, providing ship skin protection between tiles in case of blow-through.  Td-da.  The proof is in the picture, and note the wings being installed in the factory Starship Nursery row.
Can you tile hexagonals that way?  (Black and white coloring) I think not.

But if you wrap each tile in a blanket and put a tight thin band around the perimeter (think Saran wrap) it'll keep the blanket edges both orthogonal and a bit compressed, for easy frictionless rub-less installation.  Then on initial heating the Saran Wrap goes away all's well.


It's much simpler than that, but I can't illustrate it. Imagine cupcakes with their wrappers already attached, but placing them back into the pan, with the cupcakes right up against each other, side by side. The wrappers, made of this white thermal cloth, bump up against each other when inserted. But with a slight twist, on the first pass, the cupcakes are placed in alternating holes; the white cloth on the side of the cupcake falls and lies flat. Then, on the second pass, the next set of cupcakes is inserted between the others to fill in the gaps.  That second set of cupcakes is what fills the void in between the cakes, the one used in the first pass lies flat and adds another layer of protection below the gap and the steel ship side.

Of course, that works if your Mother and you worked on making cupcakes when you were a child. I'm dead if she gave you donuts.   I'm anticipating the Ringwatchers to do a better job illustrating this.  Now I'm hungry for a cupcake.
Cupcakes are on a square grid, so you can do a black-white mapping and have half of them without a circumference, and half with.

Not so easy with a hex grid...

There is a trick though. If each hex has only 2 edges covered, you can get a consistent fill, but still the rubbing issue persists.

A thin packaging band will do it though, with no installation contact, and nice symmetrical double-blanket at each edge (so it doesn't favor one tile over the other)

I know you have L2. While I was looking for shots of a standard Ship Transport ring, there were shots of the tiles being mounted.  Go take a look.  I view those to see what's headed our way on the public side.  Can't post them here.
« Last Edit: 09/11/2025 11:00 am by catdlr »
It's Tony De La Rosa, ...I don't create this stuff, I report it. (now a moderator too - Watch out).

 

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