Starship heat shield

[chopsticks]

Still not sure what this stuff is, but it held back two minutes of butane fury without getting warm on the far side.
 The metalic film didn't last long, but the stuffing seemed kind of ablative.

Which side is the back side here? Does the other side have the same metallic film or is it just fluffy?

[Nomadd]

Still not sure what this stuff is, but it held back two minutes of butane fury without getting warm on the far side.
 The metalic film didn't last long, but the stuffing seemed kind of ablative.

Which side is the back side here? Does the other side have the same metallic film or is it just fluffy?

Just fluffy. There's some extremely fine powder coming out when it's abused. I decided to keep it in a plastic bag and take precautions when I handle or torture it.

 It's probably just coincidence that I developed the ability to shoot flames from my eyes after I touched it.

[livingjw]

Still not sure what this stuff is, but it held back two minutes of butane fury without getting warm on the far side.
 The metalic film didn't last long, but the stuffing seemed kind of ablative.

Which side is the back side here? Does the other side have the same metallic film or is it just fluffy?

Just fluffy. There's some extremely fine powder coming out when it's abused. I decided to keep it in a plastic bag and take precautions when I handle or torture it.

 It's probably just coincidence that I developed the ability to shoot flames from my eyes after I touched it.

Any sign that it was "needled" into a blanket or just straight mat?

John

[Nomadd]

Any sign that it was "needled" into a blanket or just straight mat?
John

Straight mat.

[john smith 19]

Still not sure what this stuff is, but it held back two minutes of butane fury without getting warm on the far side.
 The metalic film didn't last long, but the stuffing seemed kind of ablative.

A quick check says butane combustion can hit 1430c/2606F.  Not bad as a 1 shot emergancy tactic to get back to the surface.

[InterestedEngineer]

Still not sure what this stuff is, but it held back two minutes of butane fury without getting warm on the far side.
 The metalic film didn't last long, but the stuffing seemed kind of ablative.

I'm surprised, it doesn't act like Saffil or Superwool:

[RamsesBic]

Still not sure what this stuff is, but it held back two minutes of butane fury without getting warm on the far side.
 The metalic film didn't last long, but the stuffing seemed kind of ablative.

I'm surprised, it doesn't act like Saffil or Superwool:

I find it odd that he uses the torch at a short distance and concentrated on one point when blasting the steel, but at 3 times the distance and moving in circles for the matt. I would have liked him to show what happens if it is given the same treatment as the steel. I would have to guess the result would not be as impressive or he would have. (But it shows anyway that such materials are good insulators)

[eriblo]

Yes, Superwool Plus has a classification temperature of 1200°C and the HT version is 1300°C so it might be able to just about handle the melting point of the steel - but the torch is quite a bit hotter than that. He has to move it quickly as the felt is made of thin fibres and the bulk density of the steel is 50x - 100x larger.

[InterestedEngineer]

Yes, Superwool Plus has a classification temperature of 1200°C and the HT version is 1300°C so it might be able to just about handle the melting point of the steel - but the torch is quite a bit hotter than that. He has to move it quickly as the felt is made of thin fibres and the bulk density of the steel is 50x - 100x larger.

I was hoping to find a superwool/saffil "test with a torch" that showed what failure looked like to see if it mirrored what @Nomadd got, but haven't found one.

In this video the hand below the pad contraindicates testing to failure.

[Nomadd]

 I'm starting to lean toward the stuff I found being cryo insulation from the tower. I see some blowing loose up there and the sheet was about the right width to wrap around the big lines.

[john smith 19]

Yes, Superwool Plus has a classification temperature of 1200°C and the HT version is 1300°C so it might be able to just about handle the melting point of the steel - but the torch is quite a bit hotter than that. He has to move it quickly as the felt is made of thin fibres and the bulk density of the steel is 50x - 100x larger.

IIRC Saffill is rated up to 1600c. Unfortunately no one seems to be able to weave it (or maybe no one has ever tried?) Normally used as a felt or batting.

Saffil was designed to replace Asbestos (without killing people). In the 50's there was a certain amount of work on fiber reinforced phenolic composite ("Durestos"). Asbestos was stiffer than glass fibre (not sure if Saffil is or not).

There are some ways the operating temperature of polymers could be pushed above 500c, but that's another conversation.

[Taxidermista]

I was hoping to find in this thread some discussion about the recently tested LOFTID inflatable shield and the feasibility of a future application on a Starship but surprisingly couldn't find any. Is that option an unreasonable one?

[adrianwyard]

It's hard to see how something like LOFTID could be made 'rapidly reusable', so is not a good fit for Starship as currently conceived. It will have its uses though, I'm sure.

[Nomadd]

 A couple of fin fairings and a piece of something that I'm not sure about sitting out back.

[RamsesBic]

A couple of fin fairings and a piece of something that I'm not sure about sitting out back.

It looks like the frames of the tiles stick out on the sides.

[edzieba]

That would likely be how the rails are inserted after sintering - rather than needing the rails to survive sintering furnace temperatures without deformation inside the tile preforms. The tiles are quite friable, so little mechanical force would be needed to push them in without any prior milling of channels.
How to get through the Borosilicate glass coating without fracturing it would be the tricky bit. Could be a hairline gap masked off during the glass application process, could be a milled slot in just the glass layer to allow insertion, or very careful insertion right through the unmodified glass layer to avoid spreading cracks.

[BT52]

Agree with u. This is done mechanically. Sharp  and good  fixture. Depends how brittle material is really.

Or less likely. During suntering there are preinstalled ceramic inserts before baking process. Those are removed atfer coating. Or are even pull out with steel profile that goes inside as we see from picture.

[RamsesBic]

That would likely be how the rails are inserted after sintering - rather than needing the rails to survive sintering furnace temperatures without deformation inside the tile preforms. The tiles are quite friable, so little mechanical force would be needed to push them in without any prior milling of channels.
How to get through the Borosilicate glass coating without fracturing it would be the tricky bit. Could be a hairline gap masked off during the glass application process, could be a milled slot in just the glass layer to allow insertion, or very careful insertion right through the unmodified glass layer to avoid spreading cracks.

After watching tiles being cracked and removed, the frames many times are the last to be romoved and are Y-shaped. Can't see how you can insert a Y-shaped frame after sintering.

[edzieba]

That would likely be how the rails are inserted after sintering - rather than needing the rails to survive sintering furnace temperatures without deformation inside the tile preforms. The tiles are quite friable, so little mechanical force would be needed to push them in without any prior milling of channels.
How to get through the Borosilicate glass coating without fracturing it would be the tricky bit. Could be a hairline gap masked off during the glass application process, could be a milled slot in just the glass layer to allow insertion, or very careful insertion right through the unmodified glass layer to avoid spreading cracks.

After watching tiles being cracked and removed, the frames many times are the last to be romoved and are Y-shaped. Can't see how you can insert a Y-shaped frame after sintering.

One arm at a time, meeting in the centre. The frames are what are retained by the clip pins, so tiles that have fractured are easier to remove 'around' the mounted frame, which will hold to the clip pins all on its own. Whole tiles being removed have holes drilled to access the pins, which are than released from the frame internally and the whole tile assembly removed.

[Nomadd]

A couple of fin fairings and a piece of something that I'm not sure about sitting out back.

It looks like the frames of the tiles stick out on the sides.

The frames use to be shorter and completely buried. They were where most of the ones I saw failed.
They were three separate pieces instead of Ys originally. I'm not sure about these.