Author Topic: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion  (Read 292274 times)

Offline fael097

If those are 8' tall shipping containers the rolls could be 8-10 feet long.

Stretching the guesswork further, they may have had them pre-cut for length to where 1 roll = 1 ring circumference.

Extra points if somewhere they're using the bulletproof* 3mm 301 stainless steel they're using on Cybertruck.

* for 9mm

taller than tose ~70" mk2 rings but not much taller than the double ring assembly used on mk1, which was 100".
Rafael Adamy

Offline Seamore Holdings

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #521 on: 11/22/2019 10:19 pm »
Noticed today, 22 November 2019, several portable generators being loaded on flatbed trucks at the Cocoa site. I also noticed somebody parking their boat in the new parking lot. Looks like things will be slow for awhile.
I also noticed two "new" shorty containers on site being washed down. They will probably be getting some white paint. They have enough containers on site to raise the wide tent by placing it on top of the two shortys and two normal size containers.
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Offline Seamore Holdings

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #522 on: 11/22/2019 10:53 pm »
Is it time to say MK4 is not going to be assembled and go with MK6? To support my argument, I would say that MK4 was pretty much build. With the 22 rings in the yard and the upper curved section in the hangar (see picture). One ring actually got stacked on a base. There is at least one bulkhead in the main building and the one at the Kennedy Space Center that might have also been produced for MK4.
In my opinion MK4 was almost completely built just not assembled. Now that 5 rings have been scraped so far, I can also report that the upper curved section in the hangar has also "disappeared" since 15 November 2019.
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Offline Eka

The wide tent in foreground of this picture (credit Seamore Holdings) is the tent, I suspect will be raise up soon to fit Ultra-tall single weld ring manufacturing. Notice the white rectangles between the two tent areas. Those are stacks of newly delivered steel sheets. I do not expect changes in dome construction or nose cone construction.

I wonder if these blue cylinders are double height steel rolls. Whatever they are, the blue stuff is definitely a removable protective layer since you can see some of it that has been removed and discarded on the ground outside of the tent.
Those look too tightly wound to be stainless steel plate rolls.

I'm betting very little of the new 30X stainless steel is on site yet if any. I wonder if they can even roll it before use. It bounced a sledge hammer in the Cybrtrk reveal.
We talk about creating a Star Trek future, but will end up with The Expanse if radical change doesn't happen.

They will probably raise the wide tent at Cocoa by one or two containers, and we can expect to see Ultra-Tall single weld rings very soon.

Who says they are going to raise the tent with cargo containers?

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Notice the white rectangles between the two tent areas.

Okay who says they contain steel? I've dug through the available drone footage and can't tell what they are. They are containers they could contain anything? I've also seen no origin to the insistence that ultar tall rings will be made. Where is your info coming from?

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Noticed today, 22 November 2019, several portable generators being loaded on flatbed trucks at the Cocoa site. I also noticed somebody parking their boat in the new parking lot. Looks like things will be slow for awhile.

All the drone footage from today shows is a flatbed truck sitting with generators on it. No loading or unloading visible? Are you in FL at the yard? I can think of a dozen reasons some generators are being moved out, doesn't mean they aren't going ahead with their work and a boat? Seriously a boat in the parking lot means... nothing. I got a friend who tows his boat on Fridays to work because he leaves for the lake after work.

As for the nosecone are you sure it's not been moved somewhere else inside that sprung fabric VAB? I mean seriously a structure like that from the distance is pretty hard to see into it everywhere.



Offline Seamore Holdings

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #525 on: 11/23/2019 07:02 pm »


Who says they are going to raise the tent with cargo containers?
Hi Brian,
Just me, based on seeing a large new overhead rig that has not made an appearance yet, but was delivered in early November. Also the two new containers that appeared yesterday made me conclude some tent on site was getting lifted.  After seeing pictures from Boca Chica of their new containers being stacked up, I am guessing the new equipment will need more height. With other large containers on site they have enough to lift the wide tent. However, they can lift any tent on site as high as they want. Just a guess that they will lift the wide tent.

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Okay who says they contain steel? I've dug through the available drone footage and can't tell what they are. They are containers they could contain anything? I've also seen no origin to the insistence that ultar tall rings will be made. Where is your info coming from?

The large white rectangles are not containers. There look just like the steel sheets that were on site back in July. These were recently delivered. I am using photos to make my conclusions, not the videos.

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All the drone footage from today shows is a flatbed truck sitting with generators on it. No loading or unloading visible? Are you in FL at the yard? I can think of a dozen reasons some generators are being moved out, doesn't mean they aren't going ahead with their work and a boat? Seriously a boat in the parking lot means... nothing. I got a friend who tows his boat on Fridays to work because he leaves for the lake after work.

The generators were being loaded, you will just have to trust me on that. The boat doesn't have to mean anything, except that they have gone from parking on the grass to filling a new parking lot to having space to park your boat on a Friday. In the first week of November that lot was full. I found it interesting.

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As for the nosecone are you sure it's not been moved somewhere else inside that sprung fabric VAB? I mean seriously a structure like that from the distance is pretty hard to see into it everywhere.
Not talking about the nosecone, but the top of the upper section where it starts to curve. All I can say is there is a lot of cut up steel pieces sitting out side the hangar right now. Pretty sure that curved section is not there any longer.

I will try to only provide what I see and try not to make too many conclusions in the same post from now on.
« Last Edit: 11/23/2019 07:05 pm by Seamore Holdings »
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Offline nuukee

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #526 on: 11/23/2019 07:08 pm »
I will try to only provide what I see and try not to make too many conclusions in the same post from now on.

Hi John, you can do this in the updates thread. Please don't hold back your speculation here, this is what the discussion thread is for and I like your input.

Just me, based on seeing a large new overhead rig that has not made an appearance yet, but was delivered in early November.

Thank you, that makes it clearer. Way I was reading is you had first hand info no one else had. Also the rig could be intended for use in the VAB or whatever you want to call the multistory stretched fabric structure.

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The large white rectangles are not containers. There look just like the steel sheets that were on site back in July. These were recently delivered. I am using photos to make my conclusions, not the videos.

Hmmm, I doubt we are going to see a return to plate construction for the main cylinder. Single weld rings are likely here to stay. It could be metal for bulkheads, nose cone, fins, raceway covers... But I doubt cylinders. With consistent thickness all around it makes no sense to go back to plate and increase weld count. Unless they are going back to perspiration cooling, which i doubt. But then never say never with SpaceX. The new Steel for cybertruck is impressive.

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Not talking about the nosecone, but the top of the upper section where it starts to curve. All I can say is there is a lot of cut up steel pieces sitting out side the hangar right now. Pretty sure that curved section is not there any longer.

Sorry I know I'm technically wrong but where it starts to narrow I've always considered the nosecone. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have another botched one. They keep trying to free hand these narrowing curved pieces, so to speak and I don't think it's ultimately going to work. Boca went through two top sections and still really didn't get a good fit. At some point they are going to have to break down and just build a jig, similar to the builkhead jig, or pre-build the internal structure and wrap the metal around it.

Boca I remember cut apart an early bulkhead before they had a jig. The tapering sections are obviously a problem for both Boca and Coca.

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will try to only provide what I see and try not to make too many conclusions in the same post from now on.

Don't let me stop you. This whole forum is 99% speculation, it was just worded more as fact to me, instead of speculation and that was throwing me.

We live in interesting times so have fun.

Offline vaporcobra

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #528 on: 11/24/2019 03:43 am »


Color me intrigued! Possible horizontal transport hardware?

Offline kkattula

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #529 on: 11/24/2019 03:49 am »
So what appear to be transport cradles have appeared on the newly paved section leading through to Fedex?

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48893.msg2018599#msg2018599
« Last Edit: 11/24/2019 03:50 am by kkattula »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #530 on: 11/24/2019 11:13 am »
So what appear to be transport cradles have appeared on the newly paved section leading through to Fedex?

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48893.msg2018599#msg2018599

Yep, looking like Mk 2 may be on the move soon?

https://twitter.com/john_winkopp/status/1198564630597120002

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The big move of @SpaceX #Starship #MK2 appears to be happening soon. (credit @Andy_trains screen capture) There was activity at the barge loading point last week. There have been taking scaffolding out of the lower section.

Offline Seamore Holdings

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #531 on: 11/24/2019 11:25 am »
Equipment coming out of lower section. Scaffolding coming out of upper section. Area around nose cone getting moved out of the way.
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Offline Seamore Holdings

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #532 on: 11/24/2019 11:30 am »
Work at the barge loading point at Hyw 528. Cleaning out trash and some new concrete.
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Offline fael097

I don't think the plans changed that much from when they started building Mk1 and Mk2, I think public expectations were just a bit off (maybe Elon helped with that). The very reason there was a competition between Boca Chica and Cococa was to test different manufacturing methods, which they did (and are still doing), and now are applying the results. The race to orbit was never about if either Mk1 or Mk2 can do it first, it was always about which team does it first.

RUDs, embarassing or not, were always on the table, and not flying Mk1 and/or Mk2 may have been too.

I find interesting that recently they scrapped more of the mk4 rings, but not all of them. the fact that they scrapped the first mk3 ring maybe isn't a signal that they are changing the fabrication method, maybe just that one ring didn't turn out so good and they decided to scrap it, just like many of the mk4 rings.

They might do another max pressure test with Mk2 to compare the results of the same test using their different manufacturing methods.

There's a single weld ring on top of the Mk2's bottom section. I don't think the bulkhead is welded onto this ring, but still significant. Might affect the test results and give them some interesting data.
« Last Edit: 11/24/2019 02:50 pm by fael097 »
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Offline Ulysses S

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #534 on: 11/24/2019 04:58 pm »
What I see.              The ship called mk2    goes to the launch site and is finished with out landing gear and the tanks tested  then  is launched to 20K with three non vac raptors. The foils are activated to sky dive / float and the ship slowed and the flip and ignite sequence tested.  Mk 2 lands in the ocean and becomes a reef. Then the new designs will follow               

Offline marsbase

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #535 on: 11/24/2019 05:14 pm »
Is that evidence that we're seeing the new 30X cold-rolled stainless steel?
I haven't seen anything on 30X.  Perhaps I missed the relevant thread.  Can you give me a link to what you have seen on 30X?

Offline Johnnyhinbos

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #536 on: 11/24/2019 05:16 pm »
What I see.              The ship called mk2    goes to the launch site and is finished with out landing gear and the tanks tested  then  is launched to 20K with three non vac raptors. The foils are activated to sky dive / float and the ship slowed and the flip and ignite sequence tested.  Mk 2 lands in the ocean and becomes a reef. Then the new designs will follow               
So - you're saying that SpaceX is willing to risk 39A with a tank test (after what they just had happen in BC), let alone launch AND landing of a first iteration of Starship? Keep in mind that a 6,000kg chunk of metal just blew 300' into the air and landed on the other side of the highway...


No - personally I don't see SpaceX risking any of that. MK3 will be the first test and flight.
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Offline BigPony

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #537 on: 11/24/2019 05:40 pm »
The panels on the new bulkhead look like a different color than the previous ones we've seen. They have a darker patina than the usual mirror-like SS we are used to, and not unlike the color of the recently unveiled Tesla Cybertruck.

Is that evidence that we're seeing the new 30X cold-rolled stainless steel?

I sure hope not. Look at the section with the yellow writing on it. It is misshapen and even gouged up at the bottom. If that is new it does not speak well of the new technique.

Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #538 on: 11/24/2019 07:04 pm »
Is that evidence that we're seeing the new 30X cold-rolled stainless steel?
I haven't seen anything on 30X.  Perhaps I missed the relevant thread.  Can you give me a link to what you have seen on 30X?

I deleted my post because it was not from Florida activity, but activity in Texas  :o

To answer your question, all I know is from the Cybertruck unveil, where Elon Musk said:

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It is, it is literally bulletproof to a nine millimeter handgun, Musk said onstage during the unveiling. Thats how strong the skin is its ultra-hard, cold-rolled stainless steel alloy that weve developed. Were going to be using the same alloy in the Starship rocket, and in the Cybertruck.

And on the Tesla website for the Cybertruck:

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ULTRA-HARD 30X COLD-ROLLED STAINLESS STEEL
If there was something better, wed use it. Help eliminate dents, damage and long-term corrosion with a smooth monochrome exoskeleton that puts the shell on the outside of the car and provides you and your passengers maximum protection.
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline Wargrim

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Florida Prototype(s) Thread 2 : Discussion
« Reply #539 on: 11/24/2019 07:20 pm »
What I see.              The ship called mk2    goes to the launch site and is finished with out landing gear and the tanks tested  then  is launched to 20K with three non vac raptors. The foils are activated to sky dive / float and the ship slowed and the flip and ignite sequence tested.  Mk 2 lands in the ocean and becomes a reef. Then the new designs will follow               
So - you're saying that SpaceX is willing to risk 39A with a tank test (after what they just had happen in BC), let alone launch AND landing of a first iteration of Starship? Keep in mind that a 6,000kg chunk of metal just blew 300' into the air and landed on the other side of the highway...


No - personally I don't see SpaceX risking any of that. MK3 will be the first test and flight.

Jea, and even if SpaceX was willing to take that risk, NASA would likely have a word or two about tests that endanger the very tower it expects to use to put astronauts on a rocket to the ISS. Which they pay SpaceX for.

So the higher risk profile tests are most likely to remain a Boca Chica speciality.

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