LowerAtmosphere -I was meaning something quite prosaic really, which may actually be embedded in the mode shape simulations seen here, though I suspect not.A frustrum in resonance has wall currents. The current densities are not uniform, in a gross sense: by which I mean that the current round the sides of the frustrum might be very different to the current in the end caps. If I'm understanding right, the mutual Lorentz forces from these currents are meant to be in balance, producing zero net force.But as the current densities differ, ohmic heating differs - that's why mode shapes have been viewed with a thermal camera.When copper gets hot, it's resistance increases, and you would expect the pattern of current flows to change. If they stayed the same, power dissipation would rise, and that's fixed by the input power to the frustrum. So that's a different current pattern to the one which previously had no net Lorentz force, and one which is slowly changing to boot.At this point intuition fails me: but I would guess that COMSOL might be able to simulate resistance changing with temperature, and temperature with current.
Quote from: flux_capacitor on 07/09/2018 02:53 pmTheoretical calculation for ideal cavities that fail to predict several real experimental phenomena, as well as discrete and incomplete simulations involving Maxwell equations only, can't account for any propellantless thrust. This is true.However as Rodal also pointed out many times on these boards, such calculations and simulations fail to take into account the possibility that the EmDrive is not a closed system. If there is any kind of field propulsion making the EmDrive an open system, propellantless propulsion (not reactionless propulsion!) becomes non-impossible. No current calculation or EM simulation based on Maxwell laws only can predict such an effect.On the other hand I agree that Shawyer's simple explanation about the radiation pressure imbalance between the two end plates as the cause of thrust does not correctly fall in the true definition of an "open system".But Mach effects, quantised inertia, scalar–tensor theories -among others- qualify for the possibility of an open system and a field-effect propulsion for the EmDrive.I was responding to TT's post where he incorrectly represents the results of standard electrodynamics. I would appreciate it if you stopped misrepresenting the context of what I was saying, obviously I was not talking about a situation where there is some background that the emDrive pushes off. Your tangent here is a waste of everyone's time, and can only serve to confuse anyone who doesn't know better about whether or not TT has a point. (Based on likes, at least one person was tricked by his non-response that literally ignored what I had already said.)We clearly are in agreement about the basic physics here, so can we just agree that we are in violent agreement, and move on to something useful?
Theoretical calculation for ideal cavities that fail to predict several real experimental phenomena, as well as discrete and incomplete simulations involving Maxwell equations only, can't account for any propellantless thrust. This is true.However as Rodal also pointed out many times on these boards, such calculations and simulations fail to take into account the possibility that the EmDrive is not a closed system. If there is any kind of field propulsion making the EmDrive an open system, propellantless propulsion (not reactionless propulsion!) becomes non-impossible. No current calculation or EM simulation based on Maxwell laws only can predict such an effect.On the other hand I agree that Shawyer's simple explanation about the radiation pressure imbalance between the two end plates as the cause of thrust does not correctly fall in the true definition of an "open system".But Mach effects, quantised inertia, scalar–tensor theories -among others- qualify for the possibility of an open system and a field-effect propulsion for the EmDrive.
Meberbs, if you wish to have us laud you or agree then back up your points with mathematics not attempts to bully the opposing party into agreement. On behalf of all the "tangent"* creators, we thank you. *Tangents... in physics? A good joke!
Quote from: scienceguy on 07/08/2018 02:06 amwhat does it take to reflect a microwave? A metal? Or will another microwave reflect a microwave?Microwave photons do not reflect nor bounce.Instead the photon impacts an orbital electron, is absorbed and almost immediatley re emitted. If the impact and emit events are elastic, ie there is no momentum nor energy transfer between photon and atom, the emitted photon freq is the same as the impacted photon freq. If the event is nonelastic, ie momentum and energy are exchanged between photon and atom, then the freq of the emitted photon will not match that of the impacted photon.EmDrive acceleration is the result of assymetric nonelastic impact and emit events where the gained accelerated mass' momentum and KE is sourced from lost photon momentum and energy, which causes the photon emitted freq to decrease. As the photons lose monentum to the gained accelerated mass momentum, CofM is conserved. Likewise gained acceelerated mass KE is sourced from loss photon energy and CofE is conserved.Question to be experimentally proved is can a tapered resonant cavity generate an assymetric force? If it can be shown to happen, then it follows why and how CofM and CofE are conserved without expelling mass. Ie the wavelength lengthened photons, with lower momentum, are what carries away the required Newton 3 momentum gain of the accelerated mass.Would be interesting for someone to ray trace an averaged photon pathway, from say big end plate to small end plate and back to big end plate, in a TE013 resonant cavity. Some may be very surprised what that exercise will reveal. Can share that for a round trip there will be 8 side wall & end plate impact and emit events.Even more interesting to work out the radiation pressure that will be generated at each impact and emit event. Thoughts the radiation pressure will be the same at each impact and emit event site are very wrong. Likewise thoughts that the overall force will be zero are also very wrong.Such a simple exercise but after so many years, as far as I know, no one here has ever actually done the calculations but instead made statement, without any proof, the overall force would be zero.
what does it take to reflect a microwave? A metal? Or will another microwave reflect a microwave?
Back to stealth mode and being very busy.
Quote from: SeeShells on 07/08/2018 06:00 amBack to stealth mode and being very busy.Somewhat OT, Shell, but... I hope you're ok ! Time ago I heard about your health issues, I just hope your "stealth mode" is just due to some personal business and that you're fineAll the best.
I'm fine, much better, thanks for asking. True I have been making up lost time in research, personal work and haven't posted much.
Look forward to the time to read NSF. One post perked my interest. It was a reference to the comment that Dr. Rodal stated several times the EM drive must interact outside world and cannot be a closed thruster. I've also stated the very things. Honestly, not sure who posted it first (doesn't matter really) but for the drive to work with universal conservation laws it has to. Either by the Woodward Mach Effect or even Dr. White's QV Pilot Wave theory or something else involving a mix of both.
Very slowly it's happening. Work by EagleWorks Labs and Dr. White is quiet and Dr. Woodward's team is just now preparing to garner more concrete data on the MEGA. March is buried in his new lab doing his thing (I have a feeling we will be impressed with Paul's work). Jamie is setting the bar for his work. Me? I've been working towards building a cloud chamber because nobody has done one and it's sorely needed.
Jokes on having my head in the clouds are welcome...
UPDATE: It appears emdrive.wiki has been dehosted??? Latest archive: https://web.archive.org/web/*/emdrive.wikiIf dehosted permanently this would be a huge loss. I know many of us contributed to it.
My theory:There are two localized resonances, with one on each side of flat end plates cavity.
Ps: The Tx3xx "mode" is suspect in this theory.
Quote from: Ricvil on 07/12/2018 01:15 amMy theory:There are two localized resonances, with one on each side of flat end plates cavity.Please explain this further. The resonance is occurring inside the endplate and this is reconciled via the standing wave? Perhaps illustrate your idea with vector arrows or some other diagram which shows us exactly how you believe the endplates are behaving. Negative pressure due to squeezed vacuum or? More details please. Thank you.
From Seeker.German scientists have just tested NASA’s EM drive... Does it work now
Quote from: Star One on 07/14/2018 11:41 amFrom Seeker.German scientists have just tested NASA’s EM drive... Does it work nowI stopped watching when she said the force is most likely due to the "interaction of the metal drive with the earth's magnetic field." They even show a graphic! The paper clearly stated the interaction was likely with the wires, not the copper frustum.
Quote from: ThatOtherGuy on 07/10/2018 02:29 pmQuote from: SeeShells on 07/08/2018 06:00 amBack to stealth mode and being very busy.Somewhat OT, Shell, but... I hope you're ok ! Time ago I heard about your health issues, I just hope your "stealth mode" is just due to some personal business and that you're fineAll the best.I'm fine, much better, thanks for asking. True I have been making up lost time in research, personal work and haven't posted much. Look forward to the time to read NSF. One post perked my interest. It was a reference to the comment that Dr. Rodal stated several times the EM drive must interact outside world and cannot be a closed thruster. I've also stated the very things. Honestly, not sure who posted it first (doesn't matter really) but for the drive to work with universal conservation laws it has to. Either by the Woodward Mach Effect or even Dr. White's QV Pilot Wave theory or something else involving a mix of both. Very slowly it's happening. Work by EagleWorks Labs and Dr. White is quiet and Dr. Woodward's team is just now preparing to garner more concrete data on the MEGA. March is buried in his new lab doing his thing (I have a feeling we will be impressed with Paul's work). Jamie is setting the bar for his work. Me? I've been working towards building a cloud chamber because nobody has done one and it's sorely needed. Jokes on having my head in the clouds are welcome... My very Best,ShellSlight edit...
Quote from: SeeShells on 07/10/2018 04:49 pmQuote from: ThatOtherGuy on 07/10/2018 02:29 pmQuote from: SeeShells on 07/08/2018 06:00 amBack to stealth mode and being very busy.Somewhat OT, Shell, but... I hope you're ok ! Time ago I heard about your health issues, I just hope your "stealth mode" is just due to some personal business and that you're fineAll the best.I'm fine, much better, thanks for asking. True I have been making up lost time in research, personal work and haven't posted much. Look forward to the time to read NSF. One post perked my interest. It was a reference to the comment that Dr. Rodal stated several times the EM drive must interact outside world and cannot be a closed thruster. I've also stated the very things. Honestly, not sure who posted it first (doesn't matter really) but for the drive to work with universal conservation laws it has to. Either by the Woodward Mach Effect or even Dr. White's QV Pilot Wave theory or something else involving a mix of both. Very slowly it's happening. Work by EagleWorks Labs and Dr. White is quiet and Dr. Woodward's team is just now preparing to garner more concrete data on the MEGA. March is buried in his new lab doing his thing (I have a feeling we will be impressed with Paul's work). Jamie is setting the bar for his work. Me? I've been working towards building a cloud chamber because nobody has done one and it's sorely needed. Jokes on having my head in the clouds are welcome... My very Best,ShellSlight edit...Michelle:How large a cloud chamber are you planning to or are you building now? The last time I built a cloud chamber it was back in my 1965 high school physics lab where we built a cloud chamber out of a glass Erlenmeyer flask with 70% rubbing alcohol and dry ice at the bottom that we could then pull a partial vacuum on it with a bicycle hand pump. We could see various decay products coming off a uranium sample at the bottom of the chamber that our physics teach Mr. Eblen supplied for the experiment."March is buried in his new lab doing his thing (I have a feeling we will be impressed with Paul's work)."Sadly a lot less work has been accomplished in my home lab of late than I would have liked due to my right arm bicep tendon injury last April that I experienced while trying to lift a 215 pound cabinet in the lab, and the lack of funds needed for lab upgrades and builds due to other more pressing family commitments. Thus it appears that I will have little to show when Sue and I go up to Estes Park for this coming September 2018 SSI Mach-Effect workshop. However, Woodward and Fearn should have some interesting new experiments to talk about. Hope to see your there.Best, Paul M.
Roger Shawyer conducted a seminar at Dresden Technical University last week and has released some new info:EmDrive PropulsionRoger Shawyer, SPR LtdTechnical University Dresden11th July 2018as attachedWould be interesting to know what was the reaction from Martin Tajmar and his team?