Author Topic: Resource Prospector  (Read 106886 times)

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #140 on: 05/01/2018 10:33 am »
The small landers are testing their engines so small payloads could be sent to the Moon within 3-4 years by a university.


Even assuming that timeline is accurate, there's no clear indication of the value of a small lander. What are the actual requirements? What could actually be done with a small landed payload?

They're still wandering around on this, trying to figure out what to do and why, and who could actually do it.

Online TrevorMonty

Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #141 on: 05/01/2018 04:14 pm »
The small landers are testing their engines so small payloads could be sent to the Moon within 3-4 years by a university.


Even assuming that timeline is accurate, there's no clear indication of the value of a small lander. What are the actual requirements? What could actually be done with a small landed payload?

They're still wandering around on this, trying to figure out what to do and why, and who could actually do it.
In case of RP is was develop a mission, then payload/equipment to do it. Next came rover to carry payload then finally lander to deliver it. Typical NASA robotic mission.

They are switching to what missions or parts of missions can we do using commercially available landers and rovers.

Moon Express MX1 and Astrobotic's Peregrine will be first commercial landers. There are also small commercial rovers in development that can use these landers.

Landed payload mass these of landers varies a lot based on launch vehicle used. I think Peregrine needs likes of Atlas ad F9 while MX1 and MX2 can make use of Electron, LauncherOne and Firefly Alpha when its available.


Offline Blackstar

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #142 on: 05/01/2018 05:46 pm »
]In case of RP is was develop a mission, then payload/equipment to do it. Next came rover to carry payload then finally lander to deliver it. Typical NASA robotic mission.


No. That's not what was going on at all.

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #143 on: 05/01/2018 06:23 pm »
The small landers are testing their engines so small payloads could be sent to the Moon within 3-4 years by a university.


Even assuming that timeline is accurate, there's no clear indication of the value of a small lander. What are the actual requirements? What could actually be done with a small landed payload?

They're still wandering around on this, trying to figure out what to do and why, and who could actually do it.
In case of RP is was develop a mission, then payload/equipment to do it. Next came rover to carry payload then finally lander to deliver it. Typical NASA robotic mission.

They are switching to what missions or parts of missions can we do using commercially available landers and rovers.

Moon Express MX1 and Astrobotic's Peregrine will be first commercial landers. There are also small commercial rovers in development that can use these landers.

Landed payload mass these of landers varies a lot based on launch vehicle used. I think Peregrine needs likes of Atlas ad F9 while MX1 and MX2 can make use of Electron, LauncherOne and Firefly Alpha when its available.


Astrobotic is simultaneously building Peregrine and Griffin and are somewhat comparable with MX-1 and MX-2 respectively,

Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #144 on: 05/01/2018 07:41 pm »
The most significant thing to come out of the RP work was the very sophisticated software needed for mission planning - using the excellent topographic datasets we have now to map the very dynamic lighting and communication environment and to plan rover operations.  This work has been reported at LEAG annual meetings, LPSC meetings, NASA Lunar Science Forums (and variant names for those meetings, held at NASA Ames each July), and elsewhere. 

First it helped plan short-lived missions in areas experiencing fleeting illumination as shadows sweep across the landing area.  Later it was used to plan longer missions which could charge up in areas of persistent sunlight and dip into shadows when the lighting permitted.  All that work remains, and will be invaluable for planning any future variation of RP that might arise.  I should also point out that Astrobotic has done similar work independently, and an illustration of it can be seen on their website. 

The attached map illustrates some of these studies, part of a larger project to record this material.  This area is north of Haworth crater and southwest of Malapert Mountain, at about 86.5 south, 350 east.

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #145 on: 05/03/2018 05:52 pm »
Quote
May 3, 2018

NASA Expands Plans for Moon Exploration: More Missions, More Science

NASA is returning to the Moon with commercial and international partners as part of an overall agency Exploration Campaign in support of Space Policy Directive 1. It all starts with robotic missions on the lunar surface, as well as a Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway for astronauts in space beyond the Moon. Right now, NASA is preparing to purchase new small lunar payload delivery services, develop lunar landers, and conduct more research on the Moon’s surface ahead of a human return. And that long-term exploration and development of the Moon will give us the experience for the next giant leap – human missions to Mars and destinations beyond.

[...]

NASA has identified a variety of exploration, science, and technology objectives that could be addressed by regularly sending instruments, experiments and other small payloads to the Moon. Some of those payloads will be developed from the agency’s Resource Prospector mission concept. This project was intended as a one-time effort to explore a specific location on the Moon, and as designed, now is too limited in scope for the agency’s expanded lunar exploration focus. NASA’s return to the Moon will include many missions to locate, extract and process elements across bigger areas of the lunar surface. The agency is evolving Resource Prospector to fit into its broader exploration strategy, and selected robotic instruments will be among the early deliveries to the Moon on CLPS missions.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/nasa-expands-plans-for-moon-exploration-more-missions-more-science

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #146 on: 05/03/2018 10:29 pm »
NASA Statement on Resource Prospector and RESOLVE Costs

Status Report From: NASA HQ
Posted: Thursday, May 3, 2018

NASA's early prototype work on the Regolith and Environmental Science and Oxygen and Lunar Volatiles Extraction or RESOLVE project, which was an integrated set of general prospecting payloads, provided the basis for the initial instruments for the Resource Prospector (RP) mission concept. The agency invested an estimated $22 million in RESOLVE's early technology development/prototyping efforts. Since the RP team was formed in 2014 after the completion of a mission concept review, NASA has invested an estimated total of $80 million toward refining the mission concept and mission-specific risk reduction activities.. NASA's overall Resource Prospector work toward risk reduction activities to advance instrument developments, component technologies including rover components, and innovation mission operations concepts will help inform future missions. An agency review to send selected instruments from Resource Prospector to the Moon is ongoing.


Offline AegeanBlue

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #147 on: 02/15/2019 06:09 pm »
Instruments from cancelled lunar rover will be used in future missions

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/nation-world/space/article/Instruments-from-cancelled-lunar-rover-will-be-13616931.php

There was also a NASA report some 6 months after RP was cancelled that over 90% of the staff that had worked on RP was still working at NASA and the rest had mostly retired

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #148 on: 02/15/2019 08:18 pm »
There was also a NASA report some 6 months after RP was cancelled that over 90% of the staff that had worked on RP was still working at NASA and the rest had mostly retired

I've never seen a good article on RP that explained what it really was. You'd have to see a bunch of presentations and talk to people to really understand it, but RP was in many ways a "make work" project to provide a project to work on for people who did not have other projects to work on (often referred to as "uncovered capacity," meaning that the civil servants were not covered with a project they could charge their time to). If you want to know why RP spun its wheels for years and never proceeded toward development, that's a big reason--it was never supposed to.

I thought that a lot of the kvetching after its cancellation was misplaced, and also proved that this was a blunder by NASA (and the powers that be). They were not really cancelling anything, but they took a public relations hit because it looked like they were canceling their only lunar project at a time when NASA was supposed to be going to the Moon.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #149 on: 02/17/2019 02:06 pm »
"There’s also another reason to do lunar surface exploration --- the distinct possibility of looking for and finding alien artifacts, left there by some visiting extraterrestrial civilization. Arizona State University astrophysicist Paul Davies, a longtime proponent of such an initiative, told me that rovers in conjunction with high resolution lunar satellites are the best option for such an effort."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucedorminey/2019/02/17/nasa-lunar-rover-missions-are-woefully-overdue/?fbclid=IwAR0iokZcL4p-VAOnWZ94xT3VY9c0nROfUiKdLc4JsprAShl8dcasp7j4JL8#609a358a268e

Offline Lar

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #150 on: 02/17/2019 02:14 pm »
Alien artifacts? That's not at all woo woo...  LOL

Is it better to get public support via woo woo stuff like this or not? I'm thinking not but I could be wrong
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #151 on: 02/18/2019 05:37 am »
Looking for alien artefacts was not the reason why the US and Soviet Lunar bases on the Moon were set up in 2001: A Space Odyssey. They were there to use the Moon for scientific purposes (and probably political as well). That's the reason for going there and the only one that should be argued if using public money. If there do happen to be alien artefacts, they will then be probably be found, just like in 2001, in the course of those scientific investigations. The odds of that though are probably equal to epsilon (a very small number close to zero).
« Last Edit: 02/18/2019 05:46 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline zubenelgenubi

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #152 on: 02/18/2019 05:52 am »
"There’s also another reason to do lunar surface exploration --- the distinct possibility of looking for and finding alien artifacts, left there by some visiting extraterrestrial civilization. Arizona State University astrophysicist Paul Davies, a longtime proponent of such an initiative, told me that rovers in conjunction with high resolution lunar satellites are the best option for such an effort."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucedorminey/2019/02/17/nasa-lunar-rover-missions-are-woefully-overdue/?fbclid=IwAR0iokZcL4p-VAOnWZ94xT3VY9c0nROfUiKdLc4JsprAShl8dcasp7j4JL8#609a358a268e

First Avi Loeb, next Paul Davies?

If a grad student or even a post-doc started spouting WOO-WOO content like this, that person might end up as a perennial adjunct professor or selling used cars.

(Or as a planetarium director--don't worry, it's just a JOKE!) 8)

Tenure hath its priveleges... ::)

OTOH... ;D

(Don't mind me; just a Senior Member enjoying a senior moment; LOLing.  Back to the serious stuff.)
« Last Edit: 02/18/2019 05:56 am by zubenelgenubi »
Support your local planetarium! (COVID-panic and forward: Now more than ever.) My current avatar is saying "i wants to go uppies!" Yes, there are God-given rights. Do you wish to gainsay the Declaration of Independence?

Offline Star One

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #153 on: 02/18/2019 06:34 am »
Alien artifacts? That's not at all woo woo...  LOL

Is it better to get public support via woo woo stuff like this or not? I'm thinking not but I could be wrong

These days I am afraid you’d probably be wrong.

Offline turbopumpfeedback2

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #154 on: 10/28/2019 05:36 pm »
I looks like the Resource Prospector project has evolved into VIPER rover:

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/new-viper-lunar-rover-to-map-water-ice-on-the-moon

Precisely the same people who worked on RP now work on VIPER.

Very interesting that it will be battery powered and last 100 days.

Though, I am not sure if its chances are any better than RP. It is supposed to be 2022, but we will see.




Offline Rzeppa

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #155 on: 10/28/2019 06:07 pm »
I looks like the Resource Prospector project has evolved into VIPER rover:

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/new-viper-lunar-rover-to-map-water-ice-on-the-moon

Precisely the same people who worked on RP now work on VIPER.

Very interesting that it will be battery powered and last 100 days.

Though, I am not sure if its chances are any better than RP. It is supposed to be 2022, but we will see.

There's a good article in Space News https://spacenews.com/nasa-confirms-plans-to-send-prospecting-rover-to-the-moon/ today that gives a little different info in addition to the overlap info. Apparently Bridenstine announced it during a speech at the 70th IAC on the last day of the event.

For the 100 day extended mission, a quote from the Space News article says
Quote
VIPER will take advantage of locations near the south pole that are in sunlight for most of a lunar day to enable that extended mission.
Jeff Zepp

Offline DreamyPickle

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #156 on: 04/08/2020 02:58 pm »
NASA seems to be pushing this project forward under the new VIPER name, now scheduled for 2023. There are several updates which were not posted in this thread, including a new top-level page page on nasa.gov.

Apparently some CLPS companies objected that VIPER is too complex as a payload and asked for it to be postponed but NASA decided to push forward regardless.

There is still relatively little information about the availability of water on the moon and this rover can inform future ISRU projects so it would be great to see it land.

Tags: Audi rover 
 

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