How was the electricity produced? Conversion of energy produces heat.
Quote from: Robotbeat on 02/22/2016 03:04 pmJust because we COULD do AG doesn't mean we SHOULD. If your trip is short, you don't need it and probably shouldn't use it.Most people would not consider 3-4 months a short trip.However the practical work on AG is so limited it would absurd to bet your plans on it working. If space exploration were done logically it's a technique that would have been tried decades ago and its benefits and problems already found. Yet in 2016 it still has had no full scale test.
Just because we COULD do AG doesn't mean we SHOULD. If your trip is short, you don't need it and probably shouldn't use it.
The cold pack dumps its heat to the surrounding air. The heat is still present, it's just been moved, namely from the pack and to the surrounding air. It's why the backs of fridges are hot. Because the fridge is merely dumping the heat, not unmaking it."Endothermic" does not mean "laughs in the face of entropy", rather it states that a certain reaction requires heat to happen and it most certainly does not remove the heat, merely moves it around.
a bolo made of two [MCTs BFSs] connected by tether at the nose. Spinup and spindown by synchronized use of RCS thrusters.
Quote from: JamesH on 02/21/2016 06:50 pmForgive my naivety.In the novel Sundiver (David Brin), they dumped excess heat by converting to electricity, How was the electricity produced? Conversion of energy produces heat.
Forgive my naivety.In the novel Sundiver (David Brin), they dumped excess heat by converting to electricity,
the commode weighs 50Kg. A 110lb toilet. I get it, gas,water and solid separation is complex. But 50Kg. Really?
Quote from: Krevsin on 02/23/2016 04:47 pmThe cold pack dumps its heat to the surrounding air. The heat is still present, it's just been moved, namely from the pack and to the surrounding air. It's why the backs of fridges are hot. Because the fridge is merely dumping the heat, not unmaking it."Endothermic" does not mean "laughs in the face of entropy", rather it states that a certain reaction requires heat to happen and it most certainly does not remove the heat, merely moves it around.You are simply wrong. The heat pump on a refrigerator does move the heat, but that is not what happens in an endothermic reaction. I used to teach both chemistry and physics, as well as biology. When carbon oxidizes, potential energy is given off as heat. In an endothermic reaction, ambient heat is absorbed and changed into potential energy in the new chemical bonds that are created. The energy changes from thermal energy to potential energy. A cold pack does not dump heat; it soaks it up. You are absolutely and totally W...R...O...N...G ! ! ! Go look it up. Exo thermic means puts out heat. Endo thermic literally means that heat goes into the reaction. Quit arguing and go do the research.
I know what you're talking about WRT endothermic reactions. These do not violate the laws of thermodynamics because entropy still increases, and you soon run out of the little reservoir of low entropy.This other device you're talking about, a device that's able to generate useful energy by absorbing waste heat indefinitely would clearly NOT obey the laws of thermodynamics.Please realize that this device that you keep defending is not possible.
I agree that AG should not be in the critical path. With that said...Quote from: Lampyridae on 02/23/2016 11:13 amZero-g certainly allows a much more compact ship than would otherwise be the case.Please convince me of this.
Zero-g certainly allows a much more compact ship than would otherwise be the case.
ThermocoupleThermopileRadioisotope_thermoelectric_generatorStirling_engineMay not be mass and or volume efficient inside the MCT. Radiators might be better.
The electrical energy produced could then be used to help run the heat pump ( A/C ). I don't know if this could generate more or less power than what is needed to run the heat pump ( A/C ).
Quote from: Robotbeat on 02/24/2016 12:25 amPlease realize that this device that you keep defending is not possible.I have not defended any device. I stated above that I do not know the methodology by which it supposedly works, however, such a device is theoretically possible.
Please realize that this device that you keep defending is not possible.
This is dumb. Can we get back on topic instead of giving a platform to people (who ought to understand thermodynamics) to demonstrate that they don't understand thermodynamics?You can't make your radiator smaller by trying to get free energy. Argue about it in the New Physics section if you like.
Quote from: Burninate on 02/23/2016 02:59 pmI agree that AG should not be in the critical path. With that said...Quote from: Lampyridae on 02/23/2016 11:13 amZero-g certainly allows a much more compact ship than would otherwise be the case.Please convince me of this. Essentially, the difference between playing Tetris and playing Tetris without being able to rotate the bricks.
Here's another quick grab of improvements to my passenger model. The biggest change is the diameter which is now 10.1 meters, the same as the Saturn V first stage. With this diameter, each deck holds 24 sleep stations and 24 seats (fold-away). That means only 4 decks for 96 passengers. The deck features an airlock door. Being a work in progress, still got fill out the sleep stations and put in a fold-away ladder for up and down on surface access.Kaoru
I'd like to say a few words about laundry.Assuming people wear their clothes for a week each that's a minimum of 1500 sets of clothes you'll be taking to Mars unless something gets done about reusing them.Remember this is not the ISS, where stocks can be substantial and resupply is (relatively) easy. Before we get to all the tricky techno solutions (BTW still waiting for my waterless ultrasonic clothes cleaner) could I suggest a simple, clear heavish grade plastic bag you stick your stuff in with a waterproof closure, hook up to water & soap connectors then knead the water & soap in to hand wash.Personally I think it could be quite theraputic. Now the rinsing and drying stuff looks a bit harder. A waste connector to flush the water then transfer to a warm dry air cabinet to gradually suck the water off the fabric?Naturally this all has to be plumbed into the ECLSS to to work.
This other device you're talking about, a device that's able to generate useful energy by absorbing waste heat indefinitely would clearly NOT obey the laws of thermodynamics.Please realize that this device that you keep defending is not possible.
No, it's not dumb. Because most people don't understand the laws of thermodynamics. But should be elsewhere, certainly.
Quote from: Lampyridae on 02/24/2016 08:47 amQuote from: Burninate on 02/23/2016 02:59 pmQuote from: Lampyridae on 02/23/2016 11:13 amZero-g certainly allows a much more compact ship than would otherwise be the case.Please convince me of this.Essentially, the difference between playing Tetris and playing Tetris without being able to rotate the bricks.So you're talking about increased packing efficiencies from being able to store things in the ceiling/floor racks?
Quote from: Burninate on 02/23/2016 02:59 pmQuote from: Lampyridae on 02/23/2016 11:13 amZero-g certainly allows a much more compact ship than would otherwise be the case.Please convince me of this.Essentially, the difference between playing Tetris and playing Tetris without being able to rotate the bricks.
Quote from: Lampyridae on 02/23/2016 11:13 amZero-g certainly allows a much more compact ship than would otherwise be the case.Please convince me of this.
Before we get to all the tricky techno solutions (BTW still waiting for my waterless ultrasonic clothes cleaner) could I suggest a simple, clear heavish grade plastic bag you stick your stuff in with a waterproof closure, hook up to water & soap connectors then knead the water & soap in to hand wash.Now the rinsing and drying stuff looks a bit harder. A waste connector to flush the water then transfer to a warm dry air cabinet to gradually suck the water off the fabric?