Quote from: spacediver on 07/09/2013 02:13 pmQuote from: Oli on 07/09/2013 09:51 amNow that the design is final (see updates thread), discuss.It's a bad day for Europe!As an American, I'm admiring this Ariane 6 design. I see it as a bold engineering step toward simplicity and cost efficiency. It is a design that is already showing signs of becoming the "new normal" (see "Pegasus 2" for one example). I can imagine seeing Ariane 6 rockets stacked and flown in metronome fashion while Mr. Musk struggles to get his complex, leaky, many-engined liquid rockets off of their multiple, costly launch pads and while others battle to get access to the Russian rocket engine monopoly. - Ed Kyle
Quote from: Oli on 07/09/2013 09:51 amNow that the design is final (see updates thread), discuss.It's a bad day for Europe!
Now that the design is final (see updates thread), discuss.
Then again, you saw something in the stick
Solids are a branch of fireworks. Mass producing them for lower stages- interesting. But the project as a whole is a kludge. It is mass-limited and not very elegant.
Solids are a branch of fireworks. Mass producing them for lower stages- interesting. But the project as a whole is a kludge. It is mass-limited and not very elegant. Also, no human rating. Institutional launcher.I'm happy they'll have A5 till atleast 2018-2019. We'll see after that.
I can imagine seeing Ariane 6 rockets stacked and flown in metronome fashion while Mr. Musk struggles to get his complex, leaky, many-engined liquid rockets off of their multiple, costly launch pads and while others battle to get access to the Russian rocket engine monopoly. - Ed Kyle
Quote from: edkyle99 on 07/10/2013 11:16 pmI can imagine seeing Ariane 6 rockets stacked and flown in metronome fashion while Mr. Musk struggles to get his complex, leaky, many-engined liquid rockets off of their multiple, costly launch pads and while others battle to get access to the Russian rocket engine monopoly. - Ed KyleTime will tell, I suppose. But perhaps this will be yet another nail In the coffin for the "cheap solids" argument instead.And regarding your SpaceX comment - props to you for finally putting your real feelings on them out there for all to see. Leaky?
How many solids can you cluster?
Does ESA have no ambitions for manned spaceflight? Are they putting those eggs in the SLS basket now?
Quote from: spectre9 on 07/11/2013 06:43 am Does ESA have no ambitions for manned spaceflight? Are they putting those eggs in the SLS basket now?No ESA has no plans or any deep ambition for indigenous manned launches.
I wonder, why not use a solid A6 für manned launches? When it comes to safety, A5 has solids, Atlas V for crew will have solids, Ares-I had solids...So the problem must be vibrations, but I'm sure there are ways to dampen them for the capsule.
Any manned spacecraft for ESA purposes (and mind you, any of those are entirely theoretical) will likely exceed the 6.5 metric tons lift capacity of Ariane 6. So your question is moot.
Quote from: Oli on 07/11/2013 10:08 amI wonder, why not use a solid A6 für manned launches? When it comes to safety, A5 has solids, Atlas V for crew will have solids, Ares-I had solids...So the problem must be vibrations, but I'm sure there are ways to dampen them for the capsule. Any manned spacecraft for ESA purposes (and mind you, any of those are entirely theoretical) will likely exceed the 6.5 metric tons lift capacity of Ariane 6. So your question is moot.
Quote from: Alpha_Centauri on 07/11/2013 08:47 amQuote from: spectre9 on 07/11/2013 06:43 am Does ESA have no ambitions for manned spaceflight? Are they putting those eggs in the SLS basket now?No ESA has no plans or any deep ambition for indigenous manned launches.ATV has nothing to do with manned launches. It supports astronauts on orbit.Is disbanding the ESA astronaut corps really an option?I thought they would just be throwing them on SLS missions.In which case I assert building service modules isn't enough of a contribution.
ESA to my knowledge has never ever built a payload that required a full A5 launch.
Of course as Jim would say, "rockets are not legos"