Author Topic: Trump promises to 'plant the American flag on Mars' & build defense shield  (Read 15374 times)

Offline JulesVerneATV

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Trump promises to 'plant the American flag on MARS' if he is elected president again in 2024 and vows to build a 'defense shield'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11433423/Trump-promises-plant-American-flag-MARS.html

How much would it cost and 'Direct to Mars' could it be done?

From 1963 to 1969 NASA budget was often 2% and as high as 4% of the Federal Budget, it may never be as high again unless something else were to happening politically.  In year 2018, Donald Trump issued Space Policy Directive-2, "Streamlining Regulations on Commercial Use of Space. There is speculation Jeb Bush, Michelle Obama, DeSantis or others from minor parties like Constitution Party, Green or Libertarian might also run.

The 45th president of the United States had a talk or announcement last night, 2024 space politics and US election speculation has arrived early after Mid Terms, however Donald Trump also supported Gateway 2016, 2017 - 2020, 2021 and Artemis 1 is now in Orbit. 
« Last Edit: 11/17/2022 06:48 pm by zubenelgenubi »

Offline laszlo

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The American flag is all over Mars. It first got to the surface in 1976, so I'd say he's a little late on this one.

Offline yg1968

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The American flag is all over Mars. It first got to the surface in 1976, so I'd say he's a little late on this one.

The flag didn't get planted on Mars (the key word being planted).

Offline yg1968

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Incidentally, one of the things that Vice President Mike Pence mentions in his book released yesterday is that it was Trump's idea to revive the National Space Council. He asked Pence during the 2016 Campaign if Pence would like to lead it. Pence was thrilled at the opportunity of doing so since he was a big fan of Apollo when he was young. 
« Last Edit: 11/16/2022 07:31 pm by yg1968 »

Offline Proponent

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Incidentally, one of the things that Vice President Mike Pence mentions in his book released yesterday is that it was Trump's idea to revive the National Space Council. He asked Pence during the 2016 Campaign if Pence would like to lead it. Pence was thrilled at the opportunity of doing so since he was a big fan of Apollo when he was young. 

He does not seem to have been much of a fan of returning to the moon when he was a congressman, though.  He was co-chairman of the Republican Study Group in 2005 when that body proposed saving money by cancelling Constellation without replacing it with anything. Does that get a mention in the book?
« Last Edit: 11/16/2022 09:13 pm by Proponent »

Offline deadman1204

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[deleted]
Edit/Lar: Careful... this is starting to veer into general politics... please don't. Thanks

Edit/zubenelgenubi: Members couldn't resist quoting this post after Lar's warning, so I deleted it, and edited the replies.
« Last Edit: 11/19/2022 01:29 pm by zubenelgenubi »

Offline laszlo

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The American flag is all over Mars. It first got to the surface in 1976, so I'd say he's a little late on this one.

The flag didn't get planted on Mars (the key word being planted).

Mars Polar Lander  ;)

Offline yg1968

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Incidentally, one of the things that Vice President Mike Pence mentions in his book released yesterday is that it was Trump's idea to revive the National Space Council. He asked Pence during the 2016 Campaign if Pence would like to lead it. Pence was thrilled at the opportunity of doing so since he was a big fan of Apollo when he was young. 

He does not seem to have been much of a fan of returning to the moon when he was a congressman, though.  He was co-chairman of the Republican Study Group in 2005 when that body proposed saving money by cancelling Constellation without replacing it with anything. Does that get a mention in the book?

No but VP Pence talks about space and NASA on 8 pages of his memoirs. He mentions that he specifically requested to be on the House Committee on Science, Space Technology before he was Vice-President. Here are some of the more interesting quotes from his book:

Quote from: page 237 of VP Pence's book
"But [...] even as a budget hawk, I believe firmly in the US space program. It is an incredible source of pride and progress, a launching pad for industries that have powered America's economy and improved the life over. And it is a frontier that someday may be settled. If and when that happens, it should be settled by free men and women carrying the American flag.
   

Quote from: pages 344 and 345 of VP Pence's book
I wanted to encourage our astronauts and engineer to make their next giant leap and return Americans to the moon. I was in Huntsville to chair the fifth meeting of the [space] council in March 2019 not only to name the first commander of the Space Force, General Jay Raymond but also to make it official that we planned the "next man and first woman" to the Moon in five years in American rockets launched from American soil. Not just that, but the astronauts would be landing on the moon's south pole, where no American had ever gone.

The United States didn't have a rocket capable of sending astronauts to the moon, but instead of lamenting that and postponing the country's return there, the president and I were encouraging NASA to do what our administration had done elsewhere -with the economy, on foreign policy: shrug off compliancy, cut red tape and unnecessary regulations, and, as I said that day, think better bigger, fail smarter, and work harder. And do it with urgency. [...]

Trump liked to quip that "Rich guys love rockets," a reference to the generation of entrepreneurs investing in commercial space flight, including Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos. If their companies' technology could get Americans back to the moon, NASA shouldn't hesitate to work with them. [...] With entrepreneurs such as him [Bezos] and Musk, the US space revival was well under way. And the country had a president who was a builder, who always wanted to go further, faster, and higher in every endeavor.

Quote from: page 345 of VP Pence's book
History may well record Space Force as being one of the most consequential achievements of our administration: providing for the common defense in the boundless reaches of space.
« Last Edit: 11/16/2022 11:49 pm by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

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[deleted]

Your comments are overly political, even for the policy section. But the Artemis/Moon to Mars program was initiated under the Trump Administration. The Mars portion of the Moon to Mars program is essentially a rebrand of the Journey to Mars but it was there nevertheless under the Trump Administration.
« Last Edit: 11/19/2022 01:30 pm by zubenelgenubi »

Offline woods170

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[deleted]

Your comments are overly political, even for the policy section. But the Artemis/Moon to Mars program was initiated under the Trump Administration. The Mars portion of the Moon to Mars program is essentially a rebrand of the Journey to Mars but it was there nevertheless under the Trump Administration.

Now that we are talking politics: Artemis' Moon to Mars program is nothing but a rebranding of NASA's "Journey to Mars".  Which has existed since 2014. In other words: Trump in 2018/2019 merely rebranded a program started under his predecessor Obama. The only thing Trump did was add one element to the program: a crewed lunar landing.

That's it. All other aspects, including Lunar Gateway, already were part of "Journey to Mars". Trump claiming "I started it", is just another lie being piled on top of the many thousands of other lies he has made.
« Last Edit: 11/19/2022 01:31 pm by zubenelgenubi »

Offline yg1968

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[deleted]

Your comments are overly political, even for the policy section. But the Artemis/Moon to Mars program was initiated under the Trump Administration. The Mars portion of the Moon to Mars program is essentially a rebrand of the Journey to Mars but it was there nevertheless under the Trump Administration.

Now that we are talking politics: Artemis' Moon to Mars program is nothing but a rebranding of NASA's "Journey to Mars".  Which has existed since 2014. In other words: Trump in 2018/2019 merely rebranded a program started under his predecessor Obama. The only thing Trump did was add one element to the program: a crewed lunar landing.

That's it. All other aspects, including Lunar Gateway, already were part of "Journey to Mars". Trump claiming "I started it", is just another lie being piled on top of the many thousands of other lies he has made.

I am not sure that the Journey to Mars or Gateway are worth bragging about. The Journey to Mars was a Journey to no where. It didn't include the Moon which made it almost useless. In terms of taking credit for a program, any administration that participated in the program can claim credit for it. If anything it shows that a politician cares enough to even talk about it. In terms of lies or more accurately exaggerations, it's not like other politicians don't bend the truth or exaggerate either. Trump is just more obvious about it.
« Last Edit: 11/19/2022 01:31 pm by zubenelgenubi »

Offline spacenut

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(Removed the party political broadcast)

I think he could have gotten NASA moving faster, especially with Birkenstein in charge, who brought in Starship to help. 
« Last Edit: 11/17/2022 04:20 pm by Chris Bergin »

Offline yg1968

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(Removed the party political broadcast)

I think he could have gotten NASA moving faster, especially with [Bridenstine] in charge, who brought in Starship to help.

Although I agree with your comments, we are clearly going outside of space policy now. Every thread about Trump gets locked for this reason.
« Last Edit: 11/17/2022 04:27 pm by yg1968 »

Offline woods170

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I think he could have gotten NASA moving faster, especially with Birkenstein in charge, who brought in Starship to help. 

Emphasis mine.

This is false. The HLS lander (Lunar Starship) was selected AFTER Bridenstine left NASA. The only thing you can credit Bridenstine for is understanding the fact that without a lander there won't be much of a crewed landing on the Moon. Bridenstine started HLS. But Starship was selected by Kathy Lueders, several months AFTER Bridenstine was gone and (fortunately) a few weeks BEFORE Bill Nelson got into office. NASA management was very clever to select the HLS winner exactly in the period that NASA leadership was in limbo in between two administrators.
« Last Edit: 11/17/2022 07:06 pm by zubenelgenubi »

Offline yg1968

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I think he could have gotten NASA moving faster, especially with Birkenstein in charge, who brought in Starship to help. 

Emphasis mine.

This is false. The HLS lander (Lunar Starship) was selected AFTER Bridenstine left NASA. The only thing you can credit Bridenstine for is understanding the fact that without a lander there won't be much of a crewed landing on the Moon. Bridenstine started HLS. But Starship was selected by Kathy Lueders, several months AFTER Bridenstine was gone and (fortunately) a few weeks BEFORE Bill Nelson got into office. NASA management was very clever to select the HLS winner exactly in the period that NASA leadership was in limbo in between two administrators.

HLS-Starship was selected under the base period in April 2020. Option A was selected in April 2021. But Starship couldn't have been selected for Option A if it hadn't been selected under the base period.
« Last Edit: 11/17/2022 04:20 pm by Chris Bergin »

Offline woods170

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[deleted]

Your comments are overly political, even for the policy section. But the Artemis/Moon to Mars program was initiated under the Trump Administration. The Mars portion of the Moon to Mars program is essentially a rebrand of the Journey to Mars but it was there nevertheless under the Trump Administration.

Now that we are talking politics: Artemis' Moon to Mars program is nothing but a rebranding of NASA's "Journey to Mars".  Which has existed since 2014. In other words: Trump in 2018/2019 merely rebranded a program started under his predecessor Obama. The only thing Trump did was add one element to the program: a crewed lunar landing.

That's it. All other aspects, including Lunar Gateway, already were part of "Journey to Mars". Trump claiming "I started it", is just another lie being piled on top of the many thousands of other lies he has made.

I am not sure that the Journey to Mars or Gateway are worth bragging about. The Journey to Mars was a Journey to no where. It didn't include the Moon which made it almost useless. In terms of taking credit for a program, any administration that participated in the program can claim credit for it. If anything it shows that a politician cares enough to even talk about it. In terms of lies or more accurately exaggerations, it's not like other politicians don't bend the truth or exaggerate either. Trump is just more obvious about it.

Emphasis mine.

Wrong. The Journey to Mars very much included the Moon, just not the lunar surface. But the prototype for the Mars Transfer Vehicle was the Deep Space Habitat (NextSTEP, which later was rebranded Lunar Gateway), which was planned from Day 1 to be tested near the Moon. Just look at NASA's description of the Journey To Mars:

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/journey-to-mars-next-steps-20151008_508.pdf
« Last Edit: 11/19/2022 01:32 pm by zubenelgenubi »

Offline Lar

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Mod warning:

"Trump says whatever comes to mind", "Trump lies", "Trump left the economy in great shape..."

Those are all general political comments. Don't do it.  Not here.

Take it to Twitter or FB or Mastodon  (this is me there for those who care  https://mstdn.social/@Lar_p and yeah, it's political)

Thanks.
« Last Edit: 11/17/2022 04:20 pm by Chris Bergin »
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline yg1968

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[deleted]
Your comments are overly political, even for the policy section. But the Artemis/Moon to Mars program was initiated under the Trump Administration. The Mars portion of the Moon to Mars program is essentially a rebrand of the Journey to Mars but it was there nevertheless under the Trump Administration.

Now that we are talking politics: Artemis' Moon to Mars program is nothing but a rebranding of NASA's "Journey to Mars".  Which has existed since 2014. In other words: Trump in 2018/2019 merely rebranded a program started under his predecessor Obama. The only thing Trump did was add one element to the program: a crewed lunar landing.

That's it. All other aspects, including Lunar Gateway, already were part of "Journey to Mars". Trump claiming "I started it", is just another lie being piled on top of the many thousands of other lies he has made.

I am not sure that the Journey to Mars or Gateway are worth bragging about. The Journey to Mars was a Journey to no where. It didn't include the Moon which made it almost useless. In terms of taking credit for a program, any administration that participated in the program can claim credit for it. If anything it shows that a politician cares enough to even talk about it. In terms of lies or more accurately exaggerations, it's not like other politicians don't bend the truth or exaggerate either. Trump is just more obvious about it.

Emphasis mine.

Wrong. The Journey to Mars very much included the Moon, just not the lunar surface. But the prototype for the Mars Transfer Vehicle was the Deep Space Habitat (NextSTEP, which later was rebranded Lunar Gateway), which was planned from Day 1 to be tested near the Moon. Just look at NASA's description of the Journey To Mars:

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/journey-to-mars-next-steps-20151008_508.pdf

Around the Moon isn't the same as on the surface of the Moon. The document that you linked only says that the deep space habitat would be in cislunar space. In any event, I am not sure that I would brag about Gateway. I am somewhat supportive of Gateway because of the international collaboration that it brings but I am glad that Bridenstine decided to minimize it by reducing its scope (e.g., HALO is smaller than what was originally planned).
« Last Edit: 11/19/2022 01:33 pm by zubenelgenubi »

Offline woods170

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HLS-Starship was selected under the base period in April 2020. Option A was selected in April 2021. But Starship couldn't have been selected for Option A if it hadn't been selected under the base period.
[/quote]

Again: Spacenut stated that Bridenstine brought in Starship. That is categorically false. The selecting officer for the base period was Stephen Jurczyk. Bridenstine had no role in the selections made for both the Base Period and Option A. The fact that SpaceX opted to offer Starship for the NextSTEP H BAA, is not Bridenstine's accomplishment.  The only thing Bridenstine accomplished was getting a competition started to select a lunar lander. So, you can only credit him with getting started on getting a lander ready.

But getting certain companies to respond to the HLS competition, let alone getting them to offer specific solutions, is not Bridenstine's accomplishment. In fact, Bridenstine was not even allowed to do so. Because doing so would be a violation of the same stringent set of federal acquisition rules that eventually toppled Loverro.
« Last Edit: 11/17/2022 04:21 pm by Chris Bergin »

Offline woods170

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I am not sure that the Journey to Mars or Gateway are worth bragging about. The Journey to Mars was a Journey to no where. It didn't include the Moon which made it almost useless. In terms of taking credit for a program, any administration that participated in the program can claim credit for it. If anything it shows that a politician cares enough to even talk about it. In terms of lies or more accurately exaggerations, it's not like other politicians don't bend the truth or exaggerate either. Trump is just more obvious about it.

Emphasis mine.

Wrong. The Journey to Mars very much included the Moon, just not the lunar surface. But the prototype for the Mars Transfer Vehicle was the Deep Space Habitat (NextSTEP, which later was rebranded Lunar Gateway), which was planned from Day 1 to be tested near the Moon. Just look at NASA's description of the Journey To Mars:

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/journey-to-mars-next-steps-20151008_508.pdf

Around the Moon isn't the same as on the surface of the Moon. In any event, I am not sure that I would brag about Gateway. I am somewhat supportive of Gateway because of the international collaboration that it brings but I am glad that Bridenstine decided to minimize it by reducing its scope (e.g., HALO is smaller than what was originally planned).

Emphasis mine.

This is again a misconception on your part. More than a year before Bridenstine got into office, NASA has already partnered with Orbital Sciences/Orbital ATK to use a Cygnus-based module as the initial habitat module (what we now know as HALO) for Deep Space Habitat, instead of the bigger ISS based modules offered by Boeing and LockMart.

I strongly suggest you start reading up on the history of NextSTEP because your knowledge base is lacking.
« Last Edit: 11/17/2022 02:07 pm by woods170 »

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