Author Topic: Trump promises to 'plant the American flag on Mars' & build defense shield  (Read 27773 times)

Offline yg1968

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Trump (like many other Presidents) is a big picture guy, he doesn't want to know the details as long as it gets done. In that exchange, I disagree with what Whitson is saying, the United States doesn't need international cooperation to get humans to Mars.
You're entitled to  your opinion.

Except the only way the Orion SM got done was because ESA supplied as it's contribution to ISS support.

Mercury didn't need that.

Gemini didn't need that.

Apollo didn't need that.

The contractor swallowed the whole budget on the capsule. Not a cent on the SM left.

But perhaps you feel Sen. Shellby and the other Senators of the "Space states" failed to secure adequate funding for Orion during its long construction period and with just a little bit more of a push it could have stayed a 100% US effort?

That's possible. If Trump is elected again maybe we'll find out.

Or not.

You make a good point about the service module, ideally that bargain shouldn't have been made. But I remember that part of the reason that the SM was given to ESA was to make Orion harder to cancel.

Offline john smith 19

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You make a good point about the service module, ideally that bargain shouldn't have been made. But I remember that part of the reason that the SM was given to ESA was to make Orion harder to cancel.
IIRC the actual wording was that NASA had several options for how ESA could make that years contribution to the ISS system.

NASA chose to take it as the Orion SM.

What you're not seeing is that situation existed because the contractor left no budget for the SM

Which looks like a quite stunning failure in management to me.

But that's just my opinion.

The US is 2 years away from the next round of elections. A study of mid term results was done which said the average hit to the incumbent party (whoever they are) is as follows
Senate  Congress
-3           -28
What actually happened this year?
+1         -7

so the Republican party did about 1/4 as well as it would expect to do at this time. The Democrats increased their margin in the Senate, which means they can no longer be held hostage by one particular right-wing Senators vote. Likewise of the slate of candidates personally endorsed by Trump at state level  roughly 75-80% were elected, but most of the high profile ones (like Kari Lake) failed. Those states will have 2 years to decide if they like things run by such people or not.

2 years is a long time in politics.

So to have your wish come true (in big picture terms) you need.

The Republican party needs to choose Trump as their candidate
They have to win the election with Trump, with an electorate who now know what they can expect from him as a President.
He has to remember his promise and honour it.

If you believe that Donald Trump is a man who always remembers his promises and honours them then you have nothing to worry about.

As someone who believes in the process of selecting a leader through elections open to all voters and implemented through a system that allows all voters to place their vote easily I would encourage everyone (whatever their PoV) to vote.

If you don't participate what you're actually saying is "I can, and will cope with any outcome of the election. I have no preference as to who is elected"

If that is literally true then stay at home and sit it out. It'll all be over in a bit.

2024 could be the highest turnout election ever if everyone who can vote does vote.
« Last Edit: 12/10/2022 04:58 pm by john smith 19 »
MCT ITS BFR SS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFSC engined CFRP SS structure A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of Earth & Mars atmospheric flight.First flight to Mars by end of 2022 TBC. T&C apply. Trust nothing. Run your own #s "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" R. Simberg."Competitve" means cheaper ¬cheap SCramjet proposed 1956. First +ve thrust 2004. US R&D spend to date > $10Bn. #deployed designs. Zero.

Offline yg1968

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You make a good point about the service module, ideally that bargain shouldn't have been made. But I remember that part of the reason that the SM was given to ESA was to make Orion harder to cancel.
IIRC the actual wording was that NASA had several options for how ESA could make that years contribution to the ISS system.

NASA chose to take it as the Orion SM.

What you're not seeing is that situation existed because the contractor left no budget for the SM

Which looks like a quite stunning failure in management to me.

But that's just my opinion.

I get the impression that management issues are inevitable for government programs.

Incidentally, I don't know why you think that I wish for Trump to win. It's not clear at this time that he will be the Republican candidate in 2024. I am just commenting on his Mars plans, that is all. This thread is a discussion of Trump's Mars plans, not his chances of being the Republican candidate or of him winning the Presidency in 2024 (both of these subjects are off topic).
« Last Edit: 12/10/2022 06:41 pm by yg1968 »

Offline Coastal Ron

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Incidentally, I don't know why you think that I wish for Trump to win. It's not clear at this time that he will be the Republican candidate in 2024. I am just commenting on his Mars plans, that is all. This thread is a discussion of Trump's Mars plans, not his chances of being the Republican candidate or of him winning the Presidency in 2024 (both of these subjects are off topic).

Correction, Trump doesn't have a "plan", he has only stated a goal:
Quote
And we will plant our beautiful American flag very soon on the surface of Mars...

This is the totality of what he said:
Who - America
What - "plant our beautiful American flag"
Where - Mars
When - "very soon"
Why - n/a
How - n/a

That is NOT a "plan", in particular because it lacks a "Why" and a "How". What he stated is more like a campaign promise with no context. Who is the constituency? What current problem is he solving? How is America better because of this promise, instead of despite the promise?

I don't know why anyone would get excited about statements Trump makes that are obviously not backed up by abilities or interest.  :o
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline yg1968

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Correction, Trump doesn't have a "plan", he has only stated a goal:

The dictionary is your friend.

Quote from: Oxford Languages Definitions (Google)
plan

1. a detailed proposal for doing or achieving something.
"the UN peace plan"

2. an intention or decision about what one is going to do.
"I have no plans to retire"

In the context of how I was using the word "plan", the second definition is the one that was relevant to my post (not the first one).
« Last Edit: 12/10/2022 10:55 pm by yg1968 »

Offline Coastal Ron

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Correction, Trump doesn't have a "plan", he has only stated a goal:

The dictionary is your friend.

So is context. The English language is well known for having different meanings for the same word, depending on context. In this case Trump is not announcing his retirement, he is announcing a national goal.

Quote from: Oxford Languages Definitions (Google)
plan

1. a detailed proposal for doing or achieving something.
"the UN peace plan"

Ask anyone at NASA - the people that would likely be tasked with this - if Trump announced a plan or a goal, and they would say "Goal". And that is because of the context of how NASA operates, they know the difference.

And as I pointed out above, Trump has not identified a "Why" or a "How", which are fundamental to creating any valid plan.

There is no plan, just a goal. And it is fine to have goals, but important to understand that they are not plans.
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline yg1968

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Correction, Trump doesn't have a "plan", he has only stated a goal:

The dictionary is your friend.

So is context. The English language is well known for having different meanings for the same word, depending on context. In this case Trump is not announcing his retirement, he is announcing a national goal.

Retirement is just one example. Yes, context matters and in this case, the context should have told you that I meant "plan" as it is understood in the second meaning. In this case Trump intends for the United States to go to Mars.

Quote from: Oxford Languages Definitions (Google)
plan 2. an intention or decision about what one is going to do.
"I have no plans to retire"

Similar: intention, aim, idea, intent, objective, object, goal, target

In any event, the details of the Mars plan would be left to the NASA Administrator and other people in the executive branch of government. Campaigns rarely give details for anything space related. It's surprising that anything space related was even mentioned during his speech.
« Last Edit: 12/11/2022 12:55 am by yg1968 »

Offline D_Dom

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You were warned repeatedly. Out of respect for the norms of this thread I have not deleted  anything but the latest nonsense.
Space is not merely a matter of life or death, it is considerably more important than that!

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