Gateway Minimal Habitation Module

[Lar]

Does the Canada Arm-2 need to be ready for 2023-4 on the Gateway? Or will Orion and Lander be capable of autonomous Docking to the Hab module? I'm assuming they'll be using the IDA?

I am not sure if Canadarm 3 would be required for grabbing the lander, but at the very least it would probably be a nice-to-have on station to allow for Gateway resupply. The Canadian space agency did say a couple of months ago that they were looking into accelerating the schedule for the built for Canadarm 3 so it would be ready by 2024.

For those that know, how does this get sent to the gateway?
Is it "flatpacked" with some onsite assembly required, or is it mounted on something already assembled and set in a way that it fits inside a fairing?
Once in place, is it thought that it can walk to different locations as on ISS?

[jarmumd]

Does NASA intend to use the optional enhancement to the International Docking Standard System (IDSS) allowing transfer of water, fuel and lox?

In one appendix, I think for commercial gateway resupply, it says there will be a new Gateway Docking System Standard.  I imagine the benefit of the new standard is to have new connectors for liquid/gas transfers.

[brickmack]

For those that know, how does this get sent to the gateway?
Is it "flatpacked" with some onsite assembly required, or is it mounted on something already assembled and set in a way that it fits inside a fairing?
Once in place, is it thought that it can walk to different locations as on ISS?

It'll be mounted to the exterior of a cargo vehicle and then walk off from a grapple fixture on that vehicle to the Gateway. Totally unmanned. This would be under CLN-2 of Gateway Logistics Services. Each Gateway module will have grapple fixtures (not the same design as ISS, but the interface is still in work I think) so it can walk around and potentially relocate modules

[DistantTemple]

For those that know, how does this get sent to the gateway?
Is it "flatpacked" with some onsite assembly required, or is it mounted on something already assembled and set in a way that it fits inside a fairing?
Once in place, is it thought that it can walk to different locations as on ISS?

It'll be mounted to the exterior of a cargo vehicle and then walk off from a grapple fixture on that vehicle to the Gateway. Totally unmanned. This would be under CLN-2 of Gateway Logistics Services. Each Gateway module will have grapple fixtures (not the same design as ISS, but the interface is still in work I think) so it can walk around and potentially relocate modules

AIUI its based on the current Cygnus resupply vehicle that currently flies to the ISS. A big part of NASA's choice of this bid was its readiness in the time frame due to the commonalities with its current ISS use. Its recent launches have been on Antares 230 rockets, but it previously launched on Atlas 5.
It would launch complete. It includes a propulsion module - the service module with hypogolic propellants for manouvering to the ISS. I cant remember if this service module will need to get it into the NRHOrbit for the Gateway.
So no, flat-packing is waaay off!
So a standard enhanced Cygnus module with extra shielding, life support, and habitation stuff etc and docking ports...

[brickmack]

No, he was asking about Canadarm3

[DistantTemple]

No, he was asking about Canadarm3

duhhh Yes i have found his post now! I need to check the provenance of "this" more carefully... but "walk" should have sparked my single neuron int life!

[yg1968]

Really happy about the quick movement on this. So are the PPE and the Mini-Hab on contract at this point?

One of the recent articles clarified this. Apparently, they are not officially on-contract yet, but unless they seriously screw-up negotiations, they will be very soon.

Also, congrats OP! As far as I can tell, you publicized this before anyone else on the internet did.

There is also the logistics/cargo services module that hasn't yet been awarded.

The last piece of the puzzle is the Moon lander but that's a big one. It requires additional funding and cannot be initiated under a clean CR according to Bridenstine.

[Blackout]

It is really encouraging to see how fast the Gateway is progressing.  PPE and now habitat have been awarded/funded not to mention launching on commercial providers.  I know that Gateway isn't everyone's (anyones?) ideal architecture, but at least it seems to actually be happening after all these post-constellation years of course changes.

[Proponent]

A gateway certainly seems more likely to materialize than a moon landing.

[freddo411]

A gateway certainly seems more likely to materialize than a moon landing.

The money is being contracted right now.   I think the vendors are capable of delivering quickly.

Will we be arguing about Gateway orbiting the moon while SLS is delayed to 2020-whatever?

[A_M_Swallow]

A gateway certainly seems more likely to materialize than a moon landing.

The money is being contracted right now.   I think the vendors are capable of delivering quickly.

Will we be arguing about Gateway orbiting the moon while SLS is delayed to 2020-whatever?

I suspect we will be arguing about ways to get astronauts to the Gateway and back again.

[bad_astra]

Who would have thought that COTS in 2006 would lead to a lunar space station component contracted in 2019.

[TheRadicalModerate]

Does the Canada Arm-2 need to be ready for 2023-4 on the Gateway? Or will Orion and Lander be capable of autonomous Docking to the Hab module? I'm assuming they'll be using the IDA?

Seems to me that the one no-brainer use for the Gateway is to assemble the 3-stage lander.  Building autonomous docking into all 3 modules sounds kinda hard, especially if they're docking nose-to-tail.  It's hard to imagine doing that assembly without some kind of an arm.

[Joseph Peterson]

Does the Canada Arm-2 need to be ready for 2023-4 on the Gateway? Or will Orion and Lander be capable of autonomous Docking to the Hab module? I'm assuming they'll be using the IDA?

Seems to me that the one no-brainer use for the Gateway is to assemble the 3-stage lander.  Building autonomous docking into all 3 modules sounds kinda hard, especially if they're docking nose-to-tail.  It's hard to imagine doing that assembly without some kind of an arm.

I could use an explanation of why the expendable descent stage needs autonomous docking capability.  The descent stage will need a passive docking port and station keeping ability, but this is needed whether it is docked or berthed to the ascent stage.  What extra bits are needed so the ascent stage can dock?

[DistantTemple]

Is this a valid or likely scenario?
1) Gateway is made of a habitat(cyrus) and PPI(power and propulsion) Hab has at least 2 radial IDA's.
2) Descent and ascent stages are delivered either together or separate. If separate they are put together at the hab. Their final config will be: hanging off the HAB on an IDA in order - the ascent stage docked, then the descent stage attached (it is not a habitable space just a rocket "stage")
3) Orion arrives with crew, and docks at (the) other IDA and crew have use of the hab as well as Orion.
4) Any transfers of supplies and propellant etc are completed, and if not done in 2) above the descent and ascent stages are joined, possibly with EVA or Canada arm etc to solve problems.
5) Crew transfer to ascent stage with descent stage attached and descend to lunar surface.
6) later they ascend in the ascent stage abandoning the descent stage on the lunar surface. The ascent stage docks back at (the same) IDA.
7) Crew transfers to the hab.
8 ) Crew transfers to Orion nd heads back to Earth. - (I don't know the fuel situation.... for the return)
(maybe Dragon2 plus a PPE or F9S2 could take the place of Orion.
 

[su27k]

Does the Canada Arm-2 need to be ready for 2023-4 on the Gateway? Or will Orion and Lander be capable of autonomous Docking to the Hab module? I'm assuming they'll be using the IDA?

Seems to me that the one no-brainer use for the Gateway is to assemble the 3-stage lander.  Building autonomous docking into all 3 modules sounds kinda hard, especially if they're docking nose-to-tail.  It's hard to imagine doing that assembly without some kind of an arm.

From HLS Draft BAA, Attachment_A1_HLS_Con_Ops_v.9.pdf, page 7:

For un-crewed Gateway operations, docking or berthing is an option. The Gateway is not planned to have a robotic arm during the initial capability phase. An arm may be available for the sustainable operations phase.

[A_M_Swallow]

Does NASA intend to use the optional enhancement to the International Docking Standard System (IDSS) allowing transfer of water, fuel and lox?

The importance of the question is that the mini-hab will need to have the connecting pipes installed before launch. This high level decision on in-flight refuelling needs taking within weeks before say the end of August 2019.

This is a high level architecture decision because it effects the design of the landers, PPE, MHM, other Gateway modules and resupply vehicles.

The pipes will also need to be temperature controlled. Pipes carrying cryogenic propellants need to be kept cold in the sun light. Space storable propellants (and water) need to be kept warm when in the shadows or they may freeze.

[TheRadicalModerate]

From HLS Draft BAA, Attachment_A1_HLS_Con_Ops_v.9.pdf, page 7:

For un-crewed Gateway operations, docking or berthing is an option. The Gateway is not planned to have a robotic arm during the initial capability phase. An arm may be available for the sustainable operations phase.

Hmm.

I moved the body of this answer over on to the "NASA Gateway Lunar Lander" thread, here.  TL;DR version:  this imposes some interesting stacking problems.

[TheRadicalModerate]

The pipes will also need to be temperature controlled. Pipes carrying cryogenic propellants need to be kept cold in the sun light. Space storable propellants (and water) need to be kept warm when in the shadows or they may freeze.

Seems like the piping only gets used at transfer.  You should be able to manage the environment well enough during transfer that the piping itself doesn't have to be too fancy.

[TheRadicalModerate]

Is this a valid or likely scenario?
1) Gateway is made of a habitat(cyrus) and PPI(power and propulsion) Hab has at least 2 radial IDA's.
2) Descent and ascent stages are delivered either together or separate. If separate they are put together at the hab. Their final config will be: hanging off the HAB on an IDA in order - the ascent stage docked, then the descent stage attached (it is not a habitable space just a rocket "stage")
3) Orion arrives with crew, and docks at (the) other IDA and crew have use of the hab as well as Orion.
4) Any transfers of supplies and propellant etc are completed, and if not done in 2) above the descent and ascent stages are joined, possibly with EVA or Canada arm etc to solve problems.
5) Crew transfer to ascent stage with descent stage attached and descend to lunar surface.
6) later they ascend in the ascent stage abandoning the descent stage on the lunar surface. The ascent stage docks back at (the same) IDA.
7) Crew transfers to the hab.
8 ) Crew transfers to Orion nd heads back to Earth. - (I don't know the fuel situation.... for the return)
(maybe Dragon2 plus a PPE or F9S2 could take the place of Orion.

You've left out the tug.