Author Topic: Chang'e-4 lunar operations  (Read 277912 times)

Offline wahaha

  • Member
  • Posts: 54
  • Liked: 34
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: Chang'e-4 lunar operations
« Reply #280 on: 01/15/2019 03:44 am »
China's Chang'e-4 probe conducts first bio test on moon as first plant grows
https://news.cgtn.com/news/3d3d414f7949444d32457a6333566d54/share_p.html

Offline SciNews

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 819
  • Romania
  • Liked: 748
  • Likes Given: 7
Re: Chang'e-4 lunar operations
« Reply #281 on: 01/15/2019 09:48 am »
Interview with Xie Gengxin, chief designer, biological experiment payload

Chongqing University press release (Chinese) https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/hS3SI8x3J0NFD9ZuZ5AArw

Offline mcgyver

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 633
  • milan, rome
  • Liked: 182
  • Likes Given: 142
Re: Chang'e-4 lunar operations
« Reply #282 on: 01/15/2019 10:01 am »

this looks like an "anomalous" Moon landing to me, being the engine kept on down to the ground: it is instead supposed to be turned off 1-2 meters above ground, to allow a free-fall landing, which prevents high-speed regolite paticles from damaging the lander. This is why '60s landing modules had 1.5 meters pole hanging from the legs: as soon as they touched ground, the blue contact light on dashboard was turned on an the pilot turned off the engine.


Here  instead I see engine on even after touchown.


Freefall landing from 2 meters above ground is possible on the Moon thanks to low gravity; on Mars it is possible only a few CENTImeters above ground.

Online eeergo

Re: Chang'e-4 lunar operations
« Reply #283 on: 01/15/2019 02:38 pm »
I can't figure out here  the exact point of the landing site, are precise coordinates known? 177.6E,45.5S is not precise enough.

I followed the video in the response you quoted (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47004.msg1900384#msg1900384) and I arrived at approximately 177.58859 E, 45.45647 S, closest to the top (in North-up view) crater in the triangle found at around 177.588, -45.457.
-DaviD-

Offline Olaf

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3124
  • Germany
  • Liked: 1481
  • Likes Given: 455
Re: Chang'e-4 lunar operations
« Reply #284 on: 01/15/2019 05:56 pm »
https://spacenews.com/change-4-spacecraft-enter-lunar-nighttime-china-planning-future-missions-cooperation/
Chang’e-4 spacecraft enter lunar nighttime, China planning future missions, cooperation

Offline Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17783
  • Liked: 10606
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: Chang'e-4 lunar operations
« Reply #285 on: 01/15/2019 10:06 pm »
Chang'e 5 will do sample return. The Chinese have indicated that CE6 will do polar sample return, but they will not decide if it will be near side or far side sample return (meaning South Pole-Aitken Basin) until seeing the results of CE5. This is a very careful and methodical program. For both CE3 and CE5 they had/have backup spacecraft, and if the first mission is successful, the try something more ambitious with the backup. That's a very conservative but clever approach. NASA has done that, but I don't think it has been as carefully planned as this.

CE6 info is here:

www.leonarddavid.com/china-details-future-moon-exploration-plans/?fbclid=IwAR2ikL8xeh7ggUwwGK4wqT9FhV-1SF30e7V3yuLYUUbxlWMfRr7FRG3fkj4

This article covers most of the same material but misses the CE6 angle:

https://spacenews.com/change-4-spacecraft-enter-lunar-nighttime-china-planning-future-missions-cooperation/?fbclid=IwAR2JBGxQyEj-4Tq7ujo6g7mTlpQo-sn66hlKqk_P6WYS6RnKHNiEi3g3sF0

« Last Edit: 01/15/2019 10:07 pm by Blackstar »

Offline SciNews

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 819
  • Romania
  • Liked: 748
  • Likes Given: 7
Re: Chang'e-4 lunar operations
« Reply #286 on: 01/16/2019 07:09 am »
Quote
The Chang'e-4 probe entered a "sleep mode" on Sunday as the first lunar night after the probe's landing fell. The temperature could drop as low as about minus 170 degrees centigrade.
"Life in the canister would not survive the lunar night," Xie said.
The experiment has ended. The organisms will gradually decompose in the totally enclosed canister, and will not affect the lunar environment, said the China National Space Administration (CNSA).
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-01/15/c_137745505.htm

Offline mcgyver

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 633
  • milan, rome
  • Liked: 182
  • Likes Given: 142
Re: Chang'e-4 lunar operations
« Reply #287 on: 01/16/2019 08:26 am »
I can't figure out here  the exact point of the landing site, are precise coordinates known? 177.6E,45.5S is not precise enough.

I followed the video in the response you quoted (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47004.msg1900384#msg1900384) and I arrived at approximately 177.58859 E, 45.45647 S, closest to the top (in North-up view) crater in the triangle found at around 177.588, -45.457.


Thanks, I eventually got it; images are upside-down, that's why I got lost!
I attach my study to locate the exact point on maps.
These are the interactive maps:
Map 1
Map 2
Map 3


« Last Edit: 01/16/2019 09:03 am by mcgyver »

Offline mcgyver

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 633
  • milan, rome
  • Liked: 182
  • Likes Given: 142
Re: Chang'e-4 lunar operations
« Reply #288 on: 01/16/2019 08:29 am »
Same image, but oriented like the videos (north is down).


And the video:



First frame of the descent phase annotated in attachment too.

« Last Edit: 01/16/2019 08:54 am by mcgyver »

Offline luhai167

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 168
  • Liked: 101
  • Likes Given: 7
Chang'e-4 lunar operations
« Reply #289 on: 01/16/2019 08:45 am »
Quote
The Chang'e-4 probe entered a "sleep mode" on Sunday as the first lunar night after the probe's landing fell. The temperature could drop as low as about minus 170 degrees centigrade.
"Life in the canister would not survive the lunar night," Xie said.
The experiment has ended. The organisms will gradually decompose in the totally enclosed canister, and will not affect the lunar environment, said the China National Space Administration (CNSA).
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-01/15/c_137745505.htm
I wonder if this means the experiment’s environmental controls can’t stay in the power budget for the RTG so they give up on heating through the lunar night all together. That would explain the change from silkworm to fruit flies and give up on potato.

The article from april seems indicate the temperature will be controlled to ranged from 1C to 30C. This is a publicly submitted done by universities as well, so it probably does not have the same priority as experiments from CAS and CNSA itself.

 http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-04/12/c_137106225.htm

Quote
BEIJING, April 12 (Xinhua) -- China's Chang'e-4 lunar probe is expected to do many things unprecedented in space history after it launches later this year, such as touching down softly on the far side of the Moon and taking the first flowers to blossom on the lifeless lunar surface.
The probe will carry a tin containing seeds of potato and arabidopsis, a small flowering plant related to cabbage and mustard, and probably some silkworm eggs to conduct the first biological experiment on the Moon.
The "lunar mini biosphere" experiment was designed by 28 Chinese universities, led by southwest China's Chongqing University, a conference on scientific and technological innovation of Chongqing Municipality has heard.
The cylindrical tin, made from special aluminum alloy materials, is 18 cm tall, with a diameter of 16 cm, a net volume of 0.8 liters and a weight of 3 kilograms. The tin will also contain water, a nutrient solution, air and equipment such as a small camera and data transmission system.
Researchers hope the seeds will grow to blossom on the Moon, with the process captured on camera and transmitted to Earth.
Although astronauts have cultivated plants on the International Space Station, and rice and arabidopsis were grown on China's Tiangong-2 space lab, those experiments were conducted in low-Earth orbit, at an altitude of about 400 kilometers. The environment on the Moon, 380,000 kilometers from the Earth, is more complicated.
Liu Hanlong, chief director of the experiment and vice president of Chongqing University, said since the Moon has no atmosphere, its temperature ranges from lower than minus 100 degrees centigrade to higher than 100 degrees centigrade.
"We have to keep the temperature in the 'mini biosphere' within a range from 1 degree to 30 degrees, and properly control the humidity and nutrition. We will use a tube to direct the natural light on the surface of Moon into the tin to make the plants grow," said Xie Gengxin, chief designer of the experiment.
"We want to study the respiration of the seeds and the photosynthesis on the Moon," said Liu.
"Why potato and arabidopsis? Because the growth period of arabidopsis is short and convenient to observe. And potato could become a major source of food for future space travelers," said Liu. "Our experiment might help accumulate knowledge for building a lunar base and long-term residence on the Moon."
The public, especially young people, are being encouraged to participate in the Chang'e-4 mission. The China National Space Administration (CNSA) launched a contest among students across China in 2016, collecting ideas on the design of the payloads.
The "lunar mini biosphere" experiment was selected from more than 200 submissions, according to the CNSA.


edit: confirmed

https://gbtimes.com/lunar-nighttime-brings-end-to-change-4-biosphere-experiment-and-cotton-sprouts

Quote
Liu Hanlong, head of the experiment at Chongqing University, said at a Chongqing government press conference on Tuesday that the temperature inside the 1-litre-capacity canister had reached -52 degrees Celsius and the experiment had ended.

According to Liu, the experiment did not carry a battery and could not continue environmental control during the lunar nighttime. The lack of battery was possibly due to mass constraints for the mission and the lander's own power demands.

....

The canister was a popular science experiment, selected from proposals submitted to a contest that invited students to design a small payload for the lander, and thus of less importance than the main science goals of the mission.

It was one of a number of outreach initiatives related to the Chang'e-4 mission, which also included a competition to choose a name for the mission rover.
« Last Edit: 01/17/2019 05:56 pm by luhai167 »

Online eeergo

Re: Chang'e-4 lunar operations
« Reply #290 on: 01/16/2019 01:25 pm »
https://gbtimes.com/lunar-nighttime-brings-end-to-change-4-biosphere-experiment-and-cotton-sprouts

Temperature in the biocanister is -52ºC :O Some deep-frozen greens for dinner?

And just to confirm what was rumored a few days ago, only fruit fly eggs were carried, not silkworm eggs. No clear status on those though.
-DaviD-

Offline SciNews

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 819
  • Romania
  • Liked: 748
  • Likes Given: 7
Re: Chang'e-4 lunar operations
« Reply #291 on: 01/16/2019 01:56 pm »
It was mentioned in the description of the video posted above, but here is from Xinhua:
Quote
Professor Xie Gengxin, of Chongqing University and chief designer of the experiment, said a canister installed on the lander of the Chang'e-4 probe contained the seeds of cotton, rapeseed, potato, and arabidopsis, as well as eggs of the fruit fly and some yeast, to form a simple mini biosphere.
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-01/15/c_137745432.htm

Offline mcgyver

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 633
  • milan, rome
  • Liked: 182
  • Likes Given: 142
Re: Chang'e-4 lunar operations
« Reply #292 on: 01/18/2019 09:21 am »
About 3d models: for Hayabusa 2 mission I was able to build a 3d model of landing site on Ryugu using the descent footage and a free 3d stereophotogrammetry software (3df Zephyr).

I didn't have same luck with Chang'e4: SW successfully reconstructed position and orientation of the camera at each frame, but the reconstructed terrain is very coarse and imprecise.

Did anybody have better luck with this?
« Last Edit: 01/18/2019 12:22 pm by eeergo »

Offline mcgyver

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 633
  • milan, rome
  • Liked: 182
  • Likes Given: 142
Re: Chang'e-4 lunar operations
« Reply #293 on: 01/18/2019 01:54 pm »
These are the interactive maps:
Map 1
Map 2
Map 3
According to above sites, there are no narrow images (NAC) covering the area yet; such images should reach 30cm/pixel resolution and should allow a good 3d reconstruction of at least the biggest crater visible behind Yutu2, or at least a good anaglyph.

Offline Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17783
  • Liked: 10606
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: Chang'e-4 lunar operations
« Reply #294 on: 01/18/2019 04:00 pm »
http://www.leonarddavid.com/nasa-china-coordination-detailed-for-change-4-farside-mission/?fbclid=IwAR0L5H1ah_h4U2fMjzny5lpvJwVAGBQqUtMY--wt5j-DL_ZX_VM6AL1d7E8

"This past month, the article explains, NASA held discussions with the China National Space Administration (CNSA) to explore the possibility of observing a signature of the landing plume of their lunar lander, Chang’e 4, using the space agency’s Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter’s (LRO) LAMP instrument.

LAMP stands for Lyman Alpha Mapping Project, an ultraviolet imaging spectrograph instrument on LRO. LAMP was developed by the Southwest Research Institute.

“For a number of reasons, NASA was not able to phase LRO’s orbit to be at the optimal location during the landing, however NASA was still interested in possibly detecting the plume well after the landing,” explains the NASA-posted article. “Science gathered about how lunar dust is ejected upwards during a spacecraft’s landing could inform future missions and how they arrive on the lunar surface.”"

Offline Phil Stooke

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1549
  • Canada
  • Liked: 1688
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Chang'e-4 lunar operations
« Reply #295 on: 01/18/2019 05:22 pm »
"According to above sites, there are no narrow images (NAC) covering the area yet"

Here is a good NAC image of the area:

http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/lroc/view_lroc/LRO-L-LROC-2-EDR-V1.0/M134022629LE

There is another one with very low angle illumination.  So there are images already.
Professor Emeritus, University of Western Ontario. Space exploration and planetary cartography, historical and present. A longtime poster on
unmannedspaceflight.com (RIP - now archived at https://umsfarchive.com/index.php/), now posting content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke and https://discord.com/channels/1290524907624464394 as well as here. The Solar System ain't gonna map itself.

Offline mcgyver

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 633
  • milan, rome
  • Liked: 182
  • Likes Given: 142
Re: Chang'e-4 lunar operations
« Reply #296 on: 01/18/2019 05:54 pm »
"According to above sites, there are no narrow images (NAC) covering the area yet"

Here is a good NAC image of the area:

http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/lroc/view_lroc/LRO-L-LROC-2-EDR-V1.0/M134022629LE

There is another one with very low angle illumination.  So there are images already.
thanks, filtering by NAC I didn't get anything.

Offline Liss

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2040
  • Moscow, Russia
  • Liked: 1288
  • Likes Given: 121
Re: Chang'e-4 lunar operations
« Reply #297 on: 01/26/2019 09:06 am »
https://twitter.com/LiuyiYiliu/status/1087991835941916679

Chang'e 4 lander and Yu'tu Ⅱrover wake up in 26 Jan. The first science data publish in 1 Feb on this website: 202.106.152.98:8081/moondata/
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline Phil Stooke

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1549
  • Canada
  • Liked: 1688
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Chang'e-4 lunar operations
« Reply #298 on: 01/26/2019 06:04 pm »
I saw that tweet, but the 26th is too early - sun will not rise until the 28th and operations probably not until the 29th.
Professor Emeritus, University of Western Ontario. Space exploration and planetary cartography, historical and present. A longtime poster on
unmannedspaceflight.com (RIP - now archived at https://umsfarchive.com/index.php/), now posting content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke and https://discord.com/channels/1290524907624464394 as well as here. The Solar System ain't gonna map itself.

Offline Olaf

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3124
  • Germany
  • Liked: 1481
  • Likes Given: 455
Re: Chang'e-4 lunar operations
« Reply #299 on: 01/28/2019 03:00 pm »
I saw that tweet, but the 26th is too early - sun will not rise until the 28th and operations probably not until the 29th.
https://gbtimes.com/change-4-set-for-day-2-of-lunar-far-side-activities-with-sunrise-over-von-karman-crater
Quote
There have been no official updates from China regarding the mission for two weeks, but sunrise over the eastern edge of the crater began on January 28 according to Virtual Moon Atlas, suggesting that the Chang'e-4 craft will resume operations on or around the 29th, when the Sun will be higher in the sky to provide solar power to the spacecraft.

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
1